Still Missing CA - Orson & Orrin West (3&4), California City, 21 Dec 2020 #5

[Rachelj1]

Well, two children are missing and the rest are in the custody of the state so past tense might be appropriate. Imo

You are so right , that’s a good point !

 

[cvaldez1975]

This article also states that they have two "adopted" children. I don't think I've seen any yet that report them as having two foster children.

I'm wondering what the Wests Case Plan is. I'm thinking their case may be a little different than the typical CPS case. It may be depend on whether or not Orrin and Orson are found and what happened to them. Imo

there was a link sometime ago that said they were foster children. its way buried now. who knows which was misreporting.

 

[cvaldez1975]

I think it is . I did read where it’s protocol , but I don’t buy it . Especially their biological children ... I can’t see them being placed with the state. When there is so much other family ... it seems strange .
Moo

its because they are in protective custody since the family is being investigated.

 

[MsMarple]

WERE really good parents?

I'd be more surprised if she insisted they *are* good parents, given that two little ones - her grandkids - went missing on their watch. It also wouldn't surprise me to learn that she believes the kids are deceased. IMO it means she's not supporting the parents at this point. IIRC the extended family made it clear in their statement that they aren't supporting TW and JW. MOO YMMV.

 

[JudiK]

I dont really have anything to say. Just bumping this back to the first page. Why aren't these boys getting more attention? This is almost unbelievable that TWO missing siblings (non-parent abduction) are missing and its been weeks! This must be torture for the family.

 

[Rachelj1]

I dont really have anything to say. Just bumping this back to the first page. Why aren't these boys getting more attention? This is almost unbelievable that TWO missing siblings (non-parent abduction) are missing and its been weeks! This must be torture for the family.

It’s absolutely ridiculous that they have not made arrests yet . Someone needs to be held accountable for this and it needs to happen now....

Moo

 

[anniejanet]

I have to keep reminding myself this won't be solved in 60 minutes. Waiting is so frustrating. Still praying the boys are with a relative eating ice cream and living their best lives.

 

[MsBetsy]

I'd be more surprised if she insisted they *are* good parents, given that two little ones - her grandkids - went missing on their watch. It also wouldn't surprise me to learn that she believes the kids are deceased. IMO it means she's not supporting the parents at this point. IIRC the extended family made it clear in their statement that they aren't supporting TW and JW. MOO YMMV.

Good point. We also don't know how often the grandparents saw TW, JW, and the children. For all we know the parents distanced themselves from the rest of the family.

Since the extended family last saw the boys in Bakersfield it could be that they never visited the family in Cal City. It would be interesting to know if they had plans to get together for Christmas.

 

[MsBetsy]

It’s absolutely ridiculous that they have not made arrests yet . Someone needs to be held accountable for this and it needs to happen now....

Moo

I don't think they will arrest anyone until they have solid evidence that connects them to a crime. LE only gets one chance and if they don't have enough evidence they can only hold a suspect for a few days. Meanwhile the suspect can retain a lawyer and LE will lose the chance to interrogate them.

I think it's better to build a solid case so that justice will be served.

 

[Rachelj1]

I don't think they will arrest anyone until they have solid evidence that connects them to a crime. LE only gets one chance and if they don't have enough evidence they can only hold a suspect for a few days. Meanwhile the suspect can retain a lawyer and LE will lose the chance to interrogate them.

I think it's better to build a solid case so that justice will be served.

You’re right , this is why detectives jobs I think are so hard ... they have to be patient and I’m sure they want to act ASAP.
Moo

 

[NCHydrangea]

I have to keep reminding myself this won't be solved in 60 minutes. Waiting is so frustrating. Still praying the boys are with a relative eating ice cream and living their best lives.

I know!! We have to remember that this is a “no body” case, just like Suzanne Morphew.

LE only has one chance.

Cases like this need so much more evidence because it’s hard to get a “guilty” verdict based on circumstantial evidence, especially when there is no proof that the boys are deceased. If they do find the boys, it has to be proven that the COD is not “natural causes” or something like accidental drowning. I hate being so negative about the boys, but I’m getting a sinking feeling that we may be looking at a “neglect” charge, at most.

Total hypothetical speculation and MOO.

