Found Deceased CA - Fang Jin, 47, flew to LA from China, train to Palm Springs, Morongo Basin, 21 Jul 2023, w/ John Root Fitzpatrick, 55, (fnd dec.), 30 Jul ‘23 #2

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To add to the discussion about JRF’s innocence or guilt in this situation, I think it’s worth remembering that he was a Navy Seal. It takes a certain kind of person to become a SEAL and this article sums it up pretty well.
  • Men who join the SEALs tend to be young men with a "high-level of aggression" who, through discipline, learn to refine their headstrong attitude and use it productively.
  • ”You're going to be risking your life; you're going to be shooting guns; your job is to kill people ... And your job is to take the risk of being killed."
www.businessinsider.com

A retired Navy SEAL commander explains the personality best-suited for life as a SEAL

Retired Navy SEAL commander Jocko Willink said that the type of young man drawn to the Navy SEALs is aggressive and independent. It's through the discipline of the SEALs that these traits can be honed constructively, rather than leading to trouble.
www.businessinsider.com www.businessinsider.com
 
ClaireNC said:
Thanks Mark. This is a very important bit of information. So there is no indication that they were actually camping? Or even hiking in that very hot weather.
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No there is even no prove at moment of 'they' ....so lets first wait for car examination and deep search ....and to determen the identification and death cause of John.
 
@mark1969 Thank you for continuing to share these pieces of this very bizarre puzzle with us. Did the police indicate what, if ant, belongings of Fang’s were found in the Fitzpatrick’s truck?
Have the police been able to provide the last ping location of Fang’s phone?
Do the police indicate if JRF had any camping equipment in his home?

I find it very odd that there was nothing to indicate they were camping / prepared for time in the desert. Here are a couple OF theories:

1. They did not have plans to camp at the time they went missing. Perhaps this was a day trip and they planned to return to JRF’s home or maybe they had intended to stay in a hotel/lodge/motel that night.

2. They set up camp elsewhere and then had driven to a different location to hike or perhaps went into town to get dinner. (I find this less likely as someone would have reported finding an abandoned campsite much earlier.)

I think LE has the full story, or close to the full story, and we just have to wait for it all to come out. I am sure there are extra measures being taken in this investigation given that Fang is a Chinese citizen on a tourist visa visiting ex-military coupled with with the anti-Chinese-government rhetoric on JRF’s LinkedIn account.

I am a big believer in Occam’s razor, but the more that comes out, the less likely I think it applies in this case. ☹️

All JMHO.
 
mark1969 said:
No there is even no prove at moment of 'they' ....so lets first wait for car examination and deep search ....and to determen the identification and death cause of John.
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Did police find anything of Fang’s in the truck? Any of her personal belongings? It sounds like her phone, wallet, and credit cards are also missing. While her luggage, passport and some cash were found at his house.

Was Fang the type to always carry a purse? Does she use a backpack when traveling? A travel wallet/passport holder that is worn under her clothes? Or does she put her phone and some key credit cards in her pocket?

When I travel internationally, I carry a copy of my passport with me but leave the actual passport in a safe place where I’m staying. I don’t carry a purse, but make sure to wear something with pockets for my ID, a credit card, a debit card and my phone.
 
@mark1969 , would you say these statements from that latest San Diego Union-Tribune article are accurate for last seen and heard from dates?

”She was last seen being picked up at the train station by a vehicle driven by Fitzpatrick, investigators said.”

”Fang was last heard from on July 22 after she spoke with her friend over the phone.”

——

I think you have told us the longtime friend of JRF’s met Fang on July 17, so that would have been after being picked up at the train station (on July 15).


Did DH tell you of his meeting Fang on the 17th, or did investigators tell you that? I’m just wondering why investigators gave the last seen date for the date she arrived in Palm Springs, and not the date she was seen by DH, which was later. Because it’s not verified to them?

And what of the July 22 statement where “she spoke with her friend over the phone”. I think we on this thread were never clear on this. Can you clarify this for us? Was this a text, or a call, or not accurate at all as you know it?

