Found Deceased CA - Fang Jin, 47, flew to LA from China, train to Palm Springs, Morongo Basin, 21 Jul 2023, w/ John Root Fitzpatrick, 55, (fnd dec.), 30 Jul ‘23 #2

[10ofRods]

I'm thinking on 7/21 JF and JRF were headed back to the mobile home. The truck was captured on camera in Thermal on 7/22. My concern is that something happened in the trailer with a 3rd party on the night of the 7/21. If JRF was killed that night and his body moved on 7/22, would that leave a smell of decomp? Have any articles stated what time of day that camera captured JRF's truck in Thermal? It would stand to reason JF may have been taken to the same area JRF was found, especially if her backpack was found in the area

If JRF was killed on the night of the 21st, it is nearly impossible for there to be a decomp smell (much less enough to persist for 10 days) after just 12 hours. Is JF also killed at the same time in this scenario?

Whoever died in that trailer, if they died at around midnight July 21-22, then a faint smell of decomp MIGHT have occurred by 12 noon on July 22. That would make it very rapid decomp, so we must posit that the mobile home had the A/C off. Why would someone linger in the mobile home for 12 hours, after murdering 1-2 people? Nothing is stolen (except, apparently, in this scenario - JRF's truck).

Average time to smelling decomp is 24-48 hours (24 in hotter climes and using data from average people doing the smelling). When a place still smells of decomp 10 days later, it's a safe bet that quite a lot of decomposition went on (although the mobile home is small and sealed off from the elements - so that's another variable).

Still, it's really really pushing the science to an unusual load level, using unusual probabilities, to say that there could have been time for decomp to be detectable at noon on the 22nd. Given the heat that day, I'd say it would have to be more like 18 hours (still pushing on the tables used by medical examiners - I wish I could find some tables just for desert conditions in that area - the actual medical examiners will have compiled their own, no doubt).

So in your view, what is JF doing while this is going on? JFR's truck is seen around 8 pm in Thermal, someone posted today. What has the third party done with JF? Is your view that JF was still alive during this? Whoever drove JF and JRF out to Harper Flat area did so without stealing her backpack and without taking her money from the mobile home.

They then had to walk to Highway 78 from the Harper Flat area. Sure seems to me more likely instead of someone dragging JRF 2 miles from where his truck was found, that JRF was still able to ambulate and got himself 2 miles away from the truck.

IMO. (I enjoy all the alternate theories - it's the only way we can get closer to knowing where people should be looking - with the goal right now to alert members of the public that if they find skeletonized remains out in any of these areas, to contact LE and particularly SBCSO). I hope reporters in the area are in daily contact with LE (unfortunately, Thermal is not in the same county as the last known location of JF, but hopefully reporters are in contact with all the various LE).

 

[10ofRods]

Also! Thinking more about known things. On the 16th JF and JRF were on camera shopping on the base. (Per the recent news article.) In order to drive onto the base, did JF show identification that was approved? She must have. As she was walking around shopping with JRF and caught on camera, she was not hidden while JRF was on base.

(There have been conversations on here about whether this base requires ID checks at the gate. It does. It is an active training base for Marines, frequently practicing bombing. (My anxious dog has many opinions about these bombings lol.) There is a whole fake city built out there to resemble a middle eastern city for Marines to practice combat. It is not a chill small base you can just enter unnoticed.)

But, per our VI, four minutes after JF's last video was sent on the night of 7/21, JRF was seen driving onto the base without JF. It would be basically impossible for JF to have been removed from the car in those four minutes, without her having been found by now. (Tight time window. They were on the main street in 29 Palms, with lots of traffic, people, shops, etc. It's not a place where a person or body could be dumped without that person or body being noticed quickly. If not that night, definitely the next day.)

So JRF most likely had JF hidden as he drove onto the base on the night of the 21st. Why? Why did he hide her on that visit, when she had already been on the base previously, and was documented and recorded as such?

There is no air strip suitable for bombers at the Marine/Navy facility in 29 Palms. Nor is here a bombable military-owned site nearby. There *are* maneuvers involving bombers in CA, but not actually dropping bombs. I feel you must be thinking of a differnet base - certainly no bombers flying out of 29 Palms - although if you have a source for that, I really want to see it. I figure they can land helicopters and there's one stretch of asphalt on the base where a small plane could land.

