CA - Joey, Summer, Gianni, Joseph Jr McStay Murders - Feb 4th 2010 #10

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cobalt sky said:
But according to Sequeida, MSM was already doing the welding. So why would Joey need to hire another welder? I like Patrick, but imo you have to take everything he says with a grain of salt. He never said anything about Joey being unhappy with Chase's work until AFTER Chase was arrested. Patrick is easily influenced by people and over the years has had a tendency to parrot whatever the hanger-on-of-the-moment is whispering in his ear. To be clear, I think he is a grieving father/fil/gf who wants to help and wants justice for his family but I also think people have taken advantage of this over the years.

Also, it's important to remember that Sequeida himself testified that he was hoping to change the focus of his business to doing exclusively fountains. He liked the idea that he didn't have to do all of the up-front work (field visits, preparing quotes, etc) and it was easier money with less work. I wonder if Joey and Chase were aware of this lol. I wonder if Sequeida taking on more responsibility regarding completing the fountains had more to do with them wanting to edge Chase out (and eventually possibly Joey) in order to increase their own percentage of profit as opposed to Chase's lack of ambition and quality of work. Regardless, Joey already has a willing welder (MSM) who was ready to completely re-organize his entire business to focus exclusively on his fountains so I just don't see him planning on hiring another welder. Could he have been planning along with Sequeida to edge Chase out of the picture altogether? That would definitely be motive I think. But I also think if there was any evidence of that we would certainly have heard about it from the pros. So imo there is as of yet no solid evidence that Joey had any plans on firing or replacing Chase.
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With regard to PM, I have read that many times, LE purposely tells the families to keep their opinions about certain POI's to themselves, so as not to tip them off. That's probably why he previously said that, "he didn't think CM was involved." He struck up a friendship, with an associate of JM's named Gina and she told PM, that her FIRST suspect was CM. That makes me think he knew and just kept saying otherwise to protect the investigation.
 
missy1974 said:
His first call to the bank, he was at home IIRC, or on his home tower. If he stopped to check at a bank, based on what I saw on Chase's records, I think the bank statements would have noted that "balance inquiry" or something like that.

But again, even if he got a bank balance, why would he check the QB's account that he NEVER wrote cheques out of?

We don't have to debate about him making a fraud report, we know he didn't based on the Fraud investigator's testimony.
Click to expand...

I just checked my bank records. We have them all together for the accountant for the taxes being done.

I see nothing indicating anytime I have stopped to check my bank balance on an ATM or anytime I have checked online for my balance. Maybe that's just my bank?
 
katydid23 said:
If you file a fraud report on your account, it FREEZES immediately. Any outstanding checks will be denied/rejected. It takes quite awhile to get things sorted out.

For a business like Joey's, this would be a total nightmare. If he had no idea who was stealing from his account, then freezing it would be the right answer.

But this was Chase, his long time employee, and someone who he had a 'back and forth' financial flow with already. I am pretty sure that he thought he could sort things out.
Click to expand...

I agree, I think Joey would definitely have given Chase a chance to explain. Which explains why he continued on his way to RC to meet with Chase instead of turning around and just going directly to his bank and police to report the alleged fraud.

It's once he gets to RC that his actions puzzle me. They allegedly had a two hour lunch, which I believe LE stated somewhere that they verified there actually was a lunch meeting (though I know this is still up for debate). Kind of strange if you are angry with and plan to fire someone. So maybe they worked things out? But if they worked things out then what was Chase's motive to murder him? Chase is an experienced and savvy con, he isn't going to kill his cash cow unless he has to. Chase stood to make a lot more money with Joey alive. And both he and Joey had a sweet deal with MSM doing a bulk of the actual work lol, why mess that up over a few thousand dollars?

If Joey did fire Chase, and possibly asked for a storage key back, I would imagine that they left on prickly terms with each other. It is almost certain that Joey made it back to Fallbrook later that afternoon. Why, on his way back home, didn't he call his bank to report the fraud and protect his account? Why didn't he call the police? Ok, maybe he just didn't have the heart to report his friend. But Joey had at least a 1 1/2 hour drive home, why didn't he call anyone to tell them about this huge event that was going to significantly affect his business? Joey was always on his phone...no call to vent to Mom? Dad? McGyver? One of his other many friends? No call to Dan..."lock it all down, Chase is stealing!" No call to vent to/warn SUMMER? No call to MSM, "hey, just want to give you a heads up...". The inaction and lack of communication with anyone is puzzling to me. Anyone but Chase that is, he called HIM several times.

