ACTIVE SEARCH CA - Hannah, 16, Devonte, 15, & Sierra Hart, 12, Mendocino County, 26 Mar 2018 #4

[Breezie]

http://www.kptv.com/story/37927858/hart-family-volunteered-at-sherwood-farm-and-food-pantry

More info from farm where family volunteered, from 2013 to 2016, kids appeared happy and healthy there.

This article makes it sound like things must have gone downhill fast, during 2017, and after the move to WA, which would go along, with Jen’s FB post, that someone shared earlier, about 2017 being a tough year.

 

[Whiteorchids]

2nd family may have perished in same California county as Hart clan, police say

Just weeks after the Hart family perished in a fatal plunge from an ocean overlook along the Pacific Coast Highway in Northern California, rescuers are searching for another family feared to have driven into water in the same county.

Authorities said that a vehicle, which witnesses identified as possibly a Honda Pilot SUV, vanished after falling into the rain-swollen Eel River in Mendocino County around 1 p.m. Friday.

The lost vehicle was reportedly southbound on Highway 101, pulled into a turnout and went over the side and into the river.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2018/04/1...fornia-near-hart-clans-plunge-police-say.html

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/mendoc...g-in-same-county-where-suv-plunged-off-cliff/

 

[Tssiemer]

Can the autopsies show if any of the kids were dead before the crash?


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[Myfullcrewe]

Wow that’s a lot of kids [emoji33] How can you afford to take them to Disneyland and other amusement parks? Out to dinner etc? I can barely afford two. I live near Disneyland ticket prices over $100. It’s crazy ridiculous.

We find other ways to have fun. Disney is not on the radar, and that is ok! We still find lots of ways to have fun and take advantage of homeschool days at many attractions for discount prices.

Places that have year family memberships are great (children’s museum and hands-on science museums are Christmas gifts from the grandparents; horse riding and gymnastics lessons are birthday presents from the grandparents). Usually eating out is saved for birthdays (which is monthly) or we love Little Caesars pizza for cheap takeout. We treat a couple at a time on special outings for one on one time. There are ways to make it work.

We bought an RV to make camping easier with little ones. After initial purchase of all the camping supplies, this can be a fun, inexpensive vacation all throughout the summer months for any size family.

We only have one income and sacrifice in some areas to make other areas possible. We save up and find deals when we can, like most families.

As with anything, every family finds a way to do what is important for their family within their budget and abilities and memories can still be made without depriving anyone.

Our grocery budget is easily $2k a month. I know there has been discussion of how much the Hart family made and that they receive a monthly adoption subsidy so affording food for the children shouldn’t have been an issue causing them to be starving their children. I think it was other reasons they resorted to that. Our 4 adoptions were all $$ international SN adoptions so we do not receive any state subsidy for their care.

I’m just trying to figure out wrap my brain around the Hart moms and all they have done to these kids and what led them to end things like they have. I think they initially had good intentions but were very unprepared for reality and something went horribly wrong. Holding out hope the missing two children are hiding somewhere safe and that they will soon be found and all the questions can be answered with truth.

 

[LonelyChild]

Can the autopsies show if any of the kids were dead before the crash?


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It can I believe. I believe they can tell if someone found in water is dead prior too depending on water in the lungs. I think theyd be able to tell if they were deceased prior. I think they can also tell if the kids had any broken bones prior to the accident and if they have any cuts that were in the process of healing. Idk that they can do this with the body they recently found or if the oyher bodies turn up with them but I think because when the family was found they weren't there that long they can atleast do tests on the kids found at the scenes. Water can really affect autopsies. The bodys often form a thick layer of wax if in water too long.

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[akazia1978]

It can I believe. I believe they can tell if someone found in water is dead prior too depending on water in the lungs. I think theyd be able to tell if they were deceased prior. I think they can also tell if the kids had any broken bones prior to the accident and if they have any cuts that were in the process of healing. Idk that they can do this with the body they recently found or if the oyher bodies turn up with them but I think because when the family was found they weren't there that long they can atleast do tests on the kids found at the scenes. Water can really affect autopsies. The bodys often form a thick layer of wax if in water too long.

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Yes, they definitely can tell. I doubt they murdered all six prior to the crash, although maybe they knocked them out (would have been the decent thing to do). Adam from CO was in the water for a month or more and there was no issues with the autopsy...water being cold helps too. My guess is if they haven't washed up now, they won't. My friend's fiancee died trying to save her from a rip current in Nicaragua...he washed up the following day not far away.

 

[Doghairrules]

Here's a super-cynical, possibly way off-base theory about why the women adopted the second set of kids: the first set were light-skinned and looked biracial, and so could probably pass as one of the women's biological children. If they were out in public together, no one would know how heroic they were! And if just one mom took the kids out, they'd look like a regular, possibly single-parent family--nothing special about them at all.

But the darker-skinned kids were clearly adopted, and so the image of the family went from medium-sized and "ho-hum" to huge and AMAZING!