They may do bombing exercises at Camp Pendleton (but that's no where near Joshua Tree, Morongo or 29 Palms). And Edwards AFB (Air Force, not Navy) definitely has some amazing aerial training - not sure about bombing. I don't think there's federal bombing inside California, Nevada or Arizona - they do launch missiles into the Pacific, from time to time). I need to look into this more.

We have debated our various experiences with showing ID at military bases at length. I have many times been in the car of a properly permitted person, but no one checked my idea. Driver shows ID, states purpose of visit, we are waved through.

I don't think we've heard recent confirmation that anyone at all saw JRF drive onto the base that night. It's not in any LE reports, nor in MSM, and I think it was a theory, not a fact. Indeed, I don't think we even have confirmation that they went to the base that night - they could have been going to In N Out, for all we know.

LE states explicitly that the last known "interaction" with JF was on the night of the 21st, when she sent a video. No mention at all of them being seen that day at the base - even though another base visit was captured from surveillance. That makes me think there is no surveillance capturing an entry to the base on the night of the 21st.

To me, the simplest explanation is that they were out exploring Joshua Tree or points to its immediate west, that day. Beautiful region. They were coming back to Morongo, and had to drive through 29 Palms to get there. Simple as that. 29 Palms is on the way from the west entrance of JT to Morongo. Many people use 29 Palms as their base to explore JT.

It now occurs to me how odd it is that JF did not document the sights they saw on the 21st.

 

[slowpoke]

Are we sure the time stamps are correct on everything? Did she record the video earlier and then send it later? Also, if FJ left her passport at the trailer, would they even let her on base? Are there any CCTV of 29 Palms that were recovered? Is it possible she sent a video and messages that were recorded earlier while sitting in a bar or restaurant waiting on him? Did he do anything on base while there?

What IS the procedure for entry onto this specific base? I have no knowledge whatsoever on this.

Is there a sentry guard there round the clock? Do you check in with a specific military card that’s scanned? Are guests screened in some way, where there is their info written down for their records?

So, if JRF entered the base with Fang, would his entry record show she accompanied him? At the very minimum, surely there is a security camera there.

It is stated he entered the base at the exact same time Fang’s final night video was sent— is there any significance to that? Anything it might imply?

Just thoughts.

 

[Dhighsmith]

I love reading and learning from your posts.

We all do, daily online education.

 

[Dhighsmith]

What IS the procedure for entry onto the base? I have no knowledge whatsoever on this.

Is there a sentry guard there round the clock? Do you check in with a specific military card that’s scanned? Are guests screened in some way, where there is their info written down for their records?

So, if JRF entered the base with Fang, would his entry record show she accompanied him? At the very minimum, surely there is a security camera there.

It is stated he entered the base at the exact same time Fang’s final night video was sent— is there any significance to that? Anything it might imply?

Just thoughts.

We need to locate an online forum for the Marine base to obtain answers on security procedures for accessing base.

 

[ClaireNC]

I thought about this, but if you look at the 2 pictures, they are in the same place but the angles are different. In one there is a blue blanket like thing and another it is gone. Camera would be fixed. If an indoor camera, it also seems it is placed in a way that certainly doesn't capture a whole room like you would want. I think the stills are recorded from DH phone secretly. IMOO.

I noticed this too. These 2 photos were not taken from the same fixed location like they would be if it was a Ring camera.

 

[cenazoic]

Why would someone linger in the mobile home for 12 hours, after murdering 1-2 people?

I don’t know the why of it, but a notorious example of a killer doing just that (and eating several times to boot) is John List.

He killed his mother, wife, and three children, arranged their bodies, then ate supper and went to bed. Got up the next day and disappeared for 18 years.

/derail over

 

[slowpoke]

I wonder if the statement that trailer's "door was open" mean that it was literally open or just unlocked, perhaps slightly ajar.

If Fang Jin had, indeed, left behind in the trailer several thousand dollars in cash, then they would have locked the door when they left. If it was found unlocked and/or open in some way (slightly ajar or otherwise), then a suspect would have surely taken the cash as cash would be hard to trace.

Do we know if Fang Jin actually had cash currency in that high amount? If so, I assume it was U.S. cash and that if there was fowl play at the trailer - or someone at some point entered the trailer while they were missing and knew they were missing and not ever returning, then I think the cash would have been taken.

IRRC, you can bring in $10,000 in cash when you enter the U.S. from outside of the country. So Fang Jin may have brought a few thousand dollars in cash with her since she was planning on staying for 2-3 months.

