GUILTY CA - Leila Fowler, 8, murdered, 12yo charged, Valley Springs, 27 Apr 2013 - #4

[winterrose]

I tried to imagine what could have made him so angry. I am wondering if it had to do with the pain of missing his mother. He would be closer to her than his little sister was, because she was still young. He may have missed his mom very much and been very hurt and angry. Maybe he felt abandoned and rejectedSo I wonder if his little sister might have said something derogatory about Priscilla, like " she is not our mom anymore , Crystal is." Maybe he became angry and lashed out at poor Leila because of that rage he had seething. JMO

Quite possible, in light of the public posts on CW's fb about PR that could be so hurtful for children hearing, if they were. Kids love their parents and in divorce/custody it's best to keep comments away from them in private. If this was the cause, it could've been anyone that was the recipient of any rage. The week before this happened BF filed for more child support from PR, who was on disability, the kids could have been hearing alot of adult conversation about it.

 

[MsFacetious]

Quite possible, in light of the public posts on CW's fb about PR that could be so hurtful for children hearing, if they were. Kids love their parents and in divorce/custody it's best to keep comments away from them in private. If this was the cause, it could've been anyone that was the recipient of any rage. The week before this happened BF filed for more child support from PR, who was on disability, the kids could have been hearing alot of adult conversation about it.

"I juggle month-to-month to get by," Barney Fowler, 37, the head of the household and father of the five children living there wrote in an April 19 document in which he asked ex-wife S**** Fowler to pay child support for their 14-year-old daughter, *****.

http://www.recordnet.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20130517/A_NEWS/305170322

Documents indicate that Rodriguez receives $533 a month in disability. A court in August last year ordered her to pay $114 a month to Barney Fowler.

http://www.sacbee.com/2013/05/17/5429500/fowler-familys-troubles-detailed.html#storylink=cpy


I haven't seen where he filed for more child support from Priscilla in 2013. Link?

 

[Davereid]

You never know what goes on behind closed doors. And I've read that sibling violence is one of the most common forms of domestic violence.

Yes and least recognized. I have a discussion about this in the Sociology of the Family course I teach. So many people have scoffed at this and said social scientists overanaylyze everything and these are kids being kids. I always reply, "you ask the rape victims, bullied and tortured victims that shared their stories in this reader I have with if they were overanalyzed"; they have little to back their original claim after that.
BF had a lot of kids. Realistically the more kids you have the less attention gets spent on each. Some, sadly fall to the wayside especially if there are younger children to deal with. Sometimes the older ones are given responsibilities they may be resentful for. This is conjecture but with that many children, dealing with exwives, work, a girlfriend and every day stress it is a reasonable assumption if there were subtle signs IF was having issues they could have been overlooked. Perhaps Leila noticed but was too young to handle and deal with the angst of a troubled preadolescent dealing with a broken home.

Sent from my GT-N8013 using Tapatalk 2

 

[menmo]

Yes and least recognized. I have a discussion about this in the Sociology of the Family course I teach. So many people have scoffed at this and said social scientists overanaylyze everything and these are kids being kids. I always reply, "you ask the rape victims, bullied and tortured victims that shared their stories in this reader I have with if they were overanalyzed"; they have little to back their original claim after that.
BF had a lot of kids. Realistically the more kids you have the less attention gets spent on each. Some, sadly fall to the wayside especially if there are younger children to deal with. Sometimes the older ones are given responsibilities they may be resentful for. This is conjecture but with that many children, dealing with exwives, work, a girlfriend and every day stress it is a reasonable assumption if there were subtle signs IF was having issues they could have been overlooked. Perhaps Leila noticed but was too young to handle and deal with the angst of a troubled preadolescent dealing with a broken home.

Sent from my GT-N8013 using Tapatalk 2

Excellent post and I agree!

