Deceased/Not Found Ca - Hannah,16 (fnd dec), Devonte,15, (dec nf) Ciera Hart,12 (fnd dec),mendocino Cty,26 Mar 2018 #7

[smiley]

I can explain the process here in Louisiana. You call the LE number, non emergency (not 911) and report suspected child abuse/neglect. They send LE immediately to the house. They talk with the parents and children. They look over the children, their rooms, home, food, toys, etc. If they deem no abuse/neglect or a isolated incident, they write their report and close out the case. OR they can refer to CPS at that point, and CPS should come that day to do whatever they do. I have posted this on my own FB page to get answers, as I know several in LE

 

[Kasmeer]

On the "yes ma'am" thing, I wonder if they might have used different names to distinguish the mothers? I know "Mom" is the usual name in the US, but here in the UK it's usually "Mum"... but, in some areas here (particularly Wales), it's "Mam". Could sound a lot like "Ma'am" depending on pronunciation (to me they're pretty much the same word, but in other accents they may be more different). Not that I really think that they would be using an uncommon British variant of the name, but it's maybe possible.

 

[Shiressleuth]

Sorry, I have admittedly missed a lot... too hard to keep up unless we're here 24/7!

Nobody answered it then either so I don't know how we could find out. Did the neighbours mention it on Dr Oz when they were on?

 

[deugirtni]

Nobody answered it then either so I don't know how we could find out. Did the neighbours mention it on Dr Oz when they were on?

I missed that as well.. do you have a link?

 

[deugirtni]

I can explain the process here in Louisiana. You call the LE number, non emergency (not 911) and report suspected child abuse/neglect. They send LE immediately to the house. They talk with the parents and children. They look over the children, their rooms, home, food, toys, etc. If they deem no abuse/neglect or a isolated incident, they write their report and close out the case. OR they can refer to CPS at that point, and CPS should come that day to do whatever they do. I have posted this on my own FB page to get answers, as I know several in LE

Come to think of it... was it said the neighbor called 911, or did they call CPS directly?

 

[jenves]

I don’t believe that the CPS visit is what threw the family into the downward spiral. The CPS visit was an added ingredient for this disastrous recipe that fueled the mental breakdown.
It is my hope that JH came home to find DH and HH had ran away, I feel that is based on the specific items and quantity of those items that DH requested from the neighbors.
She comes home finds them gone...calls SH and in the mean time CPS knocks. SH comes home, they realize CPS has been contacted and unfortunately rational reasoning flew out the window. They didn’t report DH and HH missing because they assumed all of the children would be removed from the home. So, to JH the rational way to deal with this was to run away and keep the family together forever. This is all JMO, and my hope.

 

[Shiressleuth]

On the "yes ma'am" thing, I wonder if they might have used different names to distinguish the mothers? I know "Mom" is the usual name in the US, but here in the UK it's usually "Mum"... but, in some areas here (particularly Wales), it's "Mam". Could sound a lot like "Ma'am" depending on pronunciation (to me they're pretty much the same word, but in other accents they may be more different). Not that I really think that they would be using an uncommon British variant of the name, but it's maybe possible.

Yes and Mamgu ( pronounced Mamgi ) too sometimes. Mine were Mum and Dad. I was wondering if JH insisted on "Yes Ma'am" as she was the "teacher" doing the home schooling. We called schoolteachers and coppers Ma'am and Sir (in the 1960's). It still struck me as chilling when thinking about a scared young teen hiding to escape her mother's ire coming to get her. Whatever was she leaping out of an upper storey window to escape from in the middle of the night?

 

[bluesneakers]

Come to think of it... was it said the neighbor called 911, or did they call CPS directly?

November 18th:
Man called 911 about 'abused kids' months before California SUV crash


March 28th:
Child welfare probe opened into family prior to fatal crash

This past Friday, neighbors say they called child services, who responded to the home. The Clark County Sheriff's Office confirmed the visit happened because of a report that the children weren't being fed. A few hours after the visit, neighbors said the family took off.

After days of this, and other accusations of abuse, Dana DeKalb, called child services. She said a CPS worker came, the Harts refused to answer the door, and hours later, the family was gone.

