CA - Joey, Summer, Gianni, Joseph Jr McStay Murders - Feb 4th 2010 #15

[smr]

Why does the prosecution assert they were murdered at home? Even MM said in the March 2010 interview video that there was no struggle and they likely were lured out of the home. That was when it's not even known they were dead. No a shred of evidence in the house indicated there was a struggle, let alone they were dead.

 

[Tortoise]

It was mentioned in Ryan's testimony on Day 35 Part 3, about 16 minute mark is my best guess. Specifically F39, the swab of the passenger door handle/window/lock.

No not Ryan, I'm asking about your statement that the prosecution have mentioned numerous times that his DNA wasn't found on the passenger side.

The only mention I can recall is when they submitted the results into evidence.

 

[missy1974]

No not Ryan, I'm asking about your statement that the prosecution have mentioned numerous times that his DNA wasn't found on the passenger side.

The only mention I can recall is when they submitted the results into evidence.

oh well, I didn't make notes of each and every time I've heard it, another reason I wish we had the court transcripts LOL It even came up during the judges motion to dismiss. If I hear any of them as I'm listening to testimony, I'll let you know.

 

[katydid23]

I think because this is something that came up in earlier testimony... when McGee asked the CSI tech if it could have been urine.

I am surprised that the prosecution didn't bring up and challenge her on the fact that Ryan was able to determine there was DNA consistent with Merritt's on the passenger door. This has been something they have mentioned numerous times, that his DNA wasn't found on that side of the Trooper, so I would think they would want to challenge her on that interpretation, unless maybe they couldn't and didn't want to highlight that fact.

But does it matter if he touched the passenger door or not?

 

[smr]

I am surprised that the prosecution didn't bring up and challenge her on the fact that Ryan was able to determine there was DNA consistent with Merritt's on the passenger door. This has been something they have mentioned numerous times, that his DNA wasn't found on that side of the Trooper, so I would think they would want to challenge her on that interpretation, unless maybe they couldn't and didn't want to highlight that fact.

But does it matter if he touched the passenger door or not?

Apparently it did matter for the PT for some time, or else why did they mention numerous times CM's DNA wasn't found on the passenger side door? Now that it has been found on the passenger side door, it doesn't matter any more?

 

[katydid23]

What really concerns me is, where were they attacked and how were they removed into a vehicle, without leaving stains on the walls, floors, ceiling, soaked into upholstry and matresses, lamp shades, woodwork, trim, windows, the sidewalk and vehicle? You can't sneak up on 4 people and tidily smash their heads in, they run away, they break and throw things, they touch their wound and then touch other things leaving blood everywhere. The killer is covered with blood and leaves it everywhere.

If you leave bodies where they die, the amount of blood will be immense, if you move the bodies quickly, you will leave a trail.

This is the comment from the current case of a woman who was blindfolded and then beaten: "Inside Berreth’s home in the Colorado mountain town, she was confronted with an unthinkable scene....Her words were when she opened the door, it was horrific... there was blood everywhere. She was tasked with disposing of certain items -- including a bloody Bible and the sweater she claims Frazee used to cover Berreth’s eyes -- as well as wiping the blood off surfaces around the home." CBI: Idaho nurse claimed Patrick Frazee fatally beat Kelsey Berreth, burned her body

She was a nurse, so experienced with creating perfectly clean environments. And she had to deal with the scene for only one victim, not for four, and for a person blindfolded before being attacked. Was CM a clean freak, would he notice every stain? Wouldn't three women cleaning the home for sale notice blood stains he'd missed?

She was a nurse but she was also a prolific liar so I am not sure we can believe her gruesome account

It is possible to contain blood.
He may have attacked Joey first by blindsiding him. It could have happened anywhere. He may have been lured out of the home even

If the rest of the family was gathered up and tied up—-there are many ways he could have
Contained the blood evidence

If they were killed in the bathroom or the tub, what are the chances thrrr would be left over evidence after do much time passed?

Also, he had millions of tarps. He could have thrown one down on the tile floor when he finished them off.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Yes.

Was he a participating part of the long ongoing investigation after the bodies were found?

Imo

 

[katydid23]

Apparently it did matter for the PT for some time, or else why did they mention numerous times CM's DNA wasn't found on the passenger side door? Now that it has been found on the passenger side door, it doesn't matter any more?

It mattered because he said he only sat in the passenger side not the drivers side.