 

[CHERIE.T]

I tried to imagine what could have made him so angry. I am wondering if it had to do with the pain of missing his mother. He would be closer to her than his little sister was, because she was still young. He may have missed his mom very much and been very hurt and angry. Maybe he felt abandoned and rejectedSo I wonder if his little sister might have said something derogatory about Priscilla, like " she is not our mom anymore , Crystal is." Maybe he became angry and lashed out at poor Leila because of that rage he had seething. JMO

Just guessing....I think IF snapped because something very specific happened that he didn't like. I favor that more than a missing his mom scenario. :moo:

 

[CNNAnh]

Wao, I feel so sad for Priscilla!
Barney obviously father many children with different women (nothing is wrong with that, that his rights)
but what I feel so SAD about is Priscilla who is on DISABILITY of only $533 a month, and Barney bring her to court and order her to pay child support $114

Wao, I don't know what to say, maybe I am bias toward women but Barney is a grown big man, he doesn't even have $114 a month? Why so cheap on his ex-wife Priscilla. She already pitiful enough of survive on $533
IMO, If I was the man, even with divorce, and I see my wife situation is on Disability. I would never ask her for child support, because I see her rely on monthly disability money is already pitiful enough.

Anyways, if this 12 year old brother snap, I can totally see why.
I would be unhappy if I see my father have so many children with other women, and asked for my disablity mother pay for child support. And won't let her be at the funeral.
Anyone know if Priscilla was able to visit Leila's and the brother? Usually when a couple divorce, mom/dad should able to see their kids on the weekend.

And if Barney claimed that he struggle month to month to get by, then why he custody ALL the children to himself? Why not let the 12 year olds boy live with Priscilla? Maybe this whole murder thing wouldn't have happened.
Amazing how he claimed he not have alot of money, but court give full custody rights of all the children to Barney, and Barney monthly ask his ex-wives for child support money.

 

[winterrose]

Yes, it is all quite confusing, just wanted to make sure that didn't take off as a rumor! :seeya:

ITA It wouldn't really have become a rumor though, it would just be the wrong mother's name. KWIM

 

[coastal]

Interesting article:

CDC: 1 In 5 US Children May Have Mental Disorder
May 18, 2013 10:05 AM
>>>snip

...According to a study conducted by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, up to 20 percent of American children are suffering from mental disorders such as attention-deficit hyperactivity disorder (ADHD), anxiety, depression and autism.

The CDC’s first study of mental disorders among children aged 3 to 17 also found that the cost of medical bills for treatment of such disorders is up to $247 billion each year...

(article continues)

<<<snip

http://atlanta.cbslocal.com/2013/05/18/cdc-1-in-5-us-children-may-have-mental-disorder/

 

[winterrose]

[video=youtube;TeCXsWvOhV0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TeCXsWvOhV0[/video]
You can see how close the water was to the house they searched, at around 1:20 with the FBI on the deck.

 

[PoirotryInMotion]

.....

 

[winterrose]

http://fox40.com/2013/05/05/no-arrests-one-week-after-leila-fowlers-killing/ LE said they were searching two 4 ft deep ponds near the home, but didn't find anything.

http://www.wzzm13.com/video/2359815541001/1/Divers-search-pond-for-evidence-in-Leila-Fowler-murder

 

[gitana1]

We don't know their financial situation.

We don't know if they're section 8 or if they receive food stamps.

Btw I have a neighbor who pays $ 48 a month in rent on her section 8 rental home. Has a live in boyfriend on SSI who works full time under the table, food stamps... New vehicles in the drive in relatives names. They throw huge parties all summer long complete with a moon bounce, steaks and ribs! They also breed labs ... Pups go for 1200 each and both of her dogs knock out 9-10 pups a litter.

It's more common then ya think.

It infuriates my husband,

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

800-792-9773. That's the number to report welfare fraud in New Jersey.

I see a lot of comments about this child being a psychopath or sociopath (antisocial personality disorder). Given what sounds like "rage" during the attack, isn't it also possible that he was very angry about something in relation to his sister? For example, was he jealous? Could he have felt threatened by her? For example, did she have something on him? It seems to me that many types of people commit murder ... not only those with antisocial personality disorder. Was he resentful? For example, was he the live-in babysitter such that he could not do things that he wanted to do?

It is so rare for a 12 year old to stab a sibling repeatedly, until they die. It takes special effort, likely, as they more than likely didn't just have the knife in their hand when the sibling suddenly made them mad. So there is some thought involved. Some sort of planning, generally.

Also, stabbing a screaming, terrified little 8 year old to death is so gruesome. You know she was thrashing and trying to get away, which means he aaa tryin to control her with one hand while stabbing with the other. That also takes though and makes the murder all the more horrifying.

I think those things combine to make a person feel there may be special issues like sociopathy, involved.