"The next morning when we saw that the vehicle was gone, and then Sunday morning when it still wasn't there, we figured something was off," said Bruce DeKalb, Dana's husband.

"Because they never go anywhere. They go to the store and back but ... ", Dana said.

"We figured that they saw the business card and loaded up the kids as quick as they could and took off," Bruce said.

This is from the timeline KaaBoom posted:

March 23, 2018: The Washington State Department of Social and Health Services opens a Child Protective Services investigation in which the Hart children are "identified as potential victims of alleged abuse or neglect."

March 23, 2018: The Washington State Department of Social and Health Services attempts without success to make contact with the Hart family.

 

[deugirtni]

Actually, the thing about breaking into the neighbor's car because of the blinking light sounds like very normal childlike behavior, to me. Not every child would do it, of course, but I know many who would. Many children are fascinated by sights, sounds, etc., and they let their curiosity get the best of them. (My husband loved the sounds of tinkling glass when he shot the barn window out with a BB gun, so he just kept shooting. Got every one of them.)

Kids is kids, and this reminds me of the friend who said something along the lines of "they completely freaked out with normal childish behavior -couldn't handle it".

I don't know at what age Jeremiah did this, but if we're to believe JH, they were all behind on the maturing curve.

What I think is the most abnormal thing about it how she seemed so utterly astounded by it and seemed to feel the need to make her absolute astonishment known.

Okay, I see a post now from the neighbor who said she was upset, not blazing mad. I thought I'd read from another source that she was very concerned/confounded by it. So, don't know what to think now.

Your post speaks to something I mentioned in a previous post.. something about when someone gets a piece of information, it can become the focus of *everything* from then on.. ie say an inexperienced couple adopted a baby who was subsequently diagnosed with having something, like say FAS.. from then on, every negative behavior exhibited by the baby/toddler/child will be attributed to FAS, rather than some things being attributed to just normal kid development.

The real reason for my response to your post was your statement: "... reminds me of the friend who said something along the lines of "they completely freaked out with normal childish behavior -couldn't handle it"." Was there a friend of the H's who said this?

 

[bluesneakers]

Whatever was she leaping out of an upper storey window to escape from in the middle of the night?

"Hannah told DeKalb that her white mothers were “racist” and she was “whipped with belts,” the records show."
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...ths-before-california-suv-crash-idUSKBN1HJ3HH

 

[deugirtni]

Has there even been a police press conference on this case? If not, why not? It has occurred to me that it seems like all of the info in MSM articles are coming from the interview with the neighbours? Isn't it usual that police would hold a PC, state their facts, and take questions from reporters, which would be aired on the news channels?

 

[Shiressleuth]

I missed that as well.. do you have a link?

No I haven't been able to view it myself.

 

[debbiegarcia36]

Also from the previous thread - a story about Jeremiah breaking into the neighbor's car because the red light kept blinking inside. Wouldn't the family's own car have that blinking light? Couldn't Jen have explained it to him? I mean she was homeschooling the kids after all, it would have taken 10 minutes to explain. Easy peasy. To me it sounds like a story to cover up whatever reason he broke into the neighbor's car, if it in fact happened.

So now I'm left wondering - WHY would he break into their car? Or was the entire thing fabricated?

Friend of Jennifer Hart said she never heard missing Hannah Hart speak

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[human]

I don’t believe that the CPS visit is what threw the family into the downward spiral. The CPS visit was an added ingredient for this disastrous recipe that fueled the mental breakdown.
It is my hope that JH came home to find DH and HH had ran away, I feel that is based on the specific items and quantity of those items that DH requested from the neighbors.
She comes home finds them gone...calls SH and in the mean time CPS knocks. SH comes home, they realize CPS has been contacted and unfortunately rational reasoning flew out the window. They didn’t report DH and HH missing because they assumed all of the children would be removed from the home. So, to JH the rational way to deal with this was to run away and keep the family together forever. This is all JMO, and my hope.

I thought of that, too. But Devonte told the neighbors he did not want the kids split up. And if they were hiding, would they not have appeared somewhere?

 

[debbiegarcia36]

Silly me didn't 'get it' until you posted that, thanks.

No, silly me!

