ACTIVE SEARCH CA - Hannah, 16, Devonte, 15, & Sierra Hart, 12, Mendocino County, 26 Mar 2018 #4

[?mysterian?]

According to this article http://www.kgw.com/article/news/loc...-as-storm-hits-california-coast/283-533859540 the DeKalbs worried about the problem before calling CPS : “It was upsetting,” DeKalb said. “We were trying to make sense of it. We played it out for nearly a week, then we decided there was no end to it, so we probably needed to get professional help."IMO, I'm uncomfortable with bashing the DeKalbs. We don't know the full story. They're not suspects or accomplices. We might not agree with their words or actions, but they're not responsible for this, the Harts are.

 

[Starkville]

http://www.kptv.com/story/37927858/hart-family-volunteered-at-sherwood-farm-and-food-pantry

More info from farm where family volunteered, from 2013 to 2016, kids appeared happy and healthy there.

This article makes it sound like things must have gone downhill fast, after the move to WA, during 2017, which would go along, with Jen’s FB post, that someone shared earlier, about 2017 being a tough year.

Thanks for that article! Lots of interesting tidbits. So this couple claims that the Harts were vegan. At least they were getting fed at the food pantry. And why couldn’t they have been receiving SNAP or food stamps? Is there some oversight requirement where they wouldn’t want the government poking into their business?

I wonder what “debt” they had...

And I agree that things were building up, 2017 was a tough year, and they effing SNAPPED.

 

[gcharlie]

It's hard to make any sense of this.

Here's an article that has been posted before, but I'll bring it up again. Article is from 2015 talking about how the family basically went into hiding after blow back from the viral photo of Devonte hugging a cop.

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2015/05/hug_photo.html

The photo was taken at the end of November 2014. The family literally had reporters camped outside their house.

This article was published May 2, 2015. So the family laid low for five months. And this public appearance was at the May Day Rally, which was highly political and anything but orderly that year.

In June, the family attended the Goonies celebration and was front and center for that event. Jen said she'd been working on the costumes for six months, so it doesn't sound like the family had plans to continue lying low. If you search this thread and the internet, you'll see that the family was out in force and photographed, as recently as October 2017 when Devonte was raising money for charity on his 15th birthday. It does seem as if the family really cut back on organized events mid to late 2016, after the March 2016 Bernie rally.

Jen posted on FB in June 2017 about a very rough year. I can only imagine what the last nine months were like in that family.

 

[Sleuth99]

According to this article http://www.kgw.com/article/news/loc...-as-storm-hits-california-coast/283-533859540 the DeKalbs worried about the problem before calling CPS : “It was upsetting,” DeKalb said. “We were trying to make sense of it. We played it out for nearly a week, then we decided there was no end to it, so we probably needed to get professional help."IMO, I'm uncomfortable with bashing the DeKalbs. We don't know the full story. They're not suspects or accomplices. We might not agree with their words or actions, but they're not responsible for this, the Harts are.

This was a collective atrocity against these children. I find Bruce's reaction and responses problematic and help to enable the women. What are you playing out exactly? The notion that these children are STARVING? You don't see an end to it? Are you worried about your food supply?!


IMO

 

[emma.laurens]

I hate how the friend in the Seattle Times article tries to be non-judgmental about the "spanking" incident by saying that Sarah "allowed her anger to get the best of her." Ummm isn't that how MOST child abuse incidents occur? Does any parent really say, "Yeah I just thought it would be fun to hit my kid." What makes Sarah or Jen so special? They wouldn't be so understanding if it was mom from a trailer park or "ghetto".

There's something creepy about the "friends" defending them. It's more than just denial. I'm not ready to go as far as the "they were in a cult" theories that have been floated. But calling their most vocal and loyal defenders a loosely-associated groupthink who bear more than a passing resemblance to self-isolating paranoid fundamentalists of any persuasion, and seem to have difficulty with the concept of individuation in children would be fair.

 

[msphilosopher]

I think the other possibility is that the women blamed the first 3 because they “had to” abuse them and got the second 3 to fulfill their family fantasy.

The "family fantasy" is a reasonable theory/ explanation.

I tend to think the root is more based on addiction. This is all my own opinion and observations. I see parallels in cases where addiction seems to be a recurring theme.