The remarks came after the boy attended a closed juvenile court proceeding and was told he had been charged with second-degree murder with a special allegation for use of a dangerous weapon in the stabbing death of his 8-year-old sister.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/05/1...lif-boy-mature-enough-to-aid-defense-against/

bbm. This has me puzzled. Is this reference a knife?

Yes. As we know she was stabbed, a knife would be the deadly weapon.

yes, IMO the dangerous weapon refers to a knife in this instance although it could also refer to a gun or other weapon in another case. I think it is part of the statute that is being applied because a weapon was used.

Exactly.

Which is odd, because if you MURDERED someone you obviously used a deadly weapon.
Since they are, dead.

Is that just for actual WEAPONS like guns and knives?
Or can any kinds of murder fall into that category?
Water? Rope? Poison? A car? A baseball bat? Your bare hands?

Water or bare hands or poisonous substances generally would not be classified as dangerous weapons. Only tools in categories we would typically classify as weaponry.

good questions MsF. I am sure it is statutory but it does seem redundant. Maybe gitana1 will weigh in when she checks the thread.

It's not. Beating a person to death would not be a special allegation unless the person was a child or disabled or elderly, I believe.

Even someone convicted of 1st degree who is under 16 cannot face DP in CA.

Penalty for &#8710; found guilty of 1st degree murder who is b/w 16 and 18 is LWOP unless the court chooses a sentence of 25yrs to life.

- Juveniles serving JLWOP: 250
- Juveniles aged 13-14 serving JLWOP: 0

http://www.usfca.edu/law/jlwop/resource_guide/

I wonder it the aggravating factor of dangerous weapon is being sought simply "for the record" in order to enhance the odds that I.F. will not be as likely to be able to take advantage of Senate Bill 9 which went into effect this January

http://www.fairsentencingforyouth.o...-bill-9-california-fair-sentencing-for-youth/

The bill:

http://www.fairsentencingforyouth.org/wp/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/SB-9-Chaptered.pdf

No. SB 9 would not apply to him as he's not be sentenced to life already and he won't be. The special allegation adds to his possible sentence.

It rather suggests me the pocketknife...otherwise the wording might simply be a knife IMO.

Any knife is eligible for dangerous weapon classification as long as its sharper than a butter knife.

The SacBee says "a special allegation for use of a dangerous weapon" and that is what I have read elsewhere.

http://www.sacbee.com/2013/05/15/5422278/leila-fowler-calaveras-county.html

While this special allegation seems like it would be useful in other types of crime, ie kidnapping or rape are possible without a weapon, it seems redundant as an enhancement to a murder. Committing murder without a dangerous weapon would more unusual. That's why I think there must be more to this.

Murder via strangulation, smothering, drowning or beating someone to death is not unusual.

This is simply a sentencing enhancement, nothing more. There's nothing more to be read into it.

 

[winterrose]

This is the closest water to the house from a map of Rippon Rd. Someone might have posted it already, but it's been awhile. There's a smaller one next to someone's house, not sure if these are the two they checked. They didn't find anything and noone saw him leave the house, so either LE found the weapon, someone helped get rid of the weapon or he's very good at hiding things with LE searching for weeks.

 

[TheDuchess]

This is the closest water to the house from a map of Rippon Rd. Someone might have posted it already, but it's been awhile. There's a smaller one next to someone's house, not sure if these are the two they checked. They didn't find anything and noone saw him leave the house, so either LE found the weapon, someone helped get rid of the weapon or he's very good at hiding things with LE searching for weeks.

I remember them taking knives from the home at some point, they never said if they were inside the home or where they got them from. So wondering if they never found a murder weapon. That is a huge piece of the puzzle. How would he be able to get rid of the murder weapon? They scoured that house and the ponds and the entire area. He doesn't drive or have a car, so how would he be able to get rid of the weapon? Wondering what evidence they do have, is it simply a lack of evidence of anyone else being at the house? There would seem to have to be more.

 

[Linda7NJ]

Wao, I feel so sad for Priscilla!
Barney obviously father many children with different women (nothing is wrong with that, that his rights)
but what I feel so SAD about is Priscilla who is on DISABILITY of only $533 a month, and Barney bring her to court and order her to pay child support $114

Wao, I don't know what to say, maybe I am bias toward women but Barney is a grown big man, he doesn't even have $114 a month? Why so cheap on his ex-wife Priscilla. She already pitiful enough of survive on $533
IMO, If I was the man, even with divorce, and I see my wife situation is on Disability. I would never ask her for child support, because I see her rely on monthly disability money is already pitiful enough.