And Chase allowing Joey to leave RC at all, how could he have known whether or not Joey had reported him? Told family/friends about what happened? Would Chase risk going all the way to Fallbrook to murder the family not knowing what Joey might have said to anyone else?

IF Chase did murder the family I just don't think it was over the finances, I really think something else happened.

All IMO

ETA: Sorry this is so long!!! Didn't realize I was typing that much, too much wine again haha!
 
Where is Joey's father, Patrick McStay?
Since the go fund me pages, we haven't heard a peep.
Where's his friend that used to post here on websleuths?
We don't know if any family members are even attending this trial, other then Chase Merritt's daughter.
The lack of coverage on this trial is beyond depressing.
Where is the media that should be covering this horrific murder of an entire innocent family?
I don't see Patrick McStay being silent.
So what? A potential book deal?
My stomach feels ill.
 
katydid23 said:
IIRC, the fraud lady at the bank said she would only have that record if Joey had submitted a fraud report.

Otherwise the bank employee would have made their own notes if there was something to make note of.

Maybe his call/question was not something that the employee thought needed to be written down?
Click to expand...

I think she said, calling an individual branch, the call wouldn't be noted, but if they went into the bank systems it could be (it was kinda left vague).

But again, IMO HYPOTHETICALLY, if he called and said I'm Joseph McStay, my account number is #########, I would like to know what the last cheque that went through my account was? That employee would have to log into his account to look at that, I believe that the computer system would log that, IMO. If he called to ask the hours or maybe the address of another branch or something trivial, no, I don't think it would be logged, I doubt he would even give his name, again JMO.

It still doesn't answer my other question lol IF he found out before he logged into QB's, why wouldn't he log into the account that he wrote cheques from.... so many questions! LOL
 
QueenBofOB said:
With regard to PM, I have read that many times, LE purposely tells the families to keep their opinions about certain POI's to themselves, so as not to tip them off. That's probably why he previously said that, "he didn't think CM was involved." He struck up a friendship, with an associate of JM's named Gina and she told PM, that her FIRST suspect was CM. That makes me think he knew and just kept saying otherwise to protect the investigation.
Click to expand...

I respect your opinion on this but I'm not buying it. Patrick made no secret about how much he disliked and mistrusted LE, especially back then. He was also very vocal about who he suspected and he never alluded to Chase. As for Gina, another hanger-on looking for her 15 minutes, I don't have a very high opinion of her and I will leave it at that. All IMO.
 
katydid23 said:
I just checked my bank records. We have them all together for the accountant for the taxes being done.

I see nothing indicating anytime I have stopped to check my bank balance on an ATM or anytime I have checked online for my balance. Maybe that's just my bank?
Click to expand...

On Chase's, it said "balance inquiry" (maybe it wasn't at his own bank? I have never used an ATM to check lol). And even if it didn't show on his bank statement, I find it extremely hard to believe that the bank wouldn't have record of this. JMO
 
cobalt sky said:
I agree, I think Joey would definitely have given Chase a chance to explain. Which explains why he continued on his way to RC to meet with Chase instead of turning around and just going directly to his bank and police to report the alleged fraud.

It's once he gets to RC that his actions puzzle me. They allegedly had a two hour lunch, which I believe LE stated somewhere that they verified there actually was a lunch meeting (though I know this is still up for debate). Kind of strange if you are angry with and plan to fire someone. So maybe they worked things out? But if they worked things out then what was Chase's motive to murder him? Chase is an experienced and savvy con, he isn't going to kill his cash cow unless he has to. Chase stood to make a lot more money with Joey alive. And both he and Joey had a sweet deal with MSM doing a bulk of the actual work lol, why mess that up over a few thousand dollars?

If Joey did fire Chase, and possibly asked for a storage key back, I would imagine that they left on prickly terms with each other. It is almost certain that Joey made it back to Fallbrook later that afternoon. Why, on his way back home, didn't he call his bank to report the fraud and protect his account? Why didn't he call the police? Ok, maybe he just didn't have the heart to report his friend. But Joey had at least a 1 1/2 hour drive home, why didn't he call anyone to tell them about this huge event that was going to significantly affect his business? Joey was always on his phone...no call to vent to Mom? Dad? McGyver? One of his other many friends? No call to Dan..."lock it all down, Chase is stealing!" No call to vent to/warn SUMMER? No call to MSM, "hey, just want to give you a heads up...". The inaction and lack of communication with anyone is puzzling to me. Anyone but Chase that is, he called HIM several times.

