Still Missing CA - Orson & Orrin West (3&4), California City, 21 Dec 2020 #4

[musemoon]

Thanks for the great information.
Do you happen to know whether a case worker or whoever it is that allocated the children will be questioned if something serious occurs, like the children disappearing?
Are any disciplinary measures taken if omissions are discovered that should have been red flags from the outset but were disregarded due to need or some other reason?

I don't know the specifics in this case. I'm not even totally sure the other two were foster children, but if they were, ideally social workers are supposed to see all of the children because the other children interact with their clients (foster kids in their care) especially if they have anything that sends up red flags for them. So, when I'm on zoom with a caseworker they ask to see both of my children (we haven't been placed with a third yet). They are supposed to see the kids on their caseload. I doubt they would ask to see O and O, but that being said, they are so young, that if they didn't see them over time, (without a valid excuse) there would be some red flags for sure. Yes, whoever dropped the ball will be in trouble and if this is a case of DCFS neglect the system will be overhauled again. Maybe not statewide, but for Kern County, definitely.

 

[Peppery]

This is an important point. A dog would have to be able to be given an uncontaminated item belonging to the child so as to achieve a clean scent from which to begin. An item with several scents from numerous persons would not suffice.

So, there were items in that house that were scent specific to these boys, and the boys never really needed to be in that house, OR, the boys were in that house and the scent specific items were provided to the SAR team/handler and/or LE.

A human scent on an item can last a long time. The scent of those boys outside that home would likely, under normal circumstances, last one to two weeks or more.

Edited to add: The fact LE reports no scent was found outside that home means, to me, that the boys were not on that porch playing with chalk. And the boys did not wander out an open gate.

Now, theoretically, the bodies of the boys could have been sealed in some airtight container(s) and removed by parking a car in the garage, putting the containers in the car, and driving out from there.

Or the items given to the dogs belonged to one of the other boys and the AP's knew their scents would be found in the house. We don't know if the items actually belonged to O&O.

 

[cds0902]

Why would that be a red flag?!

Jmo but I suspect it’s because they are making a living off theses kids, instead of being employed outside the home. I could be wrong!

 

[heavenlee7]

When I watched the adopted parents I noticed something very odd. Why was JW in a constant sway motion? Those are not even my boys although I feel as if I was more upset than the adopted parents. Someone needs to fess up!

 

[AgeofAquaruis]

https://missingkidsla.org/
Edit: Notice you can sort by column headings: sort by age and you will see how many runaway babies in the system. 5 months? 7 month? Detained babies? Also we have children 121 years old. What a joke!
Los Angeles County's Missing Foster Children ... LA Community Policing

Can we find a site like this for Kern county?
Child Protective Services Statistical Reports | Kern County, CA - Department of Human Services

Children in Foster Care - Kidsdata.org

Where is the DOJ on this?

 

[Teche]

Why would that be a red flag?!

Many families I worked with provided wonderful and loving environments for their foster kids. Unfortunately, I worked with some families where children were placed with a couple and both individuals were physically able to work outside the home. They received funds to meet the financial and medical needs of the children in their care. Some families lived off of these funds.

I grew up in a home where my parents took in and raised quite a few kids that were not in foster care.

 

[MsBetsy]

Why would that be a red flag?!

No, that's when you explain that you have 4 and are close to adopting two more...

I think Orson and Orrin were the last two siblings to be adopted, according to the statement made by the extended family. Imo

 

[Seattle1]

<modsnip: Quoted post was removed>

In the interview --more than a month after the children missing, Chief Walker responded to the question about the number of children and their ages according to how 'he understood it' and 'how he'd been briefed.' (See quote below)....

<modsnip>

ETA: YT transcript

15:41
the way i understand it and the way i've
15:43
been briefed on it there was
15:44
two two biological children
15:47
two foster children and uh oran [Orrin and] norsen [Orson]
15:51
were actually adopted so
15:54
and then ranging in ages from 10 all the
15:56
way down to three

 

[fcavanaugh]

<modsnip: Quoted post was removed>

In the interview --more than a month after the children missing, Chief Walker responded to the question about the number of children and their ages according to how 'he understood it' and 'how he'd been briefed.' (See quote below)....

<modsnip>

Thanks @Seattle1. I’ve been impressed with Chief Walker’s handling of the case so far, and the better part of me believed he most likely didn’t misspeak, and good point- his staff are constantly briefing/updating him with updated information, so yeah I’m putting my faith in the Chief’s statement being accurate.