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[Mira_Eg]

" New documents released Monday*show that Oregon Child Protective Services show the agency knew that the Hart family had been investigated for child abuse in Minnesota.*...... Investigation was closed 5 days after it was first opened in July 2013"
Link: http://www.koin.com/news/oregon/oregon-cps-knew-of-hart-family-abuse-allegations-in-mn/1136220858

 

[bluesneakers]

Has there even been a police press conference on this case? If not, why not? It has occurred to me that it seems like all of the info in MSM articles are coming from the interview with the neighbours? Isn't it usual that police would hold a PC, state their facts, and take questions from reporters, which would be aired on the news channels?

Yes, there have been press conferences. The last one I saw was when they broke the news about the BAC and benadryl ingredient. I think he said they would have no further press conferences unless they had news, but he might have only been referring to that weekend. (As in no more pressers until Monday at the soonest unless there was breaking news because they are a small PD.)

 

[Shiressleuth]

"Hannah told DeKalb that her white mothers were “racist” and she was “whipped with belts,” the records show."
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...ths-before-california-suv-crash-idUSKBN1HJ3HH

TY. That says 4 previous occasions to the Nov 911 call and answers Deugirtni's question about the March call ( to the agency not to 911)

So what were the FOUR occasions previous to last November - one was possibly the domestic abuse so that leaves 3 more incidents we don't know about.....???

 

[deugirtni]

Yes and Mamgu ( pronounced Mamgi ) too sometimes. Mine were Mum and Dad. I was wondering if JH insisted on "Yes Ma'am" as she was the "teacher" doing the home schooling. We called schoolteachers and coppers Ma'am and Sir (in the 1960's). It still struck me as chilling when thinking about a scared young teen hiding to escape her mother's ire coming to get her. Whatever was she leaping out of an upper storey window to escape from in the middle of the night?

I seriously can't imagine, if this situation had happened to me, that I could just shut my eyes and give the child back to the parents the child is accusing of child abuse, without so much as even a phonecall to LE. I don't want to judge the neighbors by any means, because that would have put them in a terrible position, and they're right - kids can say things that aren't true - but.. to have this happen in the middle of the night, and apparently it was the first time the neighbors had seen *anything* in physical form, of the children, it's just all too unimaginable.

And the fact she had climbed from an upstairs window, and been stuck with blackberries.. this would have been meaningless to me to read this, except for the fact that last summer my next door neighbor had planted a garden (on my property), which was full of big beautiful blackberries.. and there was me, hoping to instead cop some raspberries, seeing the blackberries.. and so I walked into them to get some.. and I was literally terrified and had a moment of anxiety that I wasn't going to be able to get out of it without assistance. Those things are NASTY. For her to have gone through all of that, to go to an unknown neighbor's home in the middle of night to express allegations of abuse.. surely there's something there... way too much to be solely on the plate of the neighbor to deal with and make a judgement call (or non-call!).

 

[LeighB]

“She had said he had a mom who used drugs and he had some emotional deficiencies because of that.”..."

I wonder if they just had no idea how kids really behave, and really thought everything they did bad must be b/c of their "drug background," because after all, "We're parenting them perfect so it can't be our fault that they're so disobedient!" Or maybe they didn't really think that, but it was a convenient quick excuse any time a child's misbehavior affected an outsider. My biggest question: did the *kids* know they were always saying this, and did those poor kids believe they were just broken crack kids?

I can't tell from Nusheen's version of the story whether it was really odd behavior or not, on its face. But if it was, and if they really did have such terrible judgment because they were so "broken", hello, therapy?! Not just go about your business and give up all hope of them finding their own place in the world!

When a person calls 911 about a suspected child abuse issue, what is the process?

It's a bit confusing to me here because at one point, CPS called 911 about the Harts! I think it was after CPS went to the Hart door 3 days, had seen the cars moving in and out Friday (and noticed the Yukon gone Saturday), and wanted to know how to proceed.

True. Nowadays, who really has the nerve to go unannounced to someone's door, and they should really expect to receive no answer. But regardless, how did JH (and SH?) know they were in danger of losing their kids if they didn't answer the door?

Earlier reports said CPS left a card.