GUILTY CA - Leila Fowler, 8, murdered, 12yo charged, Valley Springs, 27 Apr 2013 - #4

[eileenhawkeye]

That's another huge if ...


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I don't see it as a huge IF at all...It wouldn't be shocking if a 12-year-old who committed murder had also mutilated animals.

 

[marycarney]

I have a legitimate question. How is the above not a violation of:

"Bashing and/or accusing one of the parents based on your own experiences/ speculation is not allowed. It doesn't belong here and, in the long run, would not be in the best interest of the minors. If you must, take it to pm land (but don't talk about pm'ing on the thread - just do it)."

While not directly "bashing" or "accusing" the parents, it is certainly indirectly bashing them.

I was not bashing anyone - directly or indirectly. I was attempting to point out that the situation this child found himself might contribute to his feelings / actions. Nothing more, nothing less. My apologies.

 

[winterrose]

I hope they keep the trial public, so many things will become more clear. I imagine everything brought out in the article today will be used in the defense. LE is still investigating, we've yet to hear calls to the house, school reports, witnesses, etc that we'll hear later. I have a feeling we might read more on the lawyer's twitter account before then.

 

[Linda7NJ]

I don't see it as a huge IF at all...It wouldn't be shocking if a 12-year-old who committed murder had also mutilated animals.

I wouldn't be shocked either.

However, when were these ALLEDGED animal mutilations reported? It's my understanding it was reported after the murder. If you caught a child mutilating an animal, what would you do? I'd call 911 immediately! If the witness to this didn't report it, I'd be deeply horrified!

As of right now, the allegations are just that.


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[Ghostwheel]

And I respect your opinion.

However; the burden shouldn't be placed on one parent only. Whatever income is brought in by the non-custodial parent.... part of it should be given to the child/children who is/are being raised by the other parent.

I believe the court did have child support deductions taken out of the mother's check who is on SSI did they not? It is a law that child support payments are to be made and if they aren't then the parent can either land in jail or the government can take it out of funds the non-custodial parent may have. Even taking their income tax refund.

Usually 25% is the customary child deduction range unless the non-custodial parent has insurmountable wealth.

It is not about what the other parent is capable of doing or how much money they make. It is about a non-custodial parent meeting their responsibilities of helping to support their children. The gender of that non-custodial parent should be completely unbiased and irrelevant.

The non-custodial parent really has it so much easier than the custodial parent and IMO the least they can do is contribute financially to the wellbeing of their own children. They have no right to have the attitude that oh well the other parent doesn't need the money so why pay. All that does is become a petty matter between the parents when it should be about doing the right thing for the children.

So I still say if someone is going to bring children in this world then they need to step up and do the right thing and disregard the petty arguments between the two adults and concentrate on what is the most important issue and that is the children.

I fully believe that whoever is the non-custodial parent .....whether that is the father or the mother.... they have a responsibility to pay child support.

JMO

BBM: I really don't agree with this, either, but I guess it depends on what kind of custody issues an individual has seen. If you have a non-custodial parent who wants to see their child on a regular basis, they definitely do not have it easier. But we can agree to disagree. I think it all boils down to the custodial issues each of us has known.

 

[eileenhawkeye]

I hope they keep the trial public, so many things will become more clear. I imagine everything brought out in the article today will be used in the defense. LE is still investigating, we've yet to hear calls to the house, school reports, witnesses, etc that we'll hear later. I have a feeling we might read more on the lawyer's twitter account before then.

So you think the defense is going to have IF plead guilty?

In juvenile court, does the judge rule whether the defendant is guilty or not-guilty, and if found guilty, do they then have another phase where each side presents their arguments as to why the defendant should get whatever punishment?

 

[Linda7NJ]

Maybe it did happen in a vacuum.


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[Linda7NJ]

So you think the defense is going to have IF plead guilty?

In juvenile court, does the judge rule whether the defendant is guilty or not-guilty, and if found guilty, do they then have another phase where each side presents their arguments as to why the defendant should get whatever punishment?

IMO it's not about punishment, it's about rehabilitation. He will be sent off to a secure therapeutic residential center...


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[eileenhawkeye]

I wouldn't be shocked either.

However, when were these ALLEDGED animal mutilations reported? It's my understanding it was reported after the murder. If you caught a child mutilating an animal, what would you do? I'd call 911 immediately! If the witness to this didn't report it, I'd be deeply horrified!

As of right now, the allegations are just that.


