CA - Joey, Summer, Gianni, Joseph Jr McStay Murders - Feb 4th 2010 #7

[missy1974]

OK! The reason i think this could be key is that the defence case is DK did it. But if DK has some alibi evidence, I think the defence case could quickly be on the rocks, unless CM is going to start building his alibi in 2019.



Agreed she may have known, but the volume of calls suggests she needed to get hold of him.

I too am looking forward to finding out why that was!



I think the volume of calls suggests an urgent need to talk to Chase. He called her as soon as he turned back on at 9,30 pm - that is my inference anyway.

But there seems to be a pattern. They seem to have lots of calls grouped like that. I went back to the phone dudes testimony, I was trying to get good screenshots and I just couldn't get "not blurry" shots of some of the records. (I think they may be shown in other testimony and more clear but don't feel like hunting them down lol) IIRC though, the calls to CJ before he met with Joey were all short calls. Go back to his interview with Dugal/Fiske, even then, 3 times before they could have a 30 second conversation.

I was able to grab a screenshot that shows other calls going to VM and not connecting to the tower. The one on the bottom is on the 8th, it's being used by the pro's to say that he was planting the Trooper that day. But you will see that on the 7th, there were also calls that weren't connecting to a tower and went to VM. If you watch the testimony, and you have to slow down youtube to see it all, but you can see other calls as well. And these are just on the few days that we can see. I want to see days before and lots of days after LOL

Cell record's can be seen in this video:

 

[JMarsh]

In his interview, he said he paid with a credit card or ATM card ...

Then LE should have been able to verify that piece. But it's also possible Chase wasn't really paying close attention, and that on that day Joey did pay with cash.

What I'm confused about is why it matters. Or why anyone thinks there is anything suspicious about the location. According to verified phone records both men part ways from that meeting and very shortly after ping towers consistent with them being home. Who cares exactly where they ate for lunch or how payment was made? Whatever occurred to the McStays clearly happened after that meeting.

 

[missy1974]

One of the difficulties of the state case is there is no one witness who can assemble the day for us

This I can totally agree with you about haha The jumping around in testimony is.... not good IMO Even just going back to find things in testimony, it jumps around so much, it's hard to find. It just does not seem to be very cohesive. But JMO

 

[Bernina]

Remember the days when DNA was proof of an individual touching something, physically being somewhere, physically interacting with someone or something?
Yeah, good times........be careful who you shake hands with..........said no forensic expert I've ever heard say on the stand.

 

[Mica]

I still strongly suspect, CM had something to do with the mysterious illness. I'm reading PM's book right now and he mentions that JM got incredibly ill, on the way home AFTER meeting with CM. Hmmmm...

Did PM say where he got that info from? If it was from the phone call from Joey to Susan after he pulled off the road on the 4th, that has been debunked.

 

[JMarsh]

As i said, why don't we just drop it here?

It's boring for everyone else to fill the thread with us disagreeing.

It's really ok if you can't support your claims. There isn't definitive information either way. And it will be for the jury to decide-as they are the decider of the facts. I just take issue with your claim that I am not using the evidence available to us to support my claims. That is untrue.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

That didn't sit well with me. He pushed his responsibility for his whereabouts on her. I'm sure seasoned investigators picked up on that. MOO.

That foolish decision may very well come back to haunt him when CJ testifies, and I absolutely believe she will for the state. Lips get looser once years have passed since the relationship has ended.

We see this happen quite often in other murder cases when a witness was once in a relationship with the accused, but the relationship had ended. The longer it's been over it gives the witness more courage to testify to things they have long known about the accused. Many have been exes who had children with the accused.

I think CJ may even become one of the key witnesses in the state's case.

Imo, it won't be only about her trying to call the accused that fateful day, but more will be divulged about the man on trial.

She has to know a lot of things about him since she lived right inside the home with the conman.

If the investigators weren't getting more, and more valuable information from CJ they wouldn't have interviewed her several times since the PH. I think little by little, she is opening up to them about things she knows.

It will be interesting if at times he also conned her too.

She's had ample time now to reflect back on everything, and may now see big red flags, that she pushed out of her mind at the time convincing herself they meant nothing but is no longer in a state of denial..

So hmmmm, he relied on her recollection? Alrighty then, let's see what she has to say about everything she recalls.

