GUILTY CA - Leila Fowler, 8, murdered, 12yo charged, Valley Springs, 27 Apr 2013 - #4

[tlcya]

Well I will not judge his number of kids but will offer my opinion. If you are having trouble paying for the kids you have and you have to spend money in court to try and get more money for them; maybe you should consider not having anymore. I think the possibility one might have murdered another also should make you pause before having anymore. IMO

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Any thoughts on the mothers who are not raising their children and are having to pay support for them but who have gone on to have others children? that knife IMO cuts both ways.

 

[Gardenlady]

Blood from a stone. So Priscilla gets a by because she's on disability. Does Barney get one on the kid he had to be ordered to pay support on? Afterall, he is supporting how many kids? If mom's aren't paying support to him for the children he is raising, I would think that would affect his ability to pay for the one he isn't.

I don't get it. It seems like the suggestion is that Barney is a bad guy because he asks for minimal support of $114 per month for two children he is raising. Barney is also a bad guy apparently because another mother has to get an order to have him pay support for one he is not raising. Is there any circumstance in which Barney is NOT the bad guy?

Curious.

Until we know more, I'm inclined to be sympathetic to Leila's mother who was homeless, jobless, receiving an income of $500 a month, and pleaded to be able to talk to her kids. None of us know why he was awarded custody, but the fact remains that her income was barely enough for one person to get by. He must have known that when he went for custody, unless her situation drastically changed to due accident, addiction, or some other possibility. And even then, I'm not sure what he expected to gain by pursuing support after this hypothetical change in income. If one can barely support themself, how are they able to support their children? That's why the saying - you can't get blood from a stone. If there's no money, there's no money.

If anything, it's an argument for better social welfare, but that's for another forum.

It doesn't automatically make anyone a "bad guy", but it does make me wonder what the heck the father was hoping to achieve. And makes me wonder what the home atmosphere was like, with so many support/divorce cases going on in several directions with various parents. It must have been hard for the kids.

 

[Linda7NJ]

But how do you get blood from a stone? She was homeless and on disability - $500 per month is barely enough for one person to survive, if at all, never mind $500 minus the amount of child support she was supposed to say.

And let's not overlook that he himself was supposed to be paying child support for another child. Was he playing some kind of game with the system? Getting custody for the money, so he could in turn pay his own child support owed to other children?

This background, to say the least, is disturbing. Sounds like a lot of upheaval and/or lack of stability for the kids. It's unsurprising to me that one would turn out emotionally/mentally ill.

He was actually paying his court ordered support.

How to get blood from a stone... You automatically deduct the child support.

Men fathering children with different women is nothing new. The only thing slightly different in this case IMO is DAD stepped up to the plate, he didn't become a deadbeat dad, he didn't shirk his responsibilities.
While it may not be our choice for a way of life, it doesn't create mental illness leading to stabbing to death a younger sibling.

A parent doesn't get a free pass from child support.


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[rob]

In my state, if a parent is disabled, the parent collects a full check, and each dependant child collects 1/2 a check. So many families that I know, even when one parent is well and works a full-time job, will continue to have children to pad their income. People will say, just because you are disabled, you should not be barred from having children, true, but once you are disabled, then go on to have 4 or 5 MORE children, something doesn't ring true.

 

[Linda7NJ]

Well I will not judge his number of kids but will offer my opinion. If you are having trouble paying for the kids you have and you have to spend money in court to try and get more money for them; maybe you should consider not having anymore. I think the possibility one might have murdered another also should make you pause before having anymore. IMO

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Condoms are cheaper and much easier than raising children


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[Linda7NJ]

Until we know more, I'm inclined to be sympathetic to Leila's mother who was homeless, jobless, receiving an income of $500 a month, and pleaded to be able to talk to her kids. None of us know why he was awarded custody, but the fact remains that her income was barely enough for one person to get by. He must have known that when he went for custody, unless her situation drastically changed to due accident, addiction, or some other possibility. And even then, I'm not sure what he expected to gain by pursuing support after this hypothetical change in income. If one can barely support themself, how are they able to support their children? That's why the saying - you can't get blood from a stone. If there's no money, there's no money.

If anything, it's an argument for better social welfare, but that's for another forum.

It doesn't automatically make anyone a "bad guy", but it does make me wonder what the heck the father was hoping to achieve. And makes me wonder what the home atmosphere was like, with so many support/divorce cases going on in several directions with various parents. It must have been hard for the kids.

Honestly, she's a grown adult woman living on disability. She said she's homeless. $500 dollars a month is a lot if your not paying bills to keep a roof over your head. She won't starve to death and she needs to pay child support.






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[packerdog]

Wao, I feel so sad for Priscilla!
Barney obviously father many children with different women (nothing is wrong with that, that his rights)
but what I feel so SAD about is Priscilla who is on DISABILITY of only $533 a month, and Barney bring her to court and order her to pay child support $114

Wao, I don't know what to say, maybe I am bias toward women but Barney is a grown big man, he doesn't even have $114 a month? Why so cheap on his ex-wife Priscilla. She already pitiful enough of survive on $533
IMO, If I was the man, even with divorce, and I see my wife situation is on Disability. I would never ask her for child support, because I see her rely on monthly disability money is already pitiful enough.

Anyways, if this 12 year old brother snap, I can totally see why.
I would be unhappy if I see my father have so many children with other women, and asked for my disablity mother pay for child support. And won't let her be at the funeral.
Anyone know if Priscilla was able to visit Leila's and the brother? Usually when a couple divorce, mom/dad should able to see their kids on the weekend.

