Found Deceased CA - Fang Jin, 47, flew to LA from China, train to Palm Springs, Morongo Basin, 21 Jul 2023, w/ John Root Fitzpatrick, 55, (fnd dec.), 30 Jul ‘23 #3

[ClaireNC]

Perhaps someone already stated this, but to me it is noteworthy that DH reported they were going to A-B Park, and that is, indeed, where the truck and JRF were found. That, to me, is unexpected when contemplating foul play. My impression is, if a cover-up is involved, an attempt to make people disappear, more often that involves taking them where they are not expected to be.

BBM... Where did you find this info?? I didn't know he said that.<modsnip>

I had the same reaction when I read Cedars comment so I went back through the articles. I think that statement came from this quote:
“Hoss said he reported his friend missing when Fitzpatrick didn’t return from an extended camping trip to the desert state park. He said he usually wouldn’t be worried because his friend was well trained to survive in rough terrain.” Mystery surrounds missing San Bernardino man found dead in Anza-Borrego state park

In that article DH is already aware of where John’s truck and remains were found. We don‘t know if he mentioned the destination to LE when he filed the report, or, he just said ‘they had plans to go camping’ without giving a destination. It would be really good to get clarity on that.

 

[Sarah McGregor]

I can't see any logical way JRF and JF went out there, even for a day drive, let alone a hike or off road adventure, without notable amounts of water in the truck. And as LE has informed us, there was no notably water in the truck.

BBM

If the car was disabled and they attempted to walk to safety, why would they leave any water in the truck?

 

[Cedars]

I had the same reaction when I read Cedars comment so I went back through the articles. I think that statement came from this quote:
“Hoss said he reported his friend missing when Fitzpatrick didn’t return from an extended camping trip to the desert state park. He said he usually wouldn’t be worried because his friend was well trained to survive in rough terrain.” Mystery surrounds missing San Bernardino man found dead in Anza-Borrego state park

In that article DH is already aware of where John’s truck and remains were found. We don‘t know if he mentioned the destination to LE when he filed the report, or, he just said ‘they had plans to go camping’ without giving a destination. It would be really good to get clarity on that.

Thanks, that is one of the quotes that gave me that impression. Later on, in the same article, it states
"The plan was for Fitzpatrick to show Fang around the Morongo Basin before the two headed into the state park to camp in an unknown location, according to investigators."

I'm taking it at face value. I don't enjoy twisting in the wind of perpetual suspicion.

JMO

 

[flowershop]

BBM

If the car was disabled and they attempted to walk to safety, why would they leave any water in the truck?

Another WSer posted a few days ago that when they make a trip into the remote desert they bring a large container of water. I am picturing something that holds at minimum 5 gallons like those large Igloo containers with a spigot that construction workers and athletes frequently use. Perhaps this is even too small.

 

[deadfoot13]

I'm trying to think of an explanation for why JF wouldn't answer her phone if she did in fact have a signal and the phone was ringing. Possibly the phone was set to vibrate and she didn't notice it ringing, but that would only explain it for a few hours.

Is it possible that she and JRF made a conscious decision to "get away from it all" and go out into the desert without using their phones? I'd expect someone to give their family and friends some warning before doing that ("I'm going to the desert for a few days and won't be answering calls") but maybe not.

Possibly broken? I dropped my phone last night on a ceramic tile floor and the screen shattered and turned black. It rings if someone calls, but I can't answer it and can't make calls because I can't get in to see my contact list or keypad. I'm still getting texts and messages because I can hear it beeping, but I can't get in to view any of them, either.

MOO.

 

[Herat]

I had the same reaction when I read Cedars comment so I went back through the articles. I think that statement came from this quote:
“Hoss said he reported his friend missing when Fitzpatrick didn’t return from an extended camping trip to the desert state park. He said he usually wouldn’t be worried because his friend was well trained to survive in rough terrain.” Mystery surrounds missing San Bernardino man found dead in Anza-Borrego state park

In that article DH is already aware of where John’s truck and remains were found. We don‘t know if he mentioned the destination to LE when he filed the report, or, he just said ‘they had plans to go camping’ without giving a destination. It would be really good to get clarity on that.

