GUILTY CA - Michelle Hoang Thi Le, 26, Hayward, 27 May 2011

[infamous]

Here is something to consider. The city itself has some cameras. There are 4 at the intersection of Hesprian/Tennyson. You can see it on Google streetview.

94545 - Google Maps

Great find! But I'm wondering if those cameras only snap photos for red light runners. LE should definitely check it out though.

If you run a red light, those cameras can take a photo of your face and show it to you in the mail.

 

[slowpoke]

On the video, the reporter Kraig Debro of KTVU was standing on State Road in Fremont, and I think what he said was that up the road from him a little way on Palomares Rd dozens of volunteers were conducting a search (this would be yesterday's search --Fri).

http://www.ktvu.com/video/28273881/index.html

Then, in KTVU's article, I see that it gives a few things they are looking out for: "White scrubs, white sneakers, and a stethoscope were among the items searchers were looking for as they combed an area of Niles Canyon Road."

http://www.ktvu.com/news/28273464/detail.html

 

[jedi]

Watching those search videos made me cringe a little. They were walking in the middle of the road, side of the roads, etc. Its not very wide in some spots. In Palomares road, not many turn out locations.

Did they have any road warning signs setup for them? Like the ones construction sites have warning of road work ahead? It would have at least gave motorist a heads up about people on the side of the road and to keep slow. I'm sure some construction companies would have let them borrow some for weekend use and Michelle did work for a construction company.

 

[lynxofsd]

Just finished 21 pages here about Michelle's disappearance...whew!

There is no doubt that LE has much more data relating to this case than we do. Some posters have asked valid questions about key information that remains unreleased. I think the family is probably better informed than we are, and my heart goes out to them.

Based on the information that we have, it seems that Michelle was going out to her car in the parking facility to get something that she needed, intending to return in short order to whatever she was doing in the hospital. Sometime after that, her car was driven out of the facility and ultimately parked close to the hospital. We don't know who drove the car, but it seems unlikely that she intended to leave the parking facility based on what her friends said who last saw her. Was someone lying in wait for her in the parking structure who forced her to leave, or did she need something at a store in the immediate area that she only needed a few minutes to obtain before returning to the hospital--and was possibly abducted in the surrounding area after leaving the parking facility?

If she was abducted from the parking garage, did the person lying in wait have a vehicle there? That would be a lot less obvious than a person loitering in the parking garage waiting for her (who would be much more likely to be observed by security, cameras, or others in the garage). And, if the perp did have a car, could the security cameras identify that somehow?

Security at Kaiser facilities is on par with most major businesses that have public access, and the time of her disappearance would not have been at a time when the parking facility was pitch dark. To me, that makes it rather unlikely that she was killed there, but she may have been forced to leave from there.

I also believe that it is highly unlikely that Kaiser housekeeping staff would be sent to surreptiously "clean up blood" from a suspected crime scene in one of their parking garages. LE would have to have been involved in forensic evaluation of that area, and there is no way that could be covered up. (The hospital is accessible 24 hours a day...wouldn't the parking structure be as well?) The facility would have been closed or movement severely restricted during an investigation of that nature, and because of that a lot more people would know about this at the hospital despite any attempts to conceal it. (Also, I'm not sure that the scope of the housekeeping staff's duties includes the parking garage. They are unionized employees, and I'm guessing their union rep would be defending them if a supervisor told them to clean up an area that is out of the scope of their regular job.)

My guess is that there is at least some key information on the security tapes in the parking structure to create a timeline or the presence of others related to her disappearance, and that is being scrutinized closely in combination with a lot of other information in order to identify who is responsible for her disappearance. I'm guessing also that there isn't enough information captured by the security cameras to clearly identify what exactly went on in the parking facility, or clearly identify any others involved with certitude--yet.

Do you think another vehicle was involved in this crime? I'm not sure if Michelle's car was the only one used in her disappearance or not. Was her car immediately driven to the perps car in the area, which was then used as part of the crime, or was her car returned to the general area after she was killed and disposed of using her vehicle alone?

This is a tragic situation...very, very sad.

 

[JBean]

Great find! But I'm wondering if those cameras only snap photos for red light runners. LE should definitely check it out though.

If you run a red light, those cameras can take a photo of your face and show it to you in the mail.