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Here's the exact line about it:

But on the same day he was charged with murder, Calaveras County homicide detectives confirm that they’re investigating reports of alleged animal mutilations at the hands of the boy.

If it is true, we should find out soon enough.

http://fox40.com/2013/05/15/investigators-look-into-past-of-leila-fowlers-brother/#ixzz2TaIC4i4n

 

[MustlyLurking]

Unless nobody noticed the signs. :moo:

Do we know about the "signs?" I have seen plenty of speculation, and done plenty myself. But, if there are facts I have missed them? I just do not recall the specifics.

IMO We would expect there to be a long progression of some type of behavior problems, but it seems possibly, although unlikely, that there were none.

 

[winterrose]

So you think the defense is going to have IF plead guilty?

In juvenile court, does the judge rule whether the defendant is guilty or not-guilty, and if found guilty, do they then have another phase where each side presents their arguments as to why the defendant should get whatever punishment?

There's not a jury, judge decides, but I wouldn't be surprised if after the lawyer sees the evidence he can go in that direction, if it can't be disputed IF did it. From what I understand he hadn't been given the evidence when he commented about "no evidence to prove". I've not read anything from him since the hearing.

 

[Linda7NJ]

Here's the exact line about it:



If it is true, we should find out soon enough.

http://fox40.com/2013/05/15/investigators-look-into-past-of-leila-fowlers-brother/#ixzz2TaIC4i4n

I know, it says a little lower..."now" they're looking into it. After reading that the way it's written... The reports came in earlier and LE is JUST NOW beginning to look into it? If that's true... That's seriously messed up! I would hope in this day and age law enforcement would take animal mutilation very seriously.






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[Linda7NJ]

Do we know about the "signs?" I have seen plenty of speculation, and done plenty myself. But, if there are facts I have missed them? I just do not recall the specifics.

IMO We would expect there to be a long progression of some type of behavior problems, but it seems possibly, although unlikely, that there were none.

I disagree.

If this kid is a psychopath chances are no one saw or ever suspected a thing. They tend to be charming, helpful and respectful.... Even as children.


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[eileenhawkeye]

I know, it says a little lower..."now" they're looking into it. After reading that the way it's written... The reports came in earlier and LE is JUST NOW beginning to look into it? If that's true... That's seriously messed up! I would hope in this day and age law enforcement would take animal mutilation very seriously.






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I wonder...were the animal mutilations reported prior to the murder, but LE didn't know who was behind them, and now they are looking into whether it was IF? Is that what it is saying?

 

[winterrose]

Since LE hasn't commented publicly about any incident reports, like with animals, they might not till the trial. This Sheriff Dept doesn't seem like one that will go back and forth with a lawyer about evidence publicly. This is all just so sad for everyone maybe it's a good idea to just keep it all in the courtroom. I'm surprised the hearing was public since he's not being charged as an adult, actually.

 

[Linda7NJ]

I wonder...were the animal mutilations reported prior to the murder, but LE didn't know who was behind them, and now they are looking into whether it was IF? Is that what it is saying?

I dunno? I'm gonna write to the reporter for clarification ...


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[Elainera]

Salem, I'm so sorry I copied the whole article here with all the names of children :facepalm: Where was my brain? :blushing: Won't happen again! Sorry!

 

[time]

I disagree.

If this kid is a psychopath chances are no one saw or ever suspected a thing. They tend to be charming, helpful and respectful.... Even as children.


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I don't really think even professional know if children can be psychopaths or can be diagnosed as such. I don't think we should label this kid as one.

 

[winterrose]

Didn't we read at the beginning the family had only lived in the house for a few months? If so, they'll probably get reports from the previous school and neighbors from where they lived before. I'm trying to find that article with the neighbor's comments.

http://www.uniondemocrat.com/News/Local-News/Valley-Springs-murder-update

K... L... also lives five or six houses away from where the death occurred. “We are a really close, friendly neighborhood,” she said, “but that house had been rented a couple of times, and I hadn’t met the family yet.”

Still looking, was sure I read about how long they were there.

 

[Linda7NJ]

I don't really think even professional know if children can be psychopaths or can be diagnosed as such. I don't think we should label this kid as one.

I'm not labeling him anything. We know so very little.

Here's some interesting studies on juveniles and psychopathy.

http://psycnet.apa.org/?fa=main.doiLanding&doi=10.1037/0022-006X.72.4.636

http://scholar.google.com/scholar?q...a=X&ei=C6CWUfKKNoPC4AOCx4CYCA&ved=0CCgQgQMwAA




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