And of course they couldn't live up to that image. They didn't have a motherly bone in them. Honestly, no one should be allowed to adopt that many kids without proving that they have super, way-above-average parenting skills and a record of success. I think of myself as a good mom--but I have two easy kids who've had easy lives. I would STINK at parenting if I had to raise six kids with traumas in their pasts (though of course I can't imagining hurting them, let alone murdering them). Point is, I have average parenting skills and should NOT be given six needy kids--it wouldn't be in the kids' interest at all. I do think the Texas DFPS should review its policies in light of this tragedy.

I think the other possibility is that the women blamed the first 3 because they “had to” abuse them and got the second 3 to fulfill their family fantasy.

 

[mtnlites]

This calls for speculation, but I hope it’s okay to ask this question.

What if they HAD answered the door when CPS arrived? Or if the police had made that wellness check? What would have happened?

My speculation is that the Harts would have been able to, at the very least, buy themselves some time. The house probably wasn’t a Turpin-style shambles, with feces covering the walls. There was probably food in the pantry or fridge. Whatever might be questionable, Jen would have said “well, they’re teenagers with special needs; we have to be strict/they have behavioral issues stemming from early childhood; we have to be strict” The kids were well-coached not to incriminate the parents. Even if CPS suspected emotional abuse, they wouldn’t have removed the children from the home on the spot, would they?

And then I think they would have been put ‘on notice’ and maybe would have run away again anyway.

JMO, MOO

There would have been some questioning of the kids to begin with and then the social worker would've decided if it warranted the opening of a case. If the worker decided that the children were in immediate danger then the children (or some of them) would've been immediately removed by the intake worker. However, I highly doubt that would've happened to the Harts. It takes a LOT for such a thing to happen. Removing the kids is always a last resort so for that to happen right up front they would've needed to see some huge safety concerns (uninhabitable house, open drug use, etc.) I only worked one case where the family had the children removed that night and it was because the father was threatening the mother with a gun and the police had been called. Thankfully, everyone is meant to get a proper investigation before such extremes are taken. I say "thankfully" because sometimes people DO make false reports and if social workers ran in and took out every child without investigating it first, we'd all be in trouble.

But yes, it would've given them some extra time. Emotional abuse takes a long time to prove; it might have taken them months to prove it or they may have never proven it at all. If they decided the case was worth opening then they would've subjected the children to doctors' visits to assess malnutrition, stunted growth, etc. That would also take time. They would've had a child psychologist talk to the children and assess them because even with obvious emotional issues, they would've had to prove that the issues were caused by the Harts and weren't prior adoption trauma or behavioral or cognitive issues. That would have taken time as well.

But, for what it's worth, I think you're right. I think they would've run anyway.

 

[Tssiemer]

Yes, they definitely can tell. I doubt they murdered all six prior to the crash, although maybe they knocked them out (would have been the decent thing to do). Adam from CO was in the water for a month or more and there was no issues with the autopsy...water being cold helps too. My guess is if they haven't washed up now, they won't. My friend's fiancee died trying to save her from a rip current in Nicaragua...he washed up the following day not far away.

I wasn’t thinking all 6. I was thinking specifically something happening to Devonte triggering the events.


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[LonelyChild]

Yes, they definitely can tell. I doubt they murdered all six prior to the crash, although maybe they knocked them out (would have been the decent thing to do). Adam from CO was in the water for a month or more and there was no issues with the autopsy...water being cold helps too. My guess is if they haven't washed up now, they won't. My friend's fiancee died trying to save her from a rip current in Nicaragua...he washed up the following day not far away.

Exactly this is why I cling to hope hannah and devonte are alive out there somewhere. I know cold water helps preserve the body in that case it can be helpful. I think it makes autopsies harder in the case they need evidence that couldve been on the body.

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[Starkville]

http://www.kptv.com/story/37927858/hart-family-volunteered-at-sherwood-farm-and-food-pantry

More info from farm where family volunteered, from 2013 to 2016, kids appeared happy and healthy there.

This article makes it sound like things must have gone downhill fast, after the move to WA, during 2017, which would go along, with Jen’s FB post, that someone shared earlier, about 2017 being a tough year.

Thanks for that article! Lots of interesting tidbits. So this couple claims that the Harts were vegan. At least they were getting fed at the food pantry. And why couldn’t they have been receiving SNAP or food stamps? Is there some oversight requirement where they wouldn’t want the government poking into their business?

I wonder what “debt” they had...

And I agree that things were building up, 2017 was a tough year, and they effing SNAPPED.

 

[rosemadderlake]

Well to be fair, that Occupy Monsanto picture is dated from 2013, which was BEFORE he became famous. But the video of Devonte dancing around in his underwear came AFTER that famous photo, so yeah I don't buy their excuse about wanting privacy.

And the center stage Bernie photo came after the famous hug photo... After they said they were laying low due to the negative comments they received... And declined Ken's invitation (free hug project) to meet Devonte... Also, there is that professional music video which features the kids... The name of the group escapes me. posted it a while back, will have to hunt for it.