But since he is s minor contributor, above Summer even on the steering wheel, then it really isn’t that big of a concern

 

[katydid23]

I'm not sure of the force thing after listening to Dr. C. And the damage to Summer's jaw and face I find it hard to believe there was no blood. JMO Also, IMO, the bathrooms were not 'clean' enough to indicate there was a clean up. Dirt in the tubs, clothes, newspapers, other items with no signs of blood on them but still in there, even something as simple as a roll of toilet paper still sitting there leads me to believe that is not the case.

If a tarp was thrown onto the floor the surrounding dirt would remain and that could explain it

 

[citygirl]

I agree, the investigation was definitely long but IMO, not thorough. Thorough as defined is “painstakingly careful and accurate, meticulous”. IMO, the quality of the investigation was the antonym of thorough, which is defined as “superficial, careless and partial”.

And there could very well be someone on the jury that thinks the same. We shall see.

 

[Mica]

Was he a participating part of the long ongoing investigation after the bodies were found?

Imo

Who McMahon?

 

[smr]

 

[citygirl]

I thought he ran out of time during the cross snd was returning? Weird

Me too. Felt he had only just begun? Disappointed as I was looking for more.

 

[Satchie]

Why does the prosecution assert they were murdered at home? Even MM said in the March 2010 interview video that there was no struggle and they likely were lured out of the home. That was when it's not even known they were dead. No a shred of evidence in the house indicated there was a struggle, let alone they were dead.

I think they just don't know what happened, the evidence is a hot mess (eg the neighbour's testimony about her surveillance footage) and they just don't want to draw attention to that. It would weaken their case, so they're glossing over it.

I don't doubt CM's motive, but I think it's a weak case without the reconstruction of how it was done.

If he had the ability to control the family, then I think he'd remove them from the home, precisely to avoid leaving a mess to later clean up, precisely to reinforce the idea they'd left voluntarily.

 

[smr]

 

[katydid23]

I wonder why then “Sheriff McMahon,” a seasoned LE official, initially believed “the killings appeared to be “extremely orchestrated” and carried out by more than one person.” What made him say that? Evidence in the graves? Or just an “automatic assumption?”

I think an assumption based upon the number of people killed snd the Trooper being staged, etc

 

[casesensitive]

IMO, pretty poor prosecution talent and pretty poor defense. Hope the jury gets it right despite this. If I was on the jury, I would want to convict CM to a life sentence, with no chance of parole. I don't feel that the state had enough to go full tilt on a death sentence. That would imply a slam dunk case which includes DNA evidence.

Many first-degree murder cases are down graded to second-degree to ensure a guilty verdict. It's hard to prove even first-degree murders. I think a first-degree murder charge would have been wise in this case. It only takes one juror to cause a hung jury in a death penalty case. I can see this happening. JMO

 

[tmar]

Besides the one described above, there was the Groene Family murders where one intruder entered a home with 2 pit bulls, a very large strong adult man, his wife and a tall strong 13 yr old son and 2 children. He killed the adults and the teen and kidnapped the children

People thought there were at least 2 intruders

There is another case that comes to mind but I cannot remember the name. I saw it unfold on the 1st 48. One family member killed a family of 4—using a gun and a knife he killed 2 adults and 2 teens, all by himself

The detectives were looking for 2 suspects and were certain it was more than one killer involved at first

There is also this case:
GUILTY DC - Savvas Savopoulos, family & Veralicia Figueroa murdered; Daron Wint Arrested #24

 

[katydid23]

I think they just don't know what happened, the evidence is a hot mess (eg the neighbour's testimony about her surveillance footage) and they just don't want to draw attention to that. It would weaken their case, so they're glossing over it.

I don't doubt CM's motive, but I think it's a weak case without the reconstruction of how it was done.

If he had the ability to control the family, then I think he'd remove them from the home, precisely to avoid leaving a mess to later clean up, precisely to reinforce the idea they'd left voluntarily.

I don’t agree. If he had them under control in the home then he had the ability to control the blood snd the forensics by using plastic bags on their heads or laying them in a tub or laying firm tarps

Taking them out of the home alive makes it much harder to control everything snd adds all kinds of variables like witnesses and surveillance cams. Etc

 

[missy1974]

But does it matter if he touched the passenger door or not?

It matters IMO He said he was in the vehicle weeks previous, no DNA found there, so he must have been lying, right? Now it's said it's possibly there and there is 'nothing to see here'.