Our VI said :
“Fang had a HUAWEI phone , about 4000 US$ cash and 3 credit cards”

I don’t know how much of it was found in JRF’s home by LE, but I think our VI said her cash was there.

 

[vereb]

LE states explicitly that the last known "interaction" with JF was on the night of the 21st, when she sent a video. No mention at all of them being seen that day at the base - even though another base visit was captured from surveillance. That makes me think there is no surveillance capturing an entry to the base on the night of the 21st.

Is it known when the last contact occurred prior to the one on the night of the 21st? The VI has expressed doubt about whether that video was actually sent by FJ, so if we for a moment assume it wasn't, how would that change the timeline?

 

[10ofRods]

We need to locate an online forum for the Marine base to obtain answers on security procedures for accessing base.

Here's a starting point:

Twentynine Palms (MCAGCC) | Base Overview & Info | MilitaryINSTALLATIONS

Find key information & resources for Twentynine Palms (MCAGCC) in California including contacts, important messages, directions, cost of living, and more.

installations.militaryonesource.mil

I can't find any dedicated Marine-only forums, so far. It seems to me that would be a risky thing for active duty to participate in. However, I do know that Navy wives often have forums (and use reddit and other places to organize them). But we need one that's specific to 29 Palms.

And here are the Base's rules for foreign nationals visiting:

MCAGCC Visitor Center

(scroll down - it's near the bottom).

So they do allow foreign visitors and that visitor needs a valid passport. Such visitors are not required to fulfill the other ID requirements expected of American citizens.

At the very bottom of that page, it presents simple instructions on how to get one's "guests" onto base and in what categories they can be.

 

[Ravenmoon]

There is no air strip suitable for bombers at the Marine/Navy facility in 29 Palms. Nor is here a bombable military-owned site nearby. There *are* maneuvers involving bombers in CA, but not actually dropping bombs. I feel you must be thinking of a differnet base - certainly no bombers flying out of 29 Palms - although if you have a source for that, I really want to see it. I figure they can land helicopters and there's one stretch of asphalt on the base where a small plane could land.

They may do bombing exercises at Camp Pendleton (but that's no where near Joshua Tree, Morongo or 29 Palms). And Edwards AFB (Air Force, not Navy) definitely has some amazing aerial training - not sure about bombing. I don't think there's federal bombing inside California, Nevada or Arizona - they do launch missiles into the Pacific, from time to time). I need to look into this more.

We have debated our various experiences with showing ID at military bases at length. I have many times been in the car of a properly permitted person, but no one checked my idea. Driver shows ID, states purpose of visit, we are waved through.

I don't think we've heard recent confirmation that anyone at all saw JRF drive onto the base that night. It's not in any LE reports, nor in MSM, and I think it was a theory, not a fact. Indeed, I don't think we even have confirmation that they went to the base that night - they could have been going to In N Out, for all we know.

LE states explicitly that the last known "interaction" with JF was on the night of the 21st, when she sent a video. No mention at all of them being seen that day at the base - even though another base visit was captured from surveillance. That makes me think there is no surveillance capturing an entry to the base on the night of the 21st.

To me, the simplest explanation is that they were out exploring Joshua Tree or points to its immediate west, that day. Beautiful region. They were coming back to Morongo, and had to drive through 29 Palms to get there. Simple as that. 29 Palms is on the way from the west entrance of JT to Morongo. Many people use 29 Palms as their base to explore JT.

It now occurs to me how odd it is that JF did not document the sights they saw on the 21st.

Okay, I lived in that area for more than 21 years.


You are correct that there were no aerial bombings.


But, the entire time we lived there, from 2000 until 2021, bombing exercises occurred. Sometimes, they were insane. When we lived on the Mesa, It seemed to be almost nightly. The sounds and shaking could get extremely intense.

JMO and experience.

 

[ch_13]

A few people are suggesting that the odor of decomp was made up by the cop to get a warrant, but I find the whole idea rather absurd.

If a cop submits a request for a warrant and the judge denies it, then why would the cop care? He's just doing his job and has no vested interest in the outcome. Why would he risk his livelihood over a missing couple, when in all likelihood they will turn up in a few days, as happens all the time? He'll just move on to his next assignment.

It was only because of the decomp odor that this case became a serious investigation. Without it, I doubt there would have even been a warrant request, at least not until JRF's truck and/or remains turned up.

The idea of a crusading cop who operates on hunches and is always breaking the rules to get the bad guy is best left to bad crime fiction.

