CA - Hannah,16,Devonte,15,&Ciera Hart,12 (fnd deceased),Mendocino Cty,26 Mar 2018 #5

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I'm not saying anything new here, as this is implicit in what all of you have written... There's a big difference between having similar outward values, and having similar outward values fueled by old wounds, and acting out those wounds in how you represent and impose your values on others.

I do think it's important to reserve some empathy for the two women, purely on the possibility that they were trying to rescue themselves from their own demons through the kids, and running away from their responsibilities whenever they were confronted with the futility of remothering their way out. Not because that mitigates the reprehensibility of what they did, but because a lot of kids with untreated attachment disorders end up being adults with untreated personality disorders, which just perpetuates the cycle.

And (again, strictly IME) the only thing worse than having an untreated personality disorder as an adult is recognizing how toxic you can be, undertaking the often futile search for affordable, effective treatment that will address your issues, and constantly hitting up against the perceived message that- on a larger social level- you are not worth helping. Jen's comment about everything feeling like a "proceed no further" sign, as dramatic as it was, seems like one of the few honest things she put on social media. But even so, the point where they conflated the value of these six children with whatever devaluation they felt personally, is the point where empathy leaves the room.
Yes, in reality the Hart women had no heart. Anger issues, controlling, strict discipline, not so much lifestyle IMO but more personal issues, maybe Jen was bipolar.

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Previous, many previous posts, are all about these kids how they should be eating normal, socializing, driving, working, homeschooling is no good / is isoloation, kids not playing basketball or riding bikes, or even not being loud and noisy.

Normal meaning.......normal. Normal pregnancies, normal birth, normal parents and upbringing, normal family and stability. No tradegy and no sibling and parental separation.

Are you suggesting that these six kids, without exception, were so abnormal that they couldn't do any of the things you listed. All six of them?

I don't think people are suggesting here that the kids didn't have problems ongoing from their early life, but that they were extraordinarily isolated and limited in what they were allowed to do (outside of their parents' own interests and hobbies, that is). Having a "difficult" kid is not an excuse to lock them up or limit them socially.
 
Actually, the girl on the left looks skeletal to me.

In my original post, I mentioned that it looked to me like the photo had been edited to increase the contrasting of light/shadow significantly, which may be a reason the kids look so gaunt, but that if this is natural light, they just look underweight. Not sure why you removed that part from your repost, but I agree with you.
 
Every tide has the potential of bringing in another child from the ocean. I hope someone is checking the shore daily.
 
Yes, in reality the Hart women had no heart. Anger issues, controlling, strict discipline, not so much lifestyle IMO but more personal issues, maybe Jen was bipolar.

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Bipolar disorder is extremely difficult to diagnose, even for professionals who are actually dealing with a patient in real life. Jen may have been selfish and evil and small (among other things - and those are not mental illnesses nor do they have anything to do with bipolar disorder), but we have no way of knowing her medical history or diagnoses at this time and making a wild guess and labeling her bipolar perpetuates stigma.
 
I really wish that I could understand the logic of those that think that these 6 kids came wired as normal with no issues whatsoever. Before even reaching the Hart household.

I do not even think any psychology background is needed to truly understand this.

Smh

I think what is under question is if the kids were really *so* damaged, why on earth would the women not reach out for any and all help available. Not even within their own festival social circle. Therapy, support groups, ANYTHING.
 
More on the petition started by a 'former' family friend calling for a National Child Abuse Registry that allows state agencies immediate access to prior reports of abuse.
http://katu.com/news/local/punishme...-family-friend-seeks-change-to-honor-children
Earlier coverage from AP of the same lady's account and what she described as 'unnecessarily cruel punishment she witnessed while living with the family for two weeks in 2013 (She reported it back then) : http://katu.com/news/local/woman-says-she-reported-cruel-treatment-by-jennifer-and-sarah-hart
 
Every tide has the potential of bringing in another child from the ocean. I hope someone is checking the shore daily.

No word yet on the identity of the girls body found? It seems likes it’s taking a long time.
 
Yes, in reality the Hart women had no heart. Anger issues, controlling, strict discipline, not so much lifestyle IMO but more personal issues, maybe Jen was bipolar.

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There have been "blips" here and there that suggest Jen was raised in a very similar environment to how she was raising the kids. When I say empathy, I don't mean sympathy. I.e. I mean "I think it's important to understand how these women got to be the way they were, especially if their behavior was not a forgone conclusion when they were born. Because if they were "nurtured" to be this way, that means there was a time when intervention could have lead to proper treatment for their mental health issues, they could have pursued any innate inclination to adopt children in a healthy way, and the kids they adopted would be alive today." Sympathy would be saying, "Oh, poor Jen. Look how hard she had it with all those kids." There is not an atom in my body that feels sympathy for her. Or for Sarah, after watching the videos.

I also extend the same reasoning to their birth mother. She deserved much better circumstances than the ones that lead to the place she ended up when the kids were taken away from her. The fact that the birth mother is distraught, as the aunt reports, suggests a strong love for her children. That's the real tragedy in this. Even acknowledging some empathy for the Hart women, I feel like the mother and aunt are owed as much public support as can be mustered from those of us concerned with the case (without invading their privacy).Law enforcement agencies should also be putting all the mobilization power they have into search and rescue efforts for the kids that are still missing. IMO.
 