And Chase allowing Joey to leave RC at all, how could he have known whether or not Joey had reported him? Told family/friends about what happened? Would Chase risk going all the way to Fallbrook to murder the family not knowing what Joey might have said to anyone else?

IF Chase did murder the family I just don't think it was over the finances, I really think something else happened.

All IMO

ETA: Sorry this is so long!!! Didn't realize I was typing that much, too much wine again haha!
Click to expand...

Nothing like a good old wine rant :D:D:D

I'm still trying to establish that Joey "found out". There is nothing that has been shown to me that indicates that.
 
KALI said:
Where is Joey's father, Patrick McStay?
Since the go fund me pages, we haven't heard a peep.
Where's his friend that used to post here on websleuths?
We don't know if any family members are even attending this trial, other then Chase Merritt's daughter.
The lack of coverage on this trial is beyond depressing.
Where is the media that should be covering this horrific murder of an entire innocent family?
I don't see Patrick McStay being silent.
So what? A potential book deal?
My stomach feels ill.
Click to expand...

We have heard very little about who is there and when.

ETA: Hope hubby is doing good today and you are doing okay too!
 
cobalt sky said:
I agree, I think Joey would definitely have given Chase a chance to explain. Which explains why he continued on his way to RC to meet with Chase instead of turning around and just going directly to his bank and police to report the alleged fraud.

It's once he gets to RC that his actions puzzle me. They allegedly had a two hour lunch, which I believe LE stated somewhere that they verified there actually was a lunch meeting (though I know this is still up for debate). Kind of strange if you are angry with and plan to fire someone. So maybe they worked things out? But if they worked things out then what was Chase's motive to murder him? Chase is an experienced and savvy con, he isn't going to kill his cash cow unless he has to. Chase stood to make a lot more money with Joey alive. And both he and Joey had a sweet deal with MSM doing a bulk of the actual work lol, why mess that up over a few thousand dollars?

If Joey did fire Chase, and possibly asked for a storage key back, I would imagine that they left on prickly terms with each other. It is almost certain that Joey made it back to Fallbrook later that afternoon. Why, on his way back home, didn't he call his bank to report the fraud and protect his account? Why didn't he call the police? Ok, maybe he just didn't have the heart to report his friend. But Joey had at least a 1 1/2 hour drive home, why didn't he call anyone to tell them about this huge event that was going to significantly affect his business? Joey was always on his phone...no call to vent to Mom? Dad? McGyver? One of his other many friends? No call to Dan..."lock it all down, Chase is stealing!" No call to vent to/warn SUMMER? No call to MSM, "hey, just want to give you a heads up...". The inaction and lack of communication with anyone is puzzling to me. Anyone but Chase that is, he called HIM several times.

And Chase allowing Joey to leave RC at all, how could he have known whether or not Joey had reported him? Told family/friends about what happened? Would Chase risk going all the way to Fallbrook to murder the family not knowing what Joey might have said to anyone else?

IF Chase did murder the family I just don't think it was over the finances, I really think something else happened.

All IMO

ETA: Sorry this is so long!!! Didn't realize I was typing that much, too much wine again haha!
Click to expand...


Joey is a grifter and a con man. He would have been able to calm Joey down, somewhat and prevent him from calling in the fraud. JMO

But Joey may have given a harsh ultimatum to Chase. And Joey may not have wanted Chase to be working on future projects until he paid back some of the money he owed---OR UNTIL HE DID SOME WORK< FREE OF CHARGE....something like that.

Whatever Joey said or planned may have triggered Chase's rage/resentment. Finally Joey has all of these big deals rolling in, and Joey wants to cut Chase out of the action...

I don't think he would have called anyone, except maybe Summer, to tell them the bad news yet. All he would have heard was "I told ya so'....JMO

He may have told Summer , if he even had the chance...:(
 
katydid23 said:
Joey is a grifter and a con man. He would have been able to calm Joey down, somewhat and prevent him from calling in the fraud. JMO

But Joey may have given a harsh ultimatum to Chase. And Joey may not have wanted Chase to be working on future projects until he paid back some of the money he owed---OR UNTIL HE DID SOME WORK< FREE OF CHARGE....something like that.

Whatever Joey said or planned may have triggered Chase's rage/resentment. Finally Joey has all of these big deals rolling in, and Joey wants to cut Chase out of the action...