I note the use of the phrase "extended camping trip" in the quote.

So far I haven't seen indications that there was "extended camping" as LE has not reported them missing from one of the more common camping areas there, nor have they reported finding any camping gear.

 

[Cedars]

I hope it's OK to post this video since it's just of the flooding in Anza-Borrego during Hilary on August 20:

Would that carry a truck/remains/backpack a long distance? Difficult to say.

I feel doubtful that was filmed during the storm. I don't see evidence it was raining or windy at the time.

The footage also doesn't show the water coming off something steep. During a storm, heavy rain coming off a steep mountain could be almost a waterfall, vs later, saturated sand slowly releasing water over a fairly flat plain.

JMO

 

[Jade]

Do you have evidence the officer writing the warrant has ever smelled decomp before and is not confusing it with the musty smell of an old trailer or that of a dead rodent?

Why would that be necessary?

Nowhere does it state that Det. C said he smelled human decomposition.

“>while inside Crowel located items belonging to Jin and the odor of decomposition.”

The fact that decomposition was smelled was simply stated as is proper in an investigation.

Pages 6 & 7 further describes that there “may” be evidence for probable cause of a Felony [or Felonies] and it’s signed by a Judge.

“The Affiant may need to have a forensic specialist>>”

https://interactive.cbs8.com/pdfs/fitzpatrick_search_warrant.pdf

IMO, “a Forensic Specialist” is who will be the one saying what any smells are officially.

I appreciate the Detective doing his sworn duty in this case. FJ’s far away family is counting on Det. C to help find out what happened to her.

Det. Crowell is a long time resident of Morongo Basin so he knows high desert conditions.

TBID under fire at lengthy Twentynine Palms City Council meeting - Z107.7 FM Joshua Tree


imo

 

[cenazoic]

Do you have evidence the officer writing the warrant has ever smelled decomp before and is not confusing it with the musty smell of an old trailer or that of a dead rodent?

Please see the search warrant under “Expertise of Affiant”, which details Det. Bengard’s expertise, and the ‘Homicide Attachment”.

Basically, based on the above, it’s reasonable to assume the decomp was human; certainly two or more LEOs thought so. Do you have evidence that it wasn’t?

 

[mark1969]

BBM... Where did you find this info?? I didn't know he said that. <modsnip>

This is wrong info ....in our direct interview with DH(R) , he stated that FJ and JRF must be found in Marinebase in 29 palms ... in another statement from LE they said there was prove that the small village in desert would be in Lucerne and Johnson valley areas.... totally oppossit direction north as Harper south.....

 

[wary]

I'm sure it was. It's just a huge surrounding area and the entire LE population of the region is very small. Does Julian even have a police department? Or is it SDCSO?

A very hard area to search. And there was no widespread attempt to get the word out about the truck. LE probably felt they had good reasons not to make everyone with a blue Tacoma a suspicious person in SoCal.

IMO

Julian has a SD County sheriff’s substation. And
I feel confident that it’s simply a community within the county, not a city.

 

[Centaurus]

If the LEO's thought they smelled decomposition, does anyone know if they brought in cadaver dogs? Does anyone know what is standard practice when an officer smells decomp?

 

[nao]

Moo...I do not believe police have finely tuned noses. If you smell decomposition you know something is dead. A dog maybe able to distinguish human from other, but few people could. I smelt dead deer, seals, rodents without a visual I wouldn't know what they are. Humans are mammals so can't be to much different smell...moo

 

[Sillybilly]

from the National Library of Medicine Center for Biotechnology Information

The smell of death is constituted by a blend of chemical compounds changing over time and according to animal remains [8]–[9], [14]. Indeed, a recent study has shown that the odor of human remains is different from that of animals [13].

 

[Megnut]

FWIW the LEO didn't differentiate. He didn't report human decomp....

IMO this was a case of two missing persons, associated with each other, where a family overseas was very alarmed.

Adults have the right to go missing.

Adults have the right and the reasonable assurance that, in their free absence, LE isn't going to barge in and violate one's right to privacy, regarding domecile, banking, cellphone, GPS, etc, etc.