 

[Ravenmoon]

There are at least 300 mines in JT.
I think that there are about 120 that are abandoned.
It's entirely possible that a person could be thrown down a mine shaft and never be found.

Disturbed Lands - Joshua Tree National Park (U.S. National Park Service)

www.nps.gov

 

[tvscum]

From a volunteer Search & Recue member , we got a message that Jin's backpack would have been found nearby the rd 78 (washed down by the Canyon rains ?) 2 or 3 miles from trailhead- Harper Canyon , his truck was on the other end of Harper Canyon, nearby Pinion Wash.... please all ... focus helping search in that location area for finding Jin Fang

^^^In order for FJ's backpack to be "washed down" toward Hwy 78 from the Harper Canyon trailhead, FJ (or her backpack) would have been located at some point in time in the general area where JRF's body was found:



JF told family members she was going camping, correct? Maybe the two simply drove to Anza Borrego (past the billboard) and ended up off-roading on Pinyon Mtn Rd. MOO. It would have taken a couple hours to drive there and cell phone signal would have been spotty through the Salton Sea area. Going through Anza Borrego, JRF's cell phone might have pinged in Julian.



This map below shows the on and off-road driving routes in yellow surrounding Harper Canyon/Flat. You cannot drive a truck onto Harper Flat itself from either Pinyon Wash (blocked by boulders) or from Pinyon Drop-Off area (blocked by a fence), I am told by a frequent camper. IMO it seems the truck became disabled either in Pinyon Wash or near Pinyon Drop-Off. (The date and location have not been reported). If the truck was damaged and disabled in Pinyon Wash, the logical direction to escape the area on foot would be north back to Hwy 78. On the other hand, if the truck was disabled near Pinyon Drop-off, the logical escape route would be toward Harper Flat and Harper Canyon.

The area to search for FJ depends on whether she walked WITH JRF up to Harper Canyon, or whether she stayed with the truck IMO. The backpack report (above) suggests she may have walked up Harper Canyon with him. MOO.



Edit: The other possibility is the remains are FJ's and her backpack washed down Harper Canyon from that body location. Or JRF was carrying FJ’s backpack.

 

[patternsfinder]

Okay, I lived in that area for more than 21 years.


You are correct that there were no aerial bombings.


But, the entire time we lived there, from 2000 until 2021, bombing exercises occurred. Sometimes, they were insane. When we lived on the Mesa, It seemed to be almost nightly. The sounds and shaking could get extremely intense.

JMO and experience.

Yes, the sound of bombing exercises is a constant fact of life in the area. Locals on Nextdoor frequently (sometimes jokingly sometimes not) call it the "sound of freedom."

But here's a source for anyone who doesn't believe locals reporting on local realities.

Regarding JRF's entrance to the base minutes after JF sent her video on the night of the 21st, that information comes from our VI. Here's one example of his sharing this information, which he has shared a few times now.

 

[slowpoke]

Is it known when the last contact occurred prior to the one on the night of the 21st? The VI has expressed doubt about whether that video was actually sent by FJ, so if we for a moment assume it wasn't, how would that change the timeline?

From our VI’s timeline (in part): (I also took out name of daughter)
—-
7/17
10hr26 – exchange Wechat messages with daughter Lin
Made a phone call to her Chinese friend who picked her up at airport, talked over 10 minutes & stated “everything is ok”
(by Decalaration of Daryl Hoss we know that Daryl visited the trailer home where John and Fang were staying)

7/18 - No contact, photos or videos this day

7/19 - Visited more scenic sites in the area, sending videos & photos. Fang tried to contact her daughter E in Belgium but E was not able to answer her call.

7/20 - Same as 7/19
—-

I’m not sure if on 7/20 saying “same as 7/19” means Fang tried to again contact her daughter that day, too? Does it mean on the receivers’ end it showed “missed call”?

But, If going by who actually heard her voice or saw her besides JRF under your hypothetical—based on VI’s provided timeline, it would be on 7/17: The friend on a 10-min call where she told him “Everything is ok”, and DH, who reportedly visited JRF’s home that day.

 

[10ofRods]

Is it known when the last contact occurred prior to the one on the night of the 21st? The VI has expressed doubt about whether that video was actually sent by FJ, so if we for a moment assume it wasn't, how would that change the timeline?

I believe she was in contact with family on the 20th. However, if we're going to doubt that the Chinese language message sent to family and friends on 7/21 was some kind of fake, then why not say the same about the silent stills sent with brief messages prior to that date? I do not think we've heard of any voice contact with JF.