IMHO

 

[Bbybluz]

I am a foster/adoptive parent currently being recertified to adopt through foster care in Los Angeles county. Because I love kids and not for the money, trust me!!!! I have two foster/adoptive children and I am still friends with their DCFS workers who have told me a lot about their caseloads (both no longer work with DCFS). I have also taught classes to prospective foster/adoptive parents to help educate them about the needs of foster adopted children. Highly traumatized kids have severe behaviors at times, they need care, patience, and therapy, but it shouldn't discourage parents from wanting to give these kids homes.

I will say I know nothing about the particulars in this case, I only know the way California DCFS works. I have great empathy for the birth mother as I'm sure she loved her sons and is in deep pain losing them. I don't think birth parents understand how serious they have to be with DCFS. I have heard horror stories on both sides.

Recently, I think it was in 2019 DCFS increased the number of children that could be in one bedroom from two to four children of the same sex. They each have to have a closet, dresser, or wardrobe. It depends on the caseworker and the need in that county, but you can have up to six children in one three-bedroom home, however, six is the maximum amount of children you can have under a certain age. I think the West's were at their limit as far as DCFS is concerned.

I don't know what happened to the boys, obviously, they didn't just walk out of their home. It's hard for me to think that if they had so much interaction with DCFS that they could get away with ongoing abuse but maybe. With everyone in the family fostering it's just really hard for me to think that ongoing abuse could happen, but maybe it did. I have no idea what happened, I just know what the current DCFS procedures are (they were modified because of the Gabriel Fernandez case) because I am currently working with DCFS.

They can't homeschool the foster kids, but we are all on lockdown in CA so everyone is going to school remotely. I would assume the kids were on Zoom with their teachers, but I don't know.

Here is the home inspection checklist
Your California Foster Care Home Inspection Checklist – Alternative Family Services

Thank you for responding & your insight!! With so many of us from different Counties, States & even Countries looking at this case the DCFS rules are so different.

 

[10ofRods]

California State Adoption Assistance Program

Look what I found...the rate for both children, who met the criteria, minorities, siblings...$1,034 each child a month! That is quite an incentive to adopt.

Yes...it is. And it messes with people. Just like student financial aid messes with people (we are seeing a huge upswing in fraud in both areas in California, and of course, nationwide, people plundered the payroll protection package and money got flung everywhere).

Where I live, CPS is not nearly up to the task of monitoring all that's going on (and it's the same when it comes to Public Health matters and COVID - not prepared, at all, for what's going on statewide - and indeed, all along the West Coast).

 

[BoyThatsWeird]

Has it been reported, or did Chief Walker explicitly state, that LE did not get any hits from the cadaver dogs in the backyard? I was reading through another completely unrelated missing person case that stated, "Investigators sifted dirt removed from a barn near the property after cadaver dogs finished their work. The searchers would not discuss whether anything significant was found."

Got me thinking about this case. I remember reading that LE was sifting dirt in backyard and I couldn't figure out why they'd be doing that. Does anyone remember if the digging/sifting was done on the same day that the cadaver dogs were brought in?

 

[MsBetsy]

Has it been reported, or did Chief Walker explicitly state, that LE did not get any hits from the cadaver dogs in the backyard? I was reading through another completely unrelated missing person case that stated, "Investigators sifted dirt removed from a barn near the property after cadaver dogs finished their work. The searchers would not discuss whether anything significant was found."

Got me thinking about this case. I remember reading that LE was sifting dirt in backyard and I couldn't figure out why they'd be doing that. Does anyone remember if the digging/sifting was done on the same day that the cadaver dogs were brought in?

He said that cadaver dogs made no hits at all, either inside or outside the house, from what I remember. He said the boy's scent never left the house, in regard to the search dogs picking up their scent. Imo

 

[DeDee]

I am a foster/adoptive parent currently being recertified to adopt through foster care in Los Angeles county. Because I love kids and not for the money, trust me!!!! I have two foster/adoptive children and I am still friends with their DCFS workers who have told me a lot about their caseloads (both no longer work with DCFS). I have also taught classes to prospective foster/adoptive parents to help educate them about the needs of foster adopted children. Highly traumatized kids have severe behaviors at times, they need care, patience, and therapy, but it shouldn't discourage parents from wanting to give these kids homes.