Whatever it is it has to be correct according to CM, since he left it all up to her to be the most credible of the two. That means he thinks her memory recall is much better than his, and much more credible.

Poor man, it's a shame when he was only in his 50s at the time, that he had to rely solely on CJ, about the very day his very best friend, and his family suddenly vanished just hours after he had just met with who he claims was his very best friend.

Imo, again, CM seems to have convenient selective memory recall.

Jmo

 

[JMarsh]

OK! The reason i think this could be key is that the defence case is DK did it. But if DK has some alibi evidence, I think the defence case could quickly be on the rocks, unless CM is going to start building his alibi in 2019.



Agreed she may have known, but the volume of calls suggests she needed to get hold of him.

I too am looking forward to finding out why that was!



I think the volume of calls suggests an urgent need to talk to Chase. He called her as soon as he turned back on at 9,30 pm - that is my inference anyway.

According to testimony the wife also called Chase numerous times earlier that day, just before Chase's lunch meeting with Joey.

 

[JMarsh]

If Merritt's credibility for truthfulness, (I chuckle even putting CM, and the word truthfulness together) was rock solid then his alibi would also be rock solid.

However, people who have verified rock solid alibis are ruled out as having no involvement in crimes, because their alibi when verified is found to be rock solid, instead of being ruled in as the murder suspect.

If the evidence found by the investigators found CMs credibility to be rock solid we wouldn't be here following his death penalty murder trial.

Imo

Actually it isn't always true that those with rock solid alibis are ruled out. David Camm would argue that it is entirely possible: David Camm - Wikipedia

It is true that it is the jury who will decide how reliable Chase's version of events is. So we'll see.

 

[Force Ten]

I didn’t say in testimony. Dugal said he confirmed the lunch meeting in a documentary. I’ll see if I can find it.

Iirc he stated "I absolutely confirmed that".

In hindsight I have to take some of the things he's said now. He also stated he knew their accounts better than his own. Either he's absolutely horrible with accounting. Although, no one knew about the deleted checks until Hanke got into the QB.

 

[missy1974]

To piggy back off your screenshot, I'm assuming the that the numbers to the right of the given times is the duration it took for his phone to connect to a tower and indicates signal strength? So for example, 0.0009 is when he was at CFL and other, 0.2724 is when he was driving. The 8:27 call shows up as .0712, perhaps this indicates the phone was outside the home.

I don't recall exactly what it was, but IIRC it was the time to load. I will go back in a bit and see if I can figure out what day this came out and where it is in testimony. Found it... He doesn't say what those mean at this spot, but I thought that's what it was, might be mentioned elsewhere in the video.

19:00 of this video:

 

[missy1974]

When do we get the next witnesses?

I feel back in the mood for this case

Tomorrow... maybe... providing no one get's injured, Maline gets there on time, the judge doesn't have to take a call and/or there is a freak snowstorm

 

[JMarsh]

True! Because when I caught a glimpse of Joey's cell records for the 4th, there were internet access times that were at 2 hour interval's all night, my first thought was an email app being left open and it was checking every 2 hours ;-) I believe it was before this screenshot (higher up on the paper), I could see 2:35, 4:35, 6:35, 8:35, 10:35, 12:35 (can see the last 2 on the screenshot), but of course, email will only check every 2 hours if you are not active. If I go check my email, it will be exactly 2 hours after that last check.

I have wondered if the 8:27pm internet access time was an email check, which would mean he had last been active in his email at 6:27. Just a thought.

I suspect Joey had simply kept his browser open and T-mobile generates IPs as you move around. With the rapid altering of those IP addresses, it looks more like the phone was just making sure Joey was able to maintain a connection to the internet.

 

[JMarsh]

But there seems to be a pattern. They seem to have lots of calls grouped like that. I went back to the phone dudes testimony, I was trying to get good screenshots and I just couldn't get "not blurry" shots of some of the records. (I think they may be shown in other testimony and more clear but don't feel like hunting them down lol) IIRC though, the calls to CJ before he met with Joey were all short calls. Go back to his interview with Dugal/Fiske, even then, 3 times before they could have a 30 second conversation.