However, she sends pictures of herself in the California desert. Are there any actual selfies or are all of them with JRF? I can't remember. Her phone takes a picture of him and his truck posed dramatically next to a Joshua Tree (I think it was Joshua Tree) and that goes out to family and friends - she's not in it, though. However, to me, it's one of her series of "romantic" shots of John - they were having a good time, from the looks of things.

What I want to know is why LE went to the mobile home before August 1 (it's listed right after events of the 22nd are mentioned in the search warrant application). When was that visit? DH says he saw them on the 17th.

LE sees the mobile home occupant and "an Asian woman" on their July visit. Is it implied that that was the 22nd? It certainly isn't the August 1 visit.

Why does the one neighbor think that JFR is volatile? (naturally, members of the Morongo community have spoken out on various newspaper forums about their view of him - the police report from his food delivery incident has been pubilshed a couple of times in local newspapers).

As for the "door found open" statement in the search warrant, well. Was there probable cause for that LEO to open a door without a warrant? If the door is actually standing open, I believe precedent in CA is that the officer can stick their head in, lean into the room, look around and call for the owner. If no one answers, they can't just go in. If the officer *did* decide to open an unlocked door (and the door was closed when he approached), he ought to have gotten permission from his immediate superior before turning that door knob.

Instead, he reports "door open and smell of decomp." IOW, without going inside, he can tell something is amiss. The first SW is approved rather quickly (just a couple of hours?) IME, during that time when police first arrive (I'll bet a lot of scones that two officers went out there, already alert to the missing person's report and the concern of Fang's family). While they waited for the Judge to sign the warrant, they probably walked all around the outside, looked at whether landscaping had been installed recently or at all, and...spoke to neighbors. And it's possible that the neighbors came out and sought to talk to the officers. Very common.

The door being reported as "open" if it was actually closed is very poor report writing. It also implies that someone left the mobile home and did not shut the door - perhaps to air it out? That surely must be what the LEO's thought at the time.

SPECULATION.

 

[LucyOso]

A few people are suggesting that the odor of decomp was made up by the cop to get a warrant, but I find the whole idea rather absurd.

If a cop submits a request for a warrant and the judge denies it, then why would the cop care? He's just doing his job and has no vested interest in the outcome. Why would he risk his livelihood over a missing couple, when in all likelihood they will turn up in a few days, as happens all the time? He'll just move on to his next assignment.

It was only because of the decomp odor that this case became a serious investigation. Without it, I doubt there would have even been a warrant request, at least not until JRF's truck and/or remains turned up.

The idea of a crusading cop who operates on hunches and is always breaking the rules to get the bad guy is best left to bad crime fiction.

Respectfully...I think the posts are more curiosity about the legal system by people...like can you get a faster warrant if decomposition smell is present or same timeline. Do you need something like suspected decomposition to get a warrant? Does a smell allow immediate access to search similar to if LE saw a potential body through a window or a bunch of bongs or kilo of dope or a herd of starving goats through a window? Reasonable cause? I don't know the terms. IMOO I read nothing about people suggesting LE lied or cops risking their livelihood or doing illegal things, that is your interpretation. No one is posting anything absurd. People are just trying to learn how the process works.

 

[Ravenmoon]

I keep thinking about Thermal, and what/who is there.

If you recall, a Sleuth did some incredible work to identify the likely location of one of the car pics. You can view that analysis in this post.

Per the map, for whatever reason, JRF and JF drove out towards Indio/Thermal/etc on July 16th. The image has them driving West on the 10, likely back towards the 62, which leads up to Morongo Valley.

Why, on JF's first full day visiting, did they drive out there? There's no real reason for that to be a place to take a tourist, let alone on their first day in the area. Also the recent news article confirms that both JF and JRF are on camera shopping on the base on the 16th. Driving from JRF's home to the base is a notable drive in one direction, but where they were on camera on the 10, on the same day, is in the opposite direction.

Does JRF have some friend he wanted to visit, who lives near Thermal? DH? Or someone else? Did he go back to visit whomever on the 22nd while deciding what to do?

I'm sure LE has much more information about all of this. But for some reason JRF felt it important to drive out that way on JF's first day.

I have really tried to think about what is out there in the area.

The only thing that I can think of is casinos.

Everything else would be visits for daytime excursions.

JMO

 

[Megnut]

Looking for a side by side of JRF as seen in previous sources and the JRF/the man in JF's photos.

Anyone?