And if Barney claimed that he struggle month to month to get by, then why he custody ALL the children to himself? Why not let the 12 year olds boy live with Priscilla? Maybe this whole murder thing wouldn't have happened.
Amazing how he claimed he not have alot of money, but court give full custody rights of all the children to Barney, and Barney monthly ask his ex-wives for child support money.

I guess I look at this way, Priscilla is on disability and only gets $533 a month. What is her disability? She can't find any kind of work? If she did have the two children living with her she couldn't afford to raise them right? She can come up with all the reasons in the world for not seeing them, she doesn't seem to interested. Why did BF get custody of the children? I just feel we don't know the whole story.

 

[Cappuccino]

I'm wondering how much of these arguments about child support and access impacted the children though. Some parents have the sense to keep it away from their kids, some don't.

<modsnip>

 

[Linda7NJ]

Sad isn't it? Story as old as Cain and Abel.


This case is reminding me of the case from Pennsylvania several years ago where the older brother viciously and fatally stabbed his younger brother as he walked in the front door from school. The older brother faked a sickness and his parents allowed him to stay home and he planned the murder, I think he blamed it on an intruder as well. To this day nobody knows what motivated him to kill his brother. This was a middle class intact family.

The names of the brothers escape me.'

ETA: The brothers were Zach and Greg Witman.

Yep, the parents in that case remain in denial. Iirc the evidence was overwhelming! Footprint lead right to where, in the backyard, he buried evidence.


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[winterrose]

I'm wondering how much of these arguments about child support and access impacted the children though. Some parents have the sense to keep it away from their kids, some don't.

(Linda7NJ - your PM box is full, that's why I can't answer your last message).

This is true and some don't have that sense, I see it on public fb pages. Goodness knows what the kids hear at home if it's so nasty publicly.

 

[Cappuccino]

This is true and some don't have that sense, I see it on public fb pages. Goodness knows what the kids hear at home if it's so nasty publicly.

Yes, and I seem to remember a bit of nastiness on fb in this case, even AFTER Leila was murdered. If they can't even temporarily drop it in the face of tragedy I dread to think what they were saying to, and about, each other before.

 

[tlcya]

Can someone give me a date/time for the "nasty" comments of FB of CW regarding custody? Please and thank you. I have only found one cryptic comment that mentions the family not needing this right now or something to that effect which I believe was regarding PR's interview.

Have I not gone back far enough? Where IS all this nasty everyone keeps referring to?

ETA I realize the page is now disabled but I DID read that page and I honestly did not see whatever it is others apparently did. Could someone paraphrase <modsnip>. I keep seeing this referenced and I do not see what the fluff is about if all that CW said is what I read. It seem to be an accepted fact that CW trashed PR on FB and I DID NOT SEE ANYTHING OF THE KIND.

 

[Cappuccino]

Can someone give me a date/time for the "nasty" comments of FB of CW regarding custody? Please and thank you. I have only found one cryptic comment that mentions the family not needing this right now or something to that effect which I believe was regarding PR's interview.

Have I not gone back far enough? Where IS all this nasty everyone keeps referring to?

Its been removed. I think the lawyer probably had a word.

 

[packerdog]

Well I will not judge his number of kids but will offer my opinion. If you are having trouble paying for the kids you have and you have to spend money in court to try and get more money for them; maybe you should consider not having anymore. I think the possibility one might have murdered another also should make you pause before having anymore. IMO

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I agree but it takes two not using birth control.

 

[Linda7NJ]

I agree but it takes two not using birth control.

I was raised to believe it was my responsibility as I was the one with the womb.

I'm raising my son to believe its his responsibility as his alone because he's the one with the penis




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[Gardenlady]

He was actually paying his court ordered support.

How to get blood from a stone... You automatically deduct the child support.

Men fathering children with different women is nothing new. The only thing slightly different in this case IMO is DAD stepped up to the plate, he didn't become a deadbeat dad, he didn't shirk his responsibilities.
While it may not be our choice for a way of life, it doesn't create mental illness leading to stabbing to death a younger sibling.

A parent doesn't get a free pass from child support.


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He had to be ordered to get a job last year to pay support for one of those kids. I'm not sure he stepped up to the plate so much as was told to step.

Either way, I'm not sure how you can say a turbulent family life doesnt create mental illness. Do you have proof to back that claim up? I can think of any number of folks who have developed some form of mental illness or another due to their childhood environments.

 

[eileenhawkeye]

IMO, the general sentiment towards Barney would be much worse if he was the mother of at least seven children by at least four different men. There wouldn't be any congratulating him for being a parent to them or saying how amazing it is that he takes care of his kids, that's for sure.

 

[packerdog]

I was raised to believe it was my responsibility as I was the one with the womb.

I'm raising my son to believe its his responsibility as his alone because he's the one with the penis




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I agree. What I was getting at is that if one doesn't have enough sense to use birth control the other should.
The way I grew up and raised my family is that you get married first and wait to have children until you can afford them. It seems that no one in this tangled family believe in this concept. The children suffer.

 

[Linda7NJ]

He had to be ordered to get a job last year to pay support for one of those kids. I'm not sure he stepped up to the plate so much as was told to step.

Either way, I'm not sure how you can say a turbulent family life doesnt create mental illness. Do you have proof to back that claim up? I can think of any number of folks who have developed some form of mental illness or another due to their childhood environments.

without any evidence these particular children have endured a turbulent environment, I can't and won't claim they did.

Thousands upon thousands of children are from homes where the parents divorced less than amicably.... And those children aren't suffering mental illness as a result.


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[Linda7NJ]

I agree. What I was getting at is that if one doesn't have enough sense to use birth control the other should.
The way I grew up and raised my family is that you get married first and wait to have children until you can afford them. It seems that no one in this tangled family believe in this concept. The children suffer.

I was raised the same.
Parents ideally should lead by example .....


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