I don't think he would have called anyone, except maybe Summer, to tell them the bad news yet. All he would have heard was "I told ya so'....JMO

He may have told Summer , if he even had the chance...:(
Click to expand...

This may all be true... my problem at the moment is all of the above is based on Joey knowing that a cheque was written and cashed without his knowledge, yet there is no proof that he found this out. A call to the bank is just that, maybe he called to see if he could take his cheque to the RC branch? maybe he was checking the RC hours? Maybe he was checking his own branch hours? There are a number of reasons why he could have called. Patrick said he was planning on going to the bank.

KAYE: In fact things were better than fine. Joseph had just received a big paycheck for one of his fountains, $16,000.

P. MCSTAY: He was going to go to the bank and deposit a check. There was a branch of the bank right there at Rancho Cucamonga by where Chase lived.

The prosecution does have a few more days of testimony, maybe they will come up with this answer.

ETA link CNN.com - Transcripts
 
missy1974 said:
This may all be true... my problem at the moment is all of the above is based on Joey knowing that a cheque was written and cashed without his knowledge, yet there is no proof that he found this out. A call to the bank is just that, maybe he called to see if he could take his cheque to the RC branch? maybe he was checking the RC hours? Maybe he was checking his own branch hours? There are a number of reasons why he could have called. Patrick said he was planning on going to the bank.

KAYE: In fact things were better than fine. Joseph had just received a big paycheck for one of his fountains, $16,000.

P. MCSTAY: He was going to go to the bank and deposit a check. There was a branch of the bank right there at Rancho Cucamonga by where Chase lived.

The prosecution does have a few more days of testimony, maybe they will come up with this answer.

ETA link CNN.com - Transcripts
Click to expand...


I wonder, was this $16,000 check ever confirmed to have existed and cashed?
 
cobalt sky said:
I wonder, was this $16,000 check ever confirmed to have existed and cashed?
Click to expand...

I don't know! So much I want to know LOL I also want to know if the "insurance cheque" from the fountain that was damaged when shipped ever came? And how much it was.

Sequieda said they redid it (wonder if that meant they just fixed what was broken, not redoing from scratch?) This is what Sequieda Sr. called Joey a crook over I think... maybe it was that they wanted a bigger chunk of the insurance cheque?
 
missy1974 said:
I don't know! So much I want to know LOL I also want to know if the "insurance cheque" from the fountain that was damaged when shipped ever came? And how much it was.

Sequieda said they redid it (wonder if that meant they just fixed what was broken, not redoing from scratch?) This is what Sequieda Sr. called Joey a crook over I think... maybe it was that they wanted a bigger chunk of the insurance cheque?
Click to expand...

I don't know, I wish all that was more clear. Was this the situation where Dan allegedly called Sequeida Sr. and told him about the insurance claim? Or do I have that mixed up with something else?
 
I have been lurking and following the threads after waiting so long for this case to come to trial. I have to say that I am really impressed with fellow WS members' intelligent input as this case has progressed.

I think CM is most probably guilty, but if I was a juror at this point, there would be a window of "reasonable doubt" despite the circumstantial evidence presented so far.

I considered CM a slick con man from his first interview back when the family was missing. He creeped me out. If I was a juror, I have to decide, for example, if the (critical) cheque evidence is proof that CM is a thieving , or if it is proof that he is a mass killer. That is quite a stretch from one to the other.

Again, if I was a juror, another thought I would have is why would CM encourage JM's family to call LE to report the family missing when he didn't have alibis for the crucial days after they went missing? If I was guilty, I wouldn't do that and I wouldn't expect a street wise ex-con to make this blatantly stupid mistake.

With this case being 100% circumstantial evidence, and with a death penalty charge, I can see a problem with reasonable doubt for some jurors at this point. Maybe there is more compelling evidence coming from the state to trump the upcoming defense presentation. Just my thoughts on the case so far, and moo.
 
cobalt sky said:
I don't know, I wish all that was more clear. Was this the situation where Dan allegedly called Sequeida Sr. and told him about the insurance claim? Or do I have that mixed up with something else?
Click to expand...

Dan called and asked why Joey was paying them or how they were connected to EIP, something like that. It is unclear if it was before or after they were killed. The defense asked both Sequieda and Carmen, neither knew. It is on my list of things I want to know haha The defense does have Dan's phone records though, the T-Mobile guy verified them when he was cross examined.
 
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