Unless there's reason to consider foul play.

Whether that decomp came from spoilt food, rodentia or a human cadaver, that there was any scent at all, goes a long way to secure probable cause of foul play.

Stands to reason. Even if we're talking about rotted lettuce or week old salmon, if I hadn't been heard from for a time and LE followed up with a wellness check, finding a scent of organic decomp, PLEASE I want them to investigate further!!! I wouldn't have left it there if I were planning to be gone awhile!

All this to underscore my point -- any scent of decomp is compelling. Thank goodness LE was able to cross the foul play threshold, securing the warrant.

JMO

 

[cenazoic]

Thank goodness LE was able to cross the foul play threshold, secure the warrant.

I could be reading the warrant wrong, but I think they already had a warrant when they showed up on the 1st and found the door open/smell. They were there to find and/or talk to JF and JRF, and look for specific belongings of JF’s.

I think the circumstances they discovered led to the issuance of the second warrant, which hasn’t been made public.

 

[Cedars]

I could be reading the warrant wrong, but I think they already had a warrant when they showed up on the 1st and found the door open/smell. They were there to find and/or talk to JF and JRF, and look for specific belongings of JF’s.

I think the circumstances they discovered led to the issuance of the second warrant, which hasn’t been made public.

IMO, they first off conducted a welfare check.

The door was open, so detective was able to enter without a warrant, look around to check 'the wellbeing of anyone inside and the security of the residence'*, notice things, but not touch or take anything.

IMO, to enter through a closed or locked door, do a hands-on search and then take things away, requires a warrant.

*From probable cause of the 1st warrant

JMO

 

[10ofRods]

Probably a silly question, but how common is it for LE to flat out lie rather than say something like "No Comment"?

I ask because of this article from Thursday August 10:

Authorities confirm link in two missing person cases in Morongo Basin - KESQ

Two missing person cases out of the Morongo Basin area are linked, authorities confirmed to News Channel 3 on Thursday.

kesq.com

Wednesday would have been August 9, over a week since the search warrant was executed at JRF's trailer. I realize it would take some time for test results to come back, but presumably if they had found an obvious "smoking gun" a criminal investigation would have been opened pretty quickly.

So was nothing found? Were they awaiting test results? Or was the Sheriff's Department lying?

How would we know if a criminal investigation was underway? I would assume that it's already a criminal investigation (that's what it's called when a situation is investigated to see if a crime has been committed; we have the homicide attachment to the search warrant). So I'd say it looks like a criminal investigation already, to me.

Found Deceased - CA - Fang Jin, 47, flew to LA from China, train to Palm Springs, Morongo Basin, 21 Jul 2023, w/ John Root Fitzpatrick, 55, (fnd dec.), 30 Jul ‘23 #2

Search warrant mentioned SD card from Ring Cam. As someone who owns Ring Cams, the photos of JF cleaning look like they were taken from a Ring Cam. Regarding statement in Search Warrant "Deputies were in the Roadrunner Mobile Home Park and spoke to Fitzpatrick, who had an unknown Asian female...

www.websleuths.com

An officer described the car as "pretty wrecked."

I wasn't at all suggesting water containers would be destroyed. As I mentioned at the end of the post you quoted, if the containers had been washed away, would anyone recognise them as having belonged to JF or JRF if they were later found somewhere in the desert? They probably could have been discarded by anyone.

I was making the assumption that the water containers would have been in the truck bed. And, I do think any water containers found in that drainage after the body was found there could be examined and the approximate date of their deposition could be determined. Someone who knows JRF would also have seen such cannisters, if he had them regularly (but it appears he did not, which is so puzzling).

"Pretty wrecked" or "pretty banged up" is less dramatic than "totalled" to me. Those are two terms used regularly by nearly everyone in SoCal, and "totalled" happens with about half the damage that one might expect (repairs are super expensive - that truck was, I think, relatively late model -2020?). So I have to picture something less than totalled. "Pretty wrecked" means (to me) that visible damage was done to the body. If the axle were broken, I do think that might have been mentioned.