If ever you cannot tell us some things due to the ongoing investigation, you can just tell us you are unable to share that at this time, and we will understand, by the way.
 
ClaireNC said:
Thanks Mark. This is a very important bit of information. So there is no indication that they were actually camping? Or even hiking in that very hot weather.
Click to expand...
If they were camping though and something happened, wouldn't the camping stuff be maybe set up somewhere and not in the vehicle? I am just throwing out the idea that if they set up camp and something went very wrong, then maybe the things they would have brought to camp would be set up somewhere. Is there any remote camping areas in that area?
 
justtrish said:
If they were camping though and something happened, wouldn't the camping stuff be maybe set up somewhere and not in the vehicle? I am just throwing out the idea that if they set up camp and something went very wrong, then maybe the things they would have brought to camp would be set up somewhere. Is there any remote camping areas in that area?
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Yes, there are remote camping places throughout the area between Julian, Thermal, Salton Sea and Morongo Valley. But they were apparently sighted at an actual campground in Thermal. If they had abandoned their equipment there, I think LE would treat that as reason to change the status to involuntary missing, so I doubt that happened.

It's really uncommon to take all of one's equipment out of the vehicle for an overnight tent camp (over even for a couple of days). Things like the big jug of water that all desert campers need to take...stay in the vehicle (usually). Food storage is usually the vehicle, not the tent. Most people don't leave their cook stoves in camp while they're out sightseeing, either.

As for dispersed camping, well, that's a possibility too. There's BLM land nearby. I don't think they allow dispersed camping in Anza-Borrego State Park, though. Dispersed camping is when a person finds their own campsite - rules vary. In Death Valley you have to still park on the shoulder of the road and then camp so many feet away from the road. In other areas, you can actually drive your vehicle on forest roads and camp where ever you like. I doubt that they would have camped some place where they couldn't keep an eye on the truck. If he's at all familiar with the area, he'd want to keep an eye on his truck, I'd think.

IMO.
 
10ofRods said:
Yes, there are remote camping places throughout the area between Julian, Thermal, Salton Sea and Morongo Valley. But they were apparently sighted at an actual campground in Thermal. If they had abandoned their equipment there, I think LE would treat that as reason to change the status to involuntary missing, so I doubt that happened.

It's really uncommon to take all of one's equipment out of the vehicle for an overnight tent camp (over even for a couple of days). Things like the big jug of water that all desert campers need to take...stay in the vehicle (usually). Food storage is usually the vehicle, not the tent. Most people don't leave their cook stoves in camp while they're out sightseeing, either.

As for dispersed camping, well, that's a possibility too. There's BLM land nearby. I don't think they allow dispersed camping in Anza-Borrego State Park, though. Dispersed camping is when a person finds their own campsite - rules vary. In Death Valley you have to still park on the shoulder of the road and then camp so many feet away from the road. In other areas, you can actually drive your vehicle on forest roads and camp where ever you like. I doubt that they would have camped some place where they couldn't keep an eye on the truck. If he's at all familiar with the area, he'd want to keep an eye on his truck, I'd think.

IMO.
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Thank you for explaining all of this!

I am thinking of that longer trail that is near his truck. It seems like a beautiful peak trail that would have amazing views. This was the middle of summer so it doesn't make sense to hike that area then, but IF say they did and intended to make it an overnight then they'd take the equipment with them to set up for the night. Again, in 100+ degree heat why would they do that? I think my brain is just trying to come up with some reason for all of this that isn't the worst case scenario.
 
10ofRods said:
Yes, there are remote camping places throughout …
As for dispersed camping, well, that's a possibility too. There's BLM land nearby. I don't think they allow dispersed camping in Anza-Borrego State Park, though.
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RSBM
Anza-Borrego is 600,000 acres (-1000 sq. miles, the entire park, yes, anywhere) of dispersed camping. The nearly equally-vast bordering BLM lands lie mostly south of Harper Canyon.
 