I went through the street view and did not see any Photo Enforced signs as one would typically see at a redlight camera intersection. I also did not see the white box flash cameras like we have down here in SoCal. But maybe someone else can take another look. These do not appear to be related to red lights.

here is a list of camera enforced sign locations for perusal as well.

http://www.ci.hayward.ca.us/departments/police/RLCE/pdf/location_photo_enforcement_signs.pdf

 

[girlinblue]

I, too, read all 21 pages this morning. I feel your "whew!"

I also believe that it is highly unlikely that Kaiser housekeeping staff would be sent to surreptiously "clean up blood" from a suspected crime scene in one of their parking garages. LE would have to have been involved in forensic evaluation of that area, and there is no way that could be covered up. (The hospital is accessible 24 hours a day...wouldn't the parking structure be as well?) The facility would have been closed or movement severely restricted during an investigation of that nature, and because of that a lot more people would know about this at the hospital despite any attempts to conceal it. (Also, I'm not sure that the scope of the housekeeping staff's duties includes the parking garage. They are unionized employees, and I'm guessing their union rep would be defending them if a supervisor told them to clean up an area that is out of the scope of their regular job.)

I think maybe housekeeping is a general term here. I worked in a hospital for a bit last year, and the janitorial engineers, etc, were blanket-termed. Just an idea. I do think it's strange that they'd be sent to clean up an immense amount of blood, BUT, only because of the amount of blood being speculated here. If the ramp is owned by the hospital it makes sense they have people cleaning it. And since this wasn't the employee parking lot (I may be recalling wrong here, but that's why she was parked there, right? She had to use the general public lot because they employee lot was off limits?) I think it's safe to say hospital patients were in and out of it, and--especially ER patients--it's likely there's blood, vomit, etc, going on more often than not. It's really not entirely unusual, if this is the case with the ramp. Sparing details...there were a few times I had to wash my car after leaving, or my favorite shoes were ruined.*

So unless we're talking gallons and gallons of blood here, I don't think it's all that unusual it would go unreported. If it were cleaned up the next day, maybe it hadn't been put together yet. Clearly this company is suspicious, but that doesn't mean that they knew what it meant as it was happening.

*ETA: I should note this is a county hospital and not a private corp, and the housekeeping staff would be sent out to bucket down the vomit on the ramp and helipads a lot, but I'm unsure either way about the extent of clean up in the ramps. I know there were workers who'd come in and clean up garbage, random debris, etc. I'd see them on my way in. But I always left in the middle of the night (creepy, oh yes) in that void between active shifts. I never actually saw it being hosed down, but I do know stuff would be gone by next afternoon.

 

[jedi]

Those are not red light cameras. We don't have any in that part of town. When I lived in a nicer city, every signal light had cameras. There were no red light cameras though. But it was also a smaller city. I'm sure Hayward does not have such a budget.

There are also cameras on the bridge. Tons of them. I wonder if they were reviewed to see if anyone was following her.

94545 - Google Maps

 

[DLynn]

"I also believe that it is highly unlikely that Kaiser housekeeping staff would be sent to surreptiously "clean up blood" from a suspected crime scene in one of their parking garages. LE would have to have been involved in forensic evaluation of that area, and there is no way that could be covered up. (The hospital is accessible 24 hours a day...wouldn't the parking structure be as well?) The facility would have been closed or movement severely restricted during an investigation of that nature, and because of that a lot more people would know about this at the hospital despite any attempts to conceal it. (Also, I'm not sure that the scope of the housekeeping staff's duties includes the parking garage. They are unionized employees, and I'm guessing their union rep would be defending them if a supervisor told them to clean up an area that is out of the scope of their regular job.)"

I work at Kaiser and this is what I know:

A Kaiser employee told me that HK was called to clean up something in the garage around the time of Michelles disapperance. When that was I do not know.

Is it possible that someone called in that there was blood in the garage and it was cleaned up before it was known that Michelle had gone missing?

(say she was injured in the garage, then taken, someone comes on the scene, tells Kaiser there is blood in that garage and they go over there to clean it, not knowing it's a crime scene yet?) Just speculating.

Then I was later told by a friend in HK that "EFT"? had been called to the garage to clean something up around the time of Michelles disappearance (I am not totally sure I heard those initials correctly and did not want to ask again we were standing in the middle of the hall at Kaiser, I don't want her to get in trouble for talking about it)

So it sounds like she was attacked/shot/stabbed? in the garage (going by what the Hayward PD later said that it was a homicide) But if the evidence was cleaned before they knew it was a crime scene then I would ask "How do they know she was killed there?" and not just injured?