I was able to grab a screenshot that shows other calls going to VM and not connecting to the tower. The one on the bottom is on the 8th, it's being used by the pro's to say that he was planting the Trooper that day. But you will see that on the 7th, there were also calls that weren't connecting to a tower and went to VM. If you watch the testimony, and you have to slow down youtube to see it all, but you can see other calls as well. And these are just on the few days that we can see. I want to see days before and lots of days after LOL

Cell record's can be seen in this video:

This phone record snippet is interesting for another reason, look specifically at the calls on the 7th.

 

[missy1974]

What if her phone pinged in Mira Loma as well

I have actually wondered if she was working, where did she work? I don't know where she worked at the time though.

 

[JMarsh]

Right now, I would say he doesn't have an alibi that I know of ;-)

Just because she couldn't get a hold of him, doesn't mean she didn't know where he was, I don't have evidence of that. Hopefully she will testify and if she recalls she can tell us herself! I have been able to get a glance at the cell records, there were other times calls went to VM's with no tower info and until we see his full records, I don't know that it was even out of the ordinary.

Just as an example... I can know where my husband is, but his phone for some reason isn't connecting and I have to leave a VM, it doesn't mean I don't know where he is, it means I couldn't get through on his cell. (This happens more than you know lol When he goes out to nowhere Saskatchewan and can't get cell service, but he's learned over the years to always text me where he is before he leaves the city - good man, cuz I'm a worrier lol)

I'm inclined to think that his cell phone was off, but I just don't know that right now. And because I can see some serious issues with their cell service, I just don't know yet. Even listening to the Chase interview, when he calls her, it takes 3 times to get connected. They lose connection, they can't hear each other, and then finally they connect.

All JMO

The wife has a habit of calling Chase a lot, if the few different snippets we looked at are any indication. Also, she calls him numerous times earlier on the 4th as well.

We also know that Chase can be just meeting with people when his phone is off, as it was when he met with Carmen Garcia at Metro.

 

[missy1974]

I still strongly suspect, CM had something to do with the mysterious illness. I'm reading PM's book right now and he mentions that JM got incredibly ill, on the way home AFTER meeting with CM. Hmmmm...

IF that was on the 4th, I believe that is based off of false information. IF it is the 4th, and it's true, then SOMEONE saw or spoke to Joey after he left that meeting, right?

This is where Susan saying she spoke to him on the 4th and he had pulled over because he was ill and called her or something came up. I do not believe this to be the case.

 

[Force Ten]

I have always wondered if the process of renovating their home might have introduced Joey and Summer to persons they might not have normally allowed in their home. It is rare that people hired to do renovations kill those they work for, but the last time I was involved in this I found out after the fact that a number of the people I had in my home-who I was alone with-were ex-felons and one I discovered later was heavily using drugs while on the job. I had suspected something, but he was pretty functional.

I think about Jayme Closs and Jake Patterson. If Jayme Closs hadn't survived and had instead been buried and found years later, some distance away from the scene of the crimes, and there had been little to no forensics available, would LE ever have thought to look at Patterson? Or would they instead have combed through the family and friends of the Closs family, perhaps zeroing on someone who had some inappropriate sexual behaviour in their past?

Maybe this crime is so difficult to solve, because there is a somewhat random element to it? That the motive is not what we would expect?

I also think about the fact that up to this time the McStay's life flowed along headed in a positive trajectory. The changes in their life at the time they were killed were an increase in success and there is the separation of Joey from Dan as business partners, but the big change in their lives is location and what they were involved in doing in that house.

Other than Chase they didn't have many contractors in their home. Only the painter, Carlos, and the person from MJ Flooring who did the flooring measure.

 

[asyousay]

If the prosecution have concrete evidence that Chase had lunch with Joey then I want to see the evidence of that. I also want a explanation for the fact that they had a two hour lunch and as soon as that lunch ends Joey is ringing Chase up again.

It doesn’t add up.

 

[Force Ten]

The wife has a habit of calling Chase a lot, if the few different snippets we looked at are any indication. Also, she calls him numerous times earlier on the 4th as well.

We also know that Chase can be just meeting with people when his phone is off, as it was when he met with Carmen Garcia at Metro.

We know she was calling him up to six times that evening, this is not indicative of a 'habit'. He wasn't returning her calls. Where are you seeing she called him several times earlier?