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megs1477 said:
<modsnip - quoted post was removed>

Looking at a piece of paper that lists words does not tell you who a person is. You need context of those charges. You need to know what has happened since that time. People are allowed to change and recover, reform.
If you recall, he was in the Veterans treatment program. MANY veterans suffer with mental health and self treat with alcohol. Once they are able to overcome their addiction, they are able to treat their underlying issues and begin to heal as a person.
Imagine if someone took the worst mistake you ever made in your life and forever hung that over your head and defined you by that? It is unfair to judge the current person based off past mistakes with no context or evidence that they have done anything wrong at present.
All we know at this point is that he is an innocent victim as well until we receive evidence that shows otherwise.
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RBBM

So very true. One of my coworkers DH was a Vietnam vet. She told me every time he heard an loud noise, like a vehicle backfiring, he'd drop to the ground and cover his head.

Another vet I worked with turned to religion.

I can't even imagine what these people went through.

JMVHO.
 
justtrish said:
If they were camping though and something happened, wouldn't the camping stuff be maybe set up somewhere and not in the vehicle? I am just throwing out the idea that if they set up camp and something went very wrong, then maybe the things they would have brought to camp would be set up somewhere. Is there any remote camping areas in that area?
Click to expand...
Just to add to @10ofRods great explanation. When camping we leave most of your gear in the truck and only bring what is absolutely needed to the tent site. Food, water and things for cooking are kept in the truck, since we don’t want to attract animals to where we sleep. Unless, of course. we are doing a long hike to a campsite. Then it’s dry/dehydrated foods and lots of granola bars. Still there is extra gear left in the truck, just in case. I don‘t think these two were up for a long backcountry hike with temperatures up over 100.
 
This is an interesting post that describes a hike into Harper Canyon from a starting point just off Highway 78.


The author describes how far he could drive towards the canyon in his large truck before the road becomes impassible. There are also a lot of photos that give an idea of the area's desolation. The author says he didn't see anyone else the entire time he was there.

What strikes me is that this is not an area for the faint-hearted. It's not especially beautiful nor does it have any panoramic views (especially compared to some other areas nearby). And the scrambles over rocks and sand make the hiking quite difficult. I can't imagine ever bringing a tourist here unless they had expressed a strong interest in it and/or they were very comfortable hiking in desert environments.
 
sfinkz said:
RSBM
Anza-Borrego is 600,000 acres (-1000 sq. miles, the entire park, yes, anywhere) of dispersed camping. The nearly equally-vast bordering BLM lands lie mostly south of Harper Canyon.
Click to expand...

Thank you - good to know. However, I still doubt that JRF and JF were ready for dispersed camping away from the road (the truck must be one car length off the road; the camp must be at least 100 feet from any natural water supply - of which there are few out there).

So yes, they could have parked near the road and then hiked where ever they wanted, to set up camp. However, none of the pictures I've seen show camping equipment (such as backpacks) in the car nor is Jin Fang dressed for such an adventure (of course we have no pictures of her past the 21st, I believe).

And again, they would have needed to pack in water and all other necessities. No bathrooms, no spigots, no water. It takes preparation, especially in July and August.

I'd be curious to know if Fang brought shoes suitable to such an expedition. If they did the usual thing (camping just off the road) they'd still need plenty of water...and some food. Nothing was said about there being camping equipment in the truck when it was found.

But good to know (for personal reasons) that one can camp anywhere (we do dry camping, but usually up in the Sierra).

In theory, they could sleep in the bed of the truck, of course (one car length away from a road - which is a bit different than the way I picture dispersed camping). Or they could start hauling stuff to get further away from the road.

Thanks again for the correction!
 
mark1969 said:
"The police said they did not find enough water (bottles) or clothing or other camping stuf in the car ...even for a small camping or hiking outing"
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BetcBM

Can we all just take note of Mark's statement...

They were not camping in Anza-Borrego State Park

When JRF's remains were found I think we can believe the surrounding area was carefully searched for Fang....in saying this of course I'm aware it would've been difficult and historically people get missed in searches.

I think when Fang talked of her trip and going 'camping in the desert' that was a broad term for visiting...exploring the area.
 
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