And I'm off with a dislocated shoulder so I can't ask any more questions from my friends up there, if I could I know I would get some interesting feedback that would surely help us determine what may have happened in that garage.

Kaiser is totally silent about all of it. And basically employees are nervous to even talk about it.

 

[JBean]

Those are not red light cameras. We don't have any in that part of town. When I lived in a nicer city, every signal light had cameras. There were no red light cameras though. But it was also a smaller city. I'm sure Hayward does not have such a budget.

There are also cameras on the bridge. Tons of them. I wonder if they were reviewed to see if anyone was following her.

94545 - Google Maps

I know in some areas those types of street light cameras are not really taking videos as we think of it. In some cases they are just monitoring traffic flow and sharing information about traffic patterns.
I do not know if that is the case in Hayward, but just throwing it out there that they may not be surveillance type cameras that can be reviewed for imagery necessarily or what information is actually stored, KWIM?

 

[lynxofsd]

I work at Kaiser and this is what I know:

A Kaiser employee told me that HK was called to clean up something in the garage around the time of Michelle's disappearance. When that was I do not know.

Is it possible that someone called in that there was blood in the garage and it was cleaned up before it was known that Michelle had gone missing...I was later told by a friend in HK that "EFT" had been called to the garage to clean something up around the time of Michelle's disappearance.

(...say she was injured in the garage, then taken, someone comes on the scene, tells Kaiser there is blood in that garage and they go over there to clean it, not knowing it's a crime scene yet?)

So it sounds like she was attacked/shot/stabbed in the garage (going by what the Hayward PD later said that it was a homicide). But if the evidence was cleaned before they knew it was a crime scene then I would ask "How do they know she was killed there?" and not just injured?

Kaiser is totally silent about all of it. And basically employees are nervous to even talk about it.

Well, we're left with a lot of holes in this puzzle that are hard to fill in.

What we do know from available information is that Michelle's car was in a Kaiser parking structure on Friday May 27, and subsequently it was found outside of that structure in the immediate neighborhood. The first press reports I am aware of documenting her disappearance were published on Sunday May 29, and LE had found her car by then.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/05/29/search-student-nurse-seen-hospital-california/#ixzz1NlJzDqQU

I'm guessing her friends/boyfriend/Reno travel companion reported her disappearance no later than Saturday May 28, and maybe before 2359 on the Friday she was unaccounted for. Monday the 30th was a national holiday.

I find the media reports a little confusing.

The first link below says there was "blood evidence in the parking garage", and adds that "there is surveillance footage showing her leaving Kaiser in her white Honda".

The second link says "there was blood evidence found at the scene where they believed there was a confrontation at Kaiser Hospital", but then goes on to mention the Honda SUV in the next paragraph.

The third reference (published 12 days ago) is more comprehensive and suggests that there was blood in the parking garage and the car, but LE is a bit vague on the details.

http://blogs.sfweekly.com/thesnitch/2011/06/michelle_le_update_blood.php

http://www.ktvu.com/news/28192451/detail.html

http://www.mercurynews.com/ci_18217637?source=most_viewed&nclick_check=1

The last report also suggests that LE did go to the garage and collected forensic evidence of some sort. Hopefully that was done before the "evidence" was cleaned up by whoever was charged to do so at Kaiser.

I'm not surprised at Kaiser's reticence to put up flyers at their facility about Michelle, although I hope a general call has gone out to the employees at the facility to be watchful in the parking structure. (I don't know if Kaiser-Hayward has security escorts available for the parking structure to accompany anyone who wants them, but they should.)

Kaiser's main responsibility is to cooperate with LE however they are being asked to, especially relating to the recordings from the security cameras in the parking facility. Hopefully there is something there that can identify who is responsible for her death. If there is blood evidence in the garage, you can bet that area of coverage by security cameras has already been well scrutinized.

That parking facility must be used by a lot of people, though. It seems an assault happening there that would draw blood would attract some attention, which makes me wonder if there is an alternative explanation.

I suppose the unfortunate truth is that an assault of that nature could still escape notice by others.

 

[infamous]

Well, we're left with a lot of holes in this puzzle that are hard to fill in.