I will say I know nothing about the particulars in this case, I only know the way California DCFS works. I have great empathy for the birth mother as I'm sure she loved her sons and is in deep pain losing them. I don't think birth parents understand how serious they have to be with DCFS. I have heard horror stories on both sides.

Recently, I think it was in 2019 DCFS increased the number of children that could be in one bedroom from two to four children of the same sex. They each have to have a closet, dresser, or wardrobe. It depends on the caseworker and the need in that county, but you can have up to six children in one three-bedroom home, however, six is the maximum amount of children you can have under a certain age. I think the West's were at their limit as far as DCFS is concerned.

I don't know what happened to the boys, obviously, they didn't just walk out of their home. It's hard for me to think that if they had so much interaction with DCFS that they could get away with ongoing abuse but maybe. With everyone in the family fostering it's just really hard for me to think that ongoing abuse could happen, but maybe it did. I have no idea what happened, I just know what the current DCFS procedures are (they were modified because of the Gabriel Fernandez case) because I am currently working with DCFS.

They can't homeschool the foster kids, but we are all on lockdown in CA so everyone is going to school remotely. I would assume the kids were on Zoom with their teachers, but I don't know.

Here is the home inspection checklist
Your California Foster Care Home Inspection Checklist – Alternative Family Services

Thank you, @musemoon for caring for our precious treasures when they need it the most. :Gold Star Award:

<modsnip: Off topic>

 

[Sillybilly]

ADMIN NOTE:

Posts discussing a realtor or mortgage broker and the number of children have been removed, along with all responses.

To clarify ...

Tricia's podcast is its own social media, separate and apart from this forum. There are times when Tricia will be discussing things on her podcast that are not approved for discussion here on the board. That's what makes her podcast so very interesting.

IOW, if Tricia is addressing a social media rumor on her podcast, it is not allowed here because it is rumor. The same goes for other podcasts. They are interesting, intriguing, and can be downright Yowza, but not everything is allowed here for discussion.

Hopefully that is clear. Any questions, please ask them in private message to me.

 

[Rachelj1]

Where are those boys?!!! Something is not right with TW and JW. There is absolutely NO way his story is the truth, its impossible actually bc of the security footage. SO when is LE going to address that?? When are they are going to say the story isnt true?

MOO

 

[susiQ]

Where are those boys?!!! Something is not right with TW and JW. There is absolutely NO way his story is the truth, its impossible actually bc of the security footage. SO when is LE going to address that?? When are they are going to say the story isnt true?

MOO

I doubt very much LE will tell us they know the perps are lying. They may give us little hints that they think they are lying but that’s as good as it gets. They will not/should not tell us overtly that perps are lying. We won’t know anything for sure until there’s an arrest and the Arrest Affidavit is released. That’s when our jaws drop to the floor! Patience Grasshopper . MOO

 

[Rachelj1]

I doubt very much LE will tell us they know the perps are lying. They may give us little hints that they think they are lying but that’s as good as it gets. They will not/should not tell us overtly that perps are lying. We won’t know anything for sure until there’s an arrest and the Arrest Affidavit is released. That’s when our jaws drop to the floor! Patience Grasshopper . MOO

I know! IT is just so frustrating when it involves children! I can barely stand it !!

I will admit Chief Walker is probably letting more out than most would! I think the fact he stated that they were offered lie detectors is HUGE.

MOO

 

[Bbybluz]

Are Warrents public knowledge or sealed? If sealed, how long before available to the public?

I keep thinking back to Gannon’s case & memory wants to trick me into thinking we seen it all as it was taking place but I could have been wrong?

I have full confidence in Chief Jon Walker & the CCPD + addition Teams. Although I am so impatient like many others here when it comes to children cases, I would want it airtight if it was my child too. Kudos for keeping the case ongoing & close to your vest but shame on you for causing me more gray hair lol.

 

[Rachelj1]

Are Warrents public knowledge or sealed? If sealed, how long before available to the public?

I keep thinking back to Gannon’s case & memory wants to trick me into thinking we seen it all as it was taking place but I could have been wrong?

I have full confidence in Chief Jon Walker & the CCPD + addition Teams. Although I am so impatient like many others here when it comes to children cases, I would want it airtight if it was my child too. Kudos for keeping the case ongoing & close to your vest but shame on you for causing me more gray hair lol.

there has been cases before that I have seen, been in, on facebook where someone will have access to court records. I dont think just anyone can find them because the person that had access worked for the court system!