I think it's quite possible these woman were addicts, not in the drug sense but in another sense. I think each adoption fulfilled them feelings of overwhelming "empowerment", "uniqueness", "heroism" in "saving" these lives of underprivileged/ family-deprived children.

People can get hooked on a type of feeling just the same as a drug. Drug addicts get hooked because of the "feeling" the drug gives them.

It's my opinion that women were addicted to the feeling they got from adoptions. And when they weren't adopting, they were taking these children to progressive rallies and protests in order to "make a difference", "better the future", "equality", etc.... The protests give them the SAME feelings of "empowerment", "uniqueness", and "heroism" as did the adoptions.

People who are addicted to a feeling continue to do things that give them the desired feeling. And when the feeling feeling fades, the more they long for it. Hence, adoption around # 2, IMO. Just like drug addicts, they continue to do things even when the it becomes harder and harder to get the feeling. It becomes harder and harder to maintain and eventually it implodes as they hit rock bottom.

To me the second adoption was more powerful than the first because they were undoubtedly already having trouble/struggles with the first 3 kids, but in their eyes their level of heroism was even higher because their situation harder than the first time, because they already had 3 kids. "Saving" even more lives on top of those they are already "saving".

I see similar addiction patterns in the Turpin case. The addiction is different but still an addiction to a type of feeling.

 

[whoopiecushions]

There's something creepy about the "friends" defending them. It's more than just denial. I'm not ready to go as far as the "they were in a cult" theories that have been floated. But calling their most vocal and loyal defenders a loosely-associated groupthink who bear more than a passing resemblance to self-isolating paranoid fundamentalists of any persuasion, and seem to have difficulty with the concept of individuation in children would be fair.

Yeah I don't know if there's an official group/cult, but they all seem to attend the same music festivals (I.e the Beloved Festival) and they all seem to be fans of that Nahko band. It really is creepy and weird.

 

[flourish]

Exactly. Dressing her up as the character that was chained up in the house, and missing teeth? I don't know why there's a question anymore. These women were cruel.

Do we know the children didn't decide on the characters they wanted to play? Are we assuming the moms made the choices or do we know that?

 

[bluesneakers]

There's something creepy about the "friends" defending them. It's more than just denial. I'm not ready to go as far as the "they were in a cult" theories that have been floated. But calling their most vocal and loyal defenders a loosely-associated groupthink who bear more than a passing resemblance to self-isolating paranoid fundamentalists of any persuasion, and seem to have difficulty with the concept of individuation in children would be fair.

I think it's similar to family members defending each other after a crime. We see it regularly here - people in deep denial that their loved ones are capable of terrible acts, people who have only ever seen one side of their family members and don't understand another side could exist. And I believe part of it is a self-protection sort of denial because if they admit their loved ones could have done this it means they should have known, or should have seen the signs and stepped in. It's impossible means no one did anything wrong, not them or their loved ones.

I don't think they're a cult. Just a bunch of people who have similar interests and attend the same events, preach hippie love values and like the same music.

Groups like this can be found in every culture or sub-culture. If they were all members of the same mainstream church and other members were supporting them I don't think anyone would be jumping to "cult."

 

[rosemadderlake]

Has anyone seen any video with any of these kids speaking? Or interviewed?

 

[emma.laurens]

Do we know the children didn't decide on the characters they wanted to play? Are we assuming the moms made the choices or do we know that?

I should have qualified that with an "IMO." Yes, it is possible that the kids chose their own outfits, and there is no evidence that they didn't. But I am highly skeptical that a 13-year-old girl who was being physically isolated in a house and emotionally isolated from the larger family group, and who had lost two teeth in two separate, highly questionable "accidents," and had been abused previously would choose to dress up, of all the Goonies characters, as the one who is physically isolated in a house, emotionally isolated from his larger family group, and has missing teeth due to prior abusive incidents.

Also, I feel like the Harts made frequent statements about the "pecking order" through their clothing choices. Just IMO.

 

[flourish]

I think it's similar to family members defending each other after a crime. We see it regularly here - people in deep denial that their loved ones are capable of terrible acts, people who have only ever seen one side of their family members and don't understand another side could exist. And I believe part of it is a self-protection sort of denial because if they admit their loved ones could have done this it means they should have known, or should have seen the signs and stepped in. It's impossible means no one did anything wrong, not them or their loved ones.