Argyropolous has started a petition to the White House for a nationalized child protection registry, so that CPS departments in different states can communicate with each other and get alerts about previous abuse charges. Not sure if I'm allowed to link to it her, but it's pretty easy to find.
The Child Abuse Prevention and Treatment Act (2010) https://www.acf.hhs.gov/sites/default/files/cb/capta2010.pdf calls for "Sec. 103. NATIONAL CLEARINGHOUSE FOR INFORMATION RELATING TO CHILD ABUSE. [42 U.S.C. 5104]a. ESTABLISHMENT.—The Secretary shall through the Department, or by one or more contracts of not less than 3 years duration let through a competition, establish a national clearinghouse for information relating to child abuse and neglect."A national clearinghouse was established in 1974 https://www.childwelfare.gov/more/? IMO, this needs to publicized.National Clearinghouse link https://cbexpress.acf.hhs.gov/index.cfm?event=website.viewArticles&issueid=46&articleid=715
 
Bipolar disorder is extremely difficult to diagnose, even for professionals who are actually dealing with a patient in real life. Jen may have been selfish and evil and small (among other things - and those are not mental illnesses nor do they have anything to do with bipolar disorder), but we have no way of knowing her medical history or diagnoses at this time and making a wild guess and labeling her bipolar perpetuates stigma.
We have no way knowing a lot of things but I see lots of speculating here in an effort to understand why people behave as they do. Everyone wants to know why and we are all speculating. My ex was diagnosed bipolar and it was no fun. Certain triggers would change his mood completely. And I said maybe she was bipolar. I think Im allowed to speculate.

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We have no way knowi g a lit of things but I See lots of speculating in an ecfort to understand what people behave as they do. E eryone wants to know why and we are all speculating. My ex was diagnosed bipolar and it was no fun. Certain triggers would change his mood completely. And I said maybe she was. I think Im allowed to speculate.

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Not without some factual basis for the speculation, and we have nothing to suggest Jen had bipolar disorder or was ever treated for any mental illness.
 
Previous, many previous posts, are all about these kids how they should be eating normal, socializing, driving, working, homeschooling is no good / is isoloation, kids not playing basketball or riding bikes, or even not being loud and noisy.

Normal meaning.......normal. Normal pregnancies, normal birth, normal parents and upbringing, normal family and stability. No tradegy and no sibling and parental separation.

Food was being withheld as punishment. The children were removed from school as a direct result of reports of abuse being made to authorities. And again, I'm not entirely sure what is meant by the word "normal" or by who's standards.

That the children had challenging behaviors that could have stressed adult caretakers has been the focus of most of this discussion in a topic thread about children being beaten, starved, publicly humiliated and murdered.
 
There seems to be a lot of interest in the circumstances of the removal of Devonte and his siblings from their birth family but none in the removal of Markus and his siblings from theirs. I guess even in death they come in last.

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I haven't heard anything about the other family and I'm just a hater of what I've seen out of Texas CPS I'm in Dallas and it seems like I have seen a million stories in the news of foster families killing kids here , its almost if they give them to anyone and they seem to take them away from the natural family even when family members step up and say please let them stay in the Family ...
 
Just because there are Black professionals (or other non/white people ) involved doesn't mean racism is absent. Black people (or other non/white people ) can help uphold the affects and institutionalized power of racism against black people (or other non/white people ) too.


IMO

YES YES YES I don't know why people have such a hard time with this but SO true and you explained SO well , THANK YOU!
 
Even if they didn't have full blown personality disorders, this is some fascinating reading, imo, about why unhealthy opposites attract.

Someone kept an obsessively clean house. Someone craved the center of attention, no matter how unbelievable or gruesome the story. Imho.

http://www.apa.org/monitor/mar04/mixing.aspx
Personality schisms, however, can complicate such attempts. Even if only one partner has a full-blown PD, the other partner often shows personality tendencies in the opposite direction, notes Los Angeles psychologist Marion Solomon, PhD, who wrote a chapter on treating borderline couples for a book Kaslow edited on couples treatment (see further reading). Most often, Kaslow and Solomon see attractions between people diagnosed with Cluster B (antisocial, borderline, histrionic and narcissistic) and Cluster C (avoidant, dependent and obsessive-compulsive) personality disorders.

Kaslow offers a theory on the attraction between Clusters B and C: "Someone in Cluster B or C will more likely seek a polar opposite they see as exhibiting qualities they lack and assume this will make them feel more complete or whole," she explains. "So, for example, the histrionic is attracted to the OCD perfectionist because of the histrionic's need to be stabilized, and the OCD person is fascinated by the histrionic's devil-may-care attitude. But after a while they start to rub each other the wrong way."

Fatal attraction

Problems derive from each partner's unexpected reaction to the other, Kaslow says. She explains: "These people often literally see the other person as 'their other half.' But that half is one they have cut off in themselves, so they're essentially attracted to the thing they've rejected or have a negative attitude toward."

Exacerbating the situation is the fact that each partner stirs up some unconscious, unresolved developmental issue in the other, says Joan Lachkar, PhD, a Los Angeles practitioner who writes on partners who exhibit certain traits and characteristics of narcissistic and borderline PDs.
 
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