What we do know from available information is that Michelle's car was in a Kaiser parking structure on Friday May 27, and subsequently it was found outside of that structure in the immediate neighborhood. The first press reports I am aware of documenting her disappearance were published on Sunday May 29, and LE had found her car by then.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/05/29/search-student-nurse-seen-hospital-california/#ixzz1NlJzDqQU

I'm guessing her friends/boyfriend/Reno travel companion reported her disappearance no later than Saturday May 28, and maybe before 2359 on the Friday she was unaccounted for. Monday the 30th was a national holiday.

I find the media reports a little confusing.

The first link below says there was "blood evidence in the parking garage", and adds that "there is surveillance footage showing her leaving Kaiser in her white Honda".

The second link says "there was blood evidence found at the scene where they believed there was a confrontation at Kaiser Hospital", but then goes on to mention the Honda SUV in the next paragraph.

The third reference (published 12 days ago) is more comprehensive and suggests that there was blood in the parking garage and the car, but LE is a bit vague on the details.

http://blogs.sfweekly.com/thesnitch/2011/06/michelle_le_update_blood.php

http://www.ktvu.com/news/28192451/detail.html

http://www.mercurynews.com/ci_18217637?source=most_viewed&nclick_check=1

The last report also suggests that LE did go to the garage and collected forensic evidence of some sort. Hopefully that was done before the "evidence" was cleaned up by whoever was charged to do so at Kaiser.

I'm not surprised at Kaiser's reticence to put up flyers at their facility about Michelle, although I hope a general call has gone out to the employees at the facility to be watchful in the parking structure. (I don't know if Kaiser-Hayward has security escorts available for the parking structure to accompany anyone who wants them, but they should.)

Kaiser's main responsibility is to cooperate with LE however they are being asked to, especially relating to the recordings from the security cameras in the parking facility. Hopefully there is something there that can identify who is responsible for her death. If there is blood evidence in the garage, you can bet that area of coverage by security cameras has already been well scrutinized.

That parking facility must be used by a lot of people, though. It seems an assault happening there that would draw blood would attract some attention, which makes me wonder if there is an alternative explanation.

I suppose the unfortunate truth is that an assault of that nature could still escape notice by others.

As I drove around the parking garage, I noticed a security guard watching the exit. So maybe they stepped up their security?

 

[cluciano63]

Even if the blood had been cleaned up, I would imagine forensics could still "see" it and determine the quantity and probably even get DNA. What confuses me is the speed with which they called her disapperance a homicide...a vast amount of blood would be one reason, but that should have also been highly unusual for the people who cleaned it up to have seen and you would think that in itself would have become "news".

 

[Columbo]

Even if the blood had been cleaned up, I would imagine forensics could still "see" it and determine the quantity and probably even get DNA. What confuses me is the speed with which they called her disapperance a homicide...a vast amount of blood would be one reason, but that should have also been highly unusual for the people who cleaned it up to have seen and you would think that in itself would have become "news".

Do you suppose there might have been blood spatter that the clean-up team missed and LE spotted? Spatter would probably indicate a gunshot wound.

Also, I wonder if the blood on the floor would leave stains or if their cleaning potions would remove that, too?

 

[cluciano63]

Do you suppose there might have been blood spatter that the clean-up team missed and LE spotted? Spatter would probably indicate a gunshot wound.

Also, I wonder if the blood on the floor would leave stains or if their cleaning potions would remove that, too?

I am guessing if Luminol was used, LE could see how large a stain had been cleaned up even if they did a good job. And the pattern might determine if it was a gun shot, as you say. But even a gun shot is not always fatal, so I am still wondering what made them leap to "homicide" just like that. They say there was other evidence as well.

 

[Columbo]

I am guessing if Luminol was used, LE could see how large a stain had been cleaned up even if they did a good job. And the pattern might determine if it was a gun shot, as you say. But even a gun shot is not always fatal, so I am still wondering what made them leap to "homicide" just like that. They say there was other evidence as well.

The other evidence must have been really definitive for them to leap to homicide. I can't imagine what it could be. It must be something that would jeopardize the investigation, but what??

 

[slowpoke]

Thank you, lynxofsd, for your pieces of the puzzle post.

It's hard to make sense of it all when we know so little facts, isn't it.

What I'm wondering about, among many things in this case:

--We know that LE say they believe ML was killed, and it happened IN the parking garage.