I don't think they're a cult. Just a bunch of people who have similar interests and attend the same events, preach hippie love values and like the same music.

Groups like this can be found in every culture or sub-culture. If they were all members of the same mainstream church and other members were supporting them I don't think anyone would be jumping to "cult."

Thank you, blue. I think "cult" is much too strong and negative a term to use here. I grew up in a cult, which is often considered a mainstream religion but still fits criterion for a cult. A cult has beliefs and practices that all members are expected to participate in and believe. I don't see that here---I see some common interests, but not cult-like behavior or beliefs. Like, they were fans of a band....even juggalos aren't considered a cult, and they are much more of scary and organized or whatever you want to call it...but yes, I agree that referring to a group as a "cult" because they share some interests and whatever, is overdoing it.

This story sure seems to bring out hyperbole.

 

[Sleuth99]

Has anyone seen any video with any of these kids speaking? Or interviewed?

Nope


IMO

 

[Vail]

Can the autopsies show if any of the kids were dead before the crash?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

This is exactly what I was thinking...if one of the kids was recently deceased, the gravity of that situaton combined with the impending CPS visit they couldn't control (and possible discovery) could make them do this. I've wondered whether one of the missing was killed prior.

 

[Momoffourboys]

Those are the weights listed on their missing person posters. Obviously the posters haven't been distributed widely. That's really a shame. The Sheriff's office needs to do better.

Just to give you an idea of how malnourished these kids were. And I firmly believe they were starved. Regularly.

My youngest is a VERY skinny 15 year old boy. For whatever reasons, he is a vegetarian, he limits his sugar and carbs and drinks veggie/fruit juices. So I would say, maybe, follows a similar diet as the kids. This is all self imposed. He weighs 140 lbs!!!

They were starved! No doubt in my mind.

 

[emma.laurens]

Thank you, blue. I think "cult" is much too strong and negative a term to use here. I grew up in a cult, which is often considered a mainstream religion but still fits criterion for a cult. A cult has beliefs and practices that all members are expected to participate in and believe. I don't see that here---I see some common interests, but not cult-like behavior or beliefs. Like, they were fans of a band....even juggalos aren't considered a cult, and they are much more of scary and organized or whatever you want to call it...but yes, I agree that referring to a group as a "cult" because they share some interests and whatever, is overdoing it.

This story sure seems to bring out hyperbole.

I agree, please don't misunderstand my original post. I specified that calling them cult members seemed unfounded. Acknowledging that there is a line of conversation outside of this forum that is floating the cult association is not the same as advocating the same idea.

And the festival "community" they traveled with does have an odd mix of decentralized-isolationist, anti-government/anti-medicine, anti-individuation/"forever young" beliefs, and enough organization to police each other about what is being said to the media to raise a red flag. Obviously, not all people who participate in those festivals feel that way, and a number of them have said in msm that they called CPS on the family previously. The fact that those are the people that Jen and Sarah cut out of their lives, however, does suggest that the few social influences and peers around this family who had awareness of the family's day-to-day life were questionable, and may go beyond "denial."

 

[emma.laurens]

Can anyone confirm that LE has actually conducted a search of the Hart's 2-acre property and the surrounding woods? The last search, from what I could find, was the one limited by search warrant to the house, where the two computers were removed.

 

[December]

Please forgive this question, did the neighbor for sure see all eight of them get into the SUV?

I have always thought Lavonte's request for the box of food meant he was going to run away with whomever he could take. I know how unlikely that is at this point.

 

[Breamworthy]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VjpDkSfivgk&feature=youtu.be

When this video was posted in an earlier thread, many commented that they thought it must have been filmed the previous summer because of the amount of vegetation being too much for April. I live on Vancouver Island, so in the Pacific Northwest, and this is about the state things were at a couple of weeks ago. I see tulips and forget-me-nots in the video, which is appropriate to late March, early April.

 

[cady]

I don't think the neighbors actually saw them leave. Somehow they knew that they were gone the next morning.....and they noticed that the cinder block wall had been knocked into. I think that the Yukon was kept in the garage, but maybe not. If so, the neighbors wouldn't be able to see who got in the car to leave. But if the yukon was usually parked outside of the garage, they could clearly see that they had left. JMO