Anyways, if this 12 year old brother snap, I can totally see why.
I would be unhappy if I see my father have so many children with other women, and asked for my disablity mother pay for child support. And won't let her be at the funeral.
Anyone know if Priscilla was able to visit Leila's and the brother? Usually when a couple divorce, mom/dad should able to see their kids on the weekend.

And if Barney claimed that he struggle month to month to get by, then why he custody ALL the children to himself? Why not let the 12 year olds boy live with Priscilla? Maybe this whole murder thing wouldn't have happened.
Amazing how he claimed he not have alot of money, but court give full custody rights of all the children to Barney, and Barney monthly ask his ex-wives for child support money.

IMO if the courts gave him full custody the court believed for whatever reason he was the best suited for the job.

Of course Priscilla should pay child support! Geeesh.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Gardenlady]

IMO if the courts gave him full custody the court believed for whatever reason he was the best suited for the job.

Of course Priscilla should pay child support! Geeesh.

But how do you get blood from a stone? She was homeless and on disability - $500 per month is barely enough for one person to survive, if at all, never mind $500 minus the amount of child support she was supposed to say.

And let's not overlook that he himself was supposed to be paying child support for another child. Was he playing some kind of game with the system? Getting custody for the money, so he could in turn pay his own child support owed to other children?

This background, to say the least, is disturbing. Sounds like a lot of upheaval and/or lack of stability for the kids. It's unsurprising to me that one would turn out emotionally/mentally ill.

 

[evelyn24]

You never know what goes on behind closed doors. And I've read that sibling violence is one of the most common forms of domestic violence.

Sad isn't it? Story as old as Cain and Abel.


This case is reminding me of the case from Pennsylvania several years ago where the older brother viciously and fatally stabbed his younger brother as he walked in the front door from school. The older brother faked a sickness and his parents allowed him to stay home and he planned the murder, I think he blamed it on an intruder as well. To this day nobody knows what motivated him to kill his brother. This was a middle class intact family.

The names of the brothers escape me.'

ETA: The brothers were Zach and Greg Witman.

 

[Davereid]

Well I will not judge his number of kids but will offer my opinion. If you are having trouble paying for the kids you have and you have to spend money in court to try and get more money for them; maybe you should consider not having anymore. I think the possibility one might have murdered another also should make you pause before having anymore. IMO

Sent from my GT-N8013 using Tapatalk 2

 

[winterrose]

I remember them taking knives from the home at some point, they never said if they were inside the home or where they got them from. So wondering if they never found a murder weapon. That is a huge piece of the puzzle. How would he be able to get rid of the murder weapon? They scoured that house and the ponds and the entire area. He doesn't drive or have a car, so how would he be able to get rid of the weapon? Wondering what evidence they do have, is it simply a lack of evidence of anyone else being at the house? There would seem to have to be more.

I'll wait to answer that one if anyone else is arrested, until then I think they have alot more evidence we've yet to hear.

 

[tlcya]

But how do you get blood from a stone? She was homeless and on disability - $500 per month is barely enough for one person to survive, if at all, never mind $500 minus the amount of child support she was supposed to say.

And let's not overlook that he himself was supposed to be paying child support for another child. Was he playing some kind of game with the system? Getting custody for the money, so he could in turn pay his own child support owed to other children?

This background, to say the least, is disturbing. Sounds like a lot of upheaval and/or lack of stability for the kids. It's unsurprising to me that one would turn out emotionally/mentally ill.

Blood from a stone. So Priscilla gets a by because she's on disability. Does Barney get one on the kid he had to be ordered to pay support on? Afterall, he is supporting how many kids? If mom's aren't paying support to him for the children he is raising, I would think that would affect his ability to pay for the one he isn't.

I don't get it. It seems like the suggestion is that Barney is a bad guy because he asks for minimal support of $114 per month for two children he is raising. Barney is also a bad guy apparently because another mother has to get an order to have him pay support for one he is not raising. Is there any circumstance in which Barney is NOT the bad guy?

Curious.