--We know that her car was found not where she had it parked in the garage, but a couple of blocks away on Ponderosa Ct.

So:

If police are right that she was killed in the garage, then I think it goes to follow that it wasn't her driving the car out of the garage, right?

That could likely means her car was driven by the killer or accomplice.

But, something about that doesn't make sense.

If the killer drove her car out of the parking garage with I'm guessing ML's body in the car, the question is why do that? Wouldn't it be more usual to just do the deed, leave your victim, and try to get away from the scene quickly without being seen?

 

[jedi]

I know in some areas those types of street light cameras are not really taking videos as we think of it. In some cases they are just monitoring traffic flow and sharing information about traffic patterns.
I do not know if that is the case in Hayward, but just throwing it out there that they may not be surveillance type cameras that can be reviewed for imagery necessarily or what information is actually stored, KWIM?

Those are definitely cameras. I drove by earlier and took a closer look. I didn't have time to pass by the employee lot of Kaiser. But the Kaiser cameras are the ones that would have caught the act.

Here is the difference between a camera and sensor.

Camera:

Sensor:

 

[lynxofsd]

What I'm wondering about, among many things in this case:

--We know that LE say they believe ML was killed, and it happened IN the parking garage.

--We know that her car was found not where she had it parked in the garage, but a couple of blocks away on Ponderosa Ct.

So:

If police are right that she was killed in the garage, then I think it goes to follow that it wasn't her driving the car out of the garage, right?

That could likely means her car was driven by the killer or accomplice.

But, something about that doesn't make sense.

If the killer drove her car out of the parking garage with I'm guessing ML's body in the car, the question is why do that? Wouldn't it be more usual to just do the deed, leave your victim, and try to get away from the scene quickly without being seen?

All good points, slowpoke.

I think a lot of information is being withheld by LE.

===================================

Let's just accept that she was assaulted in the garage. If this is premeditated (as LE states it is), the assailant was waiting for her and knew her habits. That would seem to narrow the people of interest to a select few unless "outside help" was solicited. Otherwise, the perps chances of being caught are very high.

Her car left the garage, but who was driving it? Was it in such a secluded location that no one saw a assault take place, and the cameras didn't ID somebody of interest? Most women park their cars in more visible areas to avoid being assaulted.

If there is "blood evidence" in the garage, my guess is it is pretty limited, because anything more would result in a lot of hubbub and a mortally wounded person--who didn't drive out of the garage, by the way.

The car was described as well-cared for and locked. That doesn't sound like a grisly crime scene to me.

I'm not convinced she was severely wounded or killed in the garage. Perhaps she was threatened and coerced to leave, and I don't know how much "blood evidence" would be generated by that.

And, we're back to motive again. If nothing of value was robbed, that limits the suspect list even further if LE truly believes this "wasn't a stranger".

Where was the jilted girlfriend? Did she have a cell phone? I think LE would have detained her unless she had a rock-solid alibi.

(BTW, way to out yourself by calling a TV station and telling them you hate Michelle...but you know nothing about her disappearance. Don't you wonder about the mental status of someone that would do that who is *innocent* of the crime? Why not just lay low?

That reminds me of Melissa Huckaby calling LE about her suspicions relating to Sandra Cantu's killing...the thinking along the lines of "if I talk to LE proactively, they won't think it's me."

Guilty or innocent, that woman's outward expression of hate is downright strange.)

 

[borndem]

Great find! But I'm wondering if those cameras only snap photos for red light runners. LE should definitely check it out though.

If you run a red light, those cameras can take a photo of your face and show it to you in the mail.

OT from the East Coast - They do the same thing in Cary, NC. There's no way you can wiggle out of it, and they do not forgive. You just gotta pay the fine and if you're prone to do it again, at least smile for the camera!

But yes, LE might get lucky -- I'm sure those things are flashing all day.

 

[girlinblue]

Here, we don't have red light cameras, or traffic cameras. We do have crime cameras though, at major intersections. Some of you guys have said this city has a big gang presence. Just a thought. That said, our camera room is almost never manned. (Which is a lovely way of spending tax dollars.) I've heard calls go through the scanner at an assault or homicide, and the responding officers have to ask dispatch to call HQ and find out if there's anyone in the camera room, and there almost always isn't. I imagine they have to at least be recording at all times.