I'm thinking it's consistent with the truck being in moving water - and some of the rocks were probably pretty good sized. Anyway, I think it happened after JRF's death (I do not think he was alive in the third week of August). And I don't think there were water containers to be found.

But if canisters had been found in that wash, I think the investigators would have a good idea about how long the canisters were there. They would likely find JRF's DNA on them if they belonged to him. I also think that JRF's body was moved in the same process, which makes me wonder if he was originally higher up and never walked into the canyon/wash - simply was found there. That could account for part of the rapid skeletonization.

Of course it's still possible that he did walk into that Canyon and somehow die there (hyperthermia would be my guess). If the truck damage was from an actual wreck while the truck was being driven, then it would be hyperthermia and dehydration following an accident. For whatever reason, JRF exited the truck. I think it's entirely possible the truck was still in working order before the rains.

I'm sorry if I misunderstood you. I still can't wrap my mind around the fact that no significant water was found in the cab of the truck. And apparently, no clothing (hard to believe there are enough animals out there to cart it all off - hopefully the planned searches will turn up more clues).

All speculation on my part.

 

[Cedars]

Probably a silly question, but how common is it for LE to flat out lie rather than say something like "No Comment"?

I ask because of this article from Thursday August 10:

Authorities confirm link in two missing person cases in Morongo Basin - KESQ

Two missing person cases out of the Morongo Basin area are linked, authorities confirmed to News Channel 3 on Thursday.

kesq.com

Wednesday would have been August 9, over a week since the search warrant was executed at JRF's trailer. I realize it would take some time for test results to come back, but presumably if they had found an obvious "smoking gun" a criminal investigation would have been opened pretty quickly.

So was nothing found? Were they awaiting test results? Or was the Sheriff's Department lying?

From other cases, IMO police are not lying, they are being precise.

From what I have seen, there is a formal process within LE, of assigning which department is investigating a case. A Missing Persons case is investigated by general police officers. A criminal or homicide case is transferred over to a major crimes unit.

Even though homicide detectives/resources may be called in to help, that is just one aspect of the missing person investigation. As long as there are other possibilities, it is not an exclusively criminal investigation.

IMO, this means the evidence collected so far has been inconclusive.

This is a typical headline showing the process:.
Missing woman's case turns into homocide investigation

JMO

ETA, IMO this is not just weasel words from LE. They have a huge responsibility to stick to provable facts, that will stand up in court.

If LE were going around declaring that cases were homicides, that later turned out not to be homicides, their status as reliable witnesses in court would be undermined. When LE declare a crime was committed, that's not just a hunch, it's truth.


JMO

 

[Interested_But_Confused]

I feel doubtful that was filmed during the storm. I don't see evidence it was raining or windy at the time.

The footage also doesn't show the water coming off something steep. During a storm, heavy rain coming off a steep mountain could be almost a waterfall, vs later, saturated sand slowly releasing water over a fairly flat plain.

JMO

In which case the flooding during the storm would presumably be even worse and more powerful than that?

From other cases, IMO police are not lying, they are being precise.

From what I have seen, there is a formal process within LE, of assigning which department is investigating a case. A Missing Persons case is investigated by general police officers. A criminal or homicide case is transferred over to a major crimes unit.

Even though homicide detectives/resources may be called in to help, that is just one aspect of the missing person investigation. As long as there are other possibilities, it is not an exclusively criminal investigation.

IMO, this means the evidence collected so far has been inconclusive.

This is a typical headline showing the process:.
Missing woman's case turns into homocide investigation

JMO

ETA, IMO this is not just weasel words from LE. They have a huge responsibility to stick to provable facts, that will stand up in court.

If LE were going around declaring that cases were homicides, that later turned out not to be homicides, their status as reliable witnesses in court would be undermined. When LE declare a crime was committed, that's not just a hunch, it's truth.


JMO

Thank you, that's pretty much what I had always thought. To say, over a week after they searched the trailer, that it wasn't a criminal investigation and there were no suspects, would it be fair to say they probably didn't find something immediately recognisable and definitive?

For example if they did find blood or other human tissue and fluid that would suggest foul play, wouldn't the case be deemed criminal almost immediately? At the very least someone would have moved a body, even if the death itself could have been accidental or natural.