It seems to me that these big events were showy displays, big political events, big parties, and not much more.

Though I do hope in the back of my mind that maybe Devonte made a connection, and someone gave him their contact info?

 

[enelram]

Can the autopsies show if any of the kids were dead before the crash?


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Depends on the condition of the body at time of collection and subsequent autopsy. Early reports said CHP did not show up at scene of crash for several hours after tourist reported seeing vehicle at bottom of cliff.

 

[whoopiecushions]

sorry double post

 

[whoopiecushions]

We find other ways to have fun. Disney is not on the radar, and that is ok! We still find lots of ways to have fun and take advantage of homeschool days at many attractions for discount prices.

Places that have year family memberships are great (children’s museum and hands-on science museums are Christmas gifts from the grandparents; horse riding and gymnastics lessons are birthday presents from the grandparents). Usually eating out is saved for birthdays (which is monthly) or we love Little Caesars pizza for cheap takeout. We treat a couple at a time on special outings for one on one time. There are ways to make it work.

We bought an RV to make camping easier with little ones. After initial purchase of all the camping supplies, this can be a fun, inexpensive vacation all throughout the summer months for any size family.

We only have one income and sacrifice in some areas to make other areas possible. We save up and find deals when we can, like most families.

As with anything, every family finds a way to do what is important for their family within their budget and abilities and memories can still be made without depriving anyone.

Our grocery budget is easily $2k a month. I know there has been discussion of how much the Hart family made and that they receive a monthly adoption subsidy so affording food for the children shouldn’t have been an issue causing them to be starving their children. I think it was other reasons they resorted to that. Our 4 adoptions were all $$ international SN adoptions so we do not receive any state subsidy for their care.

I’m just trying to figure out wrap my brain around the Hart moms and all they have done to these kids and what led them to end things like they have. I think they initially had good intentions but were very unprepared for reality and something went horribly wrong. Holding out hope the missing two children are hiding somewhere safe and that they will soon be found and all the questions can be answered with truth.

I don't think they ever had good intentions. They may have believed their intentions were good, but I think their primary motivation was their narcissistic need to be admired and feel special. It looks like they weren't very successful with their life goals. They both went to college and studied elementary education, yet they never made it as teachers. It's not clear if they even graduated. Does anyone know? So anyway, they didn't succeed in their career goals and they were working in non-prestigious jobs that didn't require college degrees. "Rescuing" these children gave them the attention and admiration they craved. It made them feel special. It's clear from all the videos, photos, and Jen's interviews that they LOVED attention.

 

[akazia1978]

you cannot receive food stamps over a certain income. with 53k a year and another 2k per month for the children that puts them at a healthy 73K. Also, at least here in CO to get food stamps it's mandatory you "volunteer"...which equates to a dollar an hour....not worth it.

 

[akazia1978]

IMO, I quit teaching because 40k a year is not possible to live on in my state. I would have taken the 53k a year. And I have an MA in early childhood ed. Teaching pays nothing and is very hard. I switch to programming and doubled my salary out the door.

 

[emma.laurens]

Try as in months later........ Thanks to Mrs. DeKalb's mother for telling her 80 year old father and him calling police. By the time March 23rd came, it was too late and also headed for the weekend, therefore only limited attempts could be made by CPS to visit on Friday but not the entire weekend,. Bruce DeKalb is is insensitive man and media had repeated the story in several ways in which he does not seem to understand and grasp why his own wife was upset even, he is a pathetic excuse for a human being. Then complained that the family barged in his house looking for HH. No Bruce, you let them openly in .

Honestly, my husband is on the autism spectrum, and he would have done the same thing, only because he can't see what's right in front of him sometimes and will move quickly to return everything to "normal order" if something unexpected happens. Aside from her husband's motivations, I hope Dana DeKalb gets therapy after this. And her father, too.

 

[Sleuth99]

Try as in months later........ Thanks to Mrs. DeKalb's mother for telling her 80 year old father and him calling police. By the time March 23rd came, it was too late and also headed for the weekend, therefore only limited attempts could be made by CPS to visit on Friday but not the entire weekend,. Bruce DeKalb is is insensitive man and media had repeated the story in several ways in which he does not seem to understand and grasp why his own wife was upset even, he is a pathetic excuse for a human being. Then complained that the family barged in his house looking for HH. No Bruce, you let them openly in .

Yea I found him to be insensitive too and by the transitive property insensitive to his wife. On the video when Dana was giving her interview and seemed close to tears, he didn't budge or move to console her. That right there was all I need to see he was the influential factor in not taking action sooner and he didn't regard the situation as serious even though it was clear as day that it was urgent. Dana is going to need some support, and she should look elsewhere cause she not finding it in Bruce Dekalb, unfortunately.


IMO

 

[emma.laurens]

The teeth!

Exactly. Dressing her up as the character that was chained up in the house, and missing teeth? I don't know why there's a question anymore. These women were cruel.