 

[MimosaMornings]

Good point. We also don't know how often the grandparents saw TW, JW, and the children. For all we know the parents distanced themselves from the rest of the family.

Since the extended family last saw the boys in Bakersfield it could be that they never visited the family in Cal City. It would be interesting to know if they had plans to get together for Christmas.

If the extended family wasn’t local, I would be surprised if there was plans to get together due to Covid?
JMO

 

[Rachelj1]

I know!! We have to remember that this is a “no body” case, just like Suzanne Morphew.

LE only has one chance.

Cases like this need so much more evidence because it’s hard to get a “guilty” verdict based on circumstantial evidence, especially when there is no proof that the boys are deceased. If they do find the boys, it has to be proven that the COD is not “natural causes” or something like accidental drowning. I hate being so negative about the boys, but I’m getting a sinking feeling that we may be looking at a “neglect” charge, at most.

Total hypothetical speculation and MOO.

I may blow a gasket really if it’s only a neglect charge !!! Can you imagine ? Ughh Suzanne Morphew is so heartbreaking too!!

 

[Snoop Sister]

Well, two children are missing and the rest are in the custody of the state so past tense might be appropriate. Imo

My thoughts exactly. They are not parenting any children at the present or at least not at that time. So the past tense is appropriate.

 

[Whiteorchids]

Well, two children are missing and the rest are in the custody of the state so past tense might be appropriate. Imo

Exactly what I meant.

 

[MsBetsy]

If the extended family wasn’t local, I would be surprised if there was plans to get together due to Covid?
JMO

Yeah, that would definitely explain why they hadn't seen the grandchildren in a long time, if that is the case. However, they could have asked for Facetime or to talk to the kids which may have been an issue if the boys were not there. Imo

 

[MsMarple]

Yeah, that would definitely explain why they hadn't seen the grandchildren in a long time, if that is the case. However, they could have asked for Facetime or to talk to the kids which may have been an issue if the boys were not there. Imo

Good point. IMO apps like FaceTime, Zoom, Skype, etc. are going to put the squeeze on more and more caregivers who attempt to hide their actions. At least I hope so. Grandparents are pretty good at using those apps nowadays- us old geezers have come a long way since the 1990’s.

 

[MoeInVA]

I know!! We have to remember that this is a “no body” case, just like Suzanne Morphew.

LE only has one chance.

Cases like this need so much more evidence because it’s hard to get a “guilty” verdict based on circumstantial evidence, especially when there is no proof that the boys are deceased. If they do find the boys, it has to be proven that the COD is not “natural causes” or something like accidental drowning. I hate being so negative about the boys, but I’m getting a sinking feeling that we may be looking at a “neglect” charge, at most.

Total hypothetical speculation and MOO.

California has used torture charges in a number of recent child abuse and starvation cases. Certainly more difficult without the boys’ bodies, but that charge brings another possibility for pursuing life in prison. The statements of the other children in the home could potentially help them build a strong case tied to physical evidence in the home.

The Turpins for example ended up pleading guilty to torture among others to receive life in prison. The father and stepmother of Roman Lopez were just charged with that as well. There are quite a few recent cases.
Why is homicide not on the table in death of Roman Lopez? | abc10.com

 

[Rachelj1]

California has used torture charges in a number of recent child abuse and starvation cases. Certainly more difficult without the boys’ bodies, but that charge brings another possibility for pursuing life in prison. The statements of the other children in the home could potentially help them build a strong case tied to physical evidence in the home.

The Turpins for example ended up pleading guilty to torture among others to receive life in prison. The father and stepmother of Roman Lopez were just charged with that as well. There are quite a few recent cases.
Why is homicide not on the table in death of Roman Lopez? | abc10.com

That case is so sad too, I can't believe they havent been charged with homicide. LE cant determine who actually murdered him without a reasonable doubt....charge them both.

MOO

 

[rosesfromangels]

It’s absolutely ridiculous that they have not made arrests yet . Someone needs to be held accountable for this and it needs to happen now....

Moo

I know we are all very eager to see the boys found, and those responsible held accountable. That being said, I do think making sure their is enough evidence assembled for a conviction is well worth the wait. It seems like forever to us, but forensic studies, evaluation of hours and hours of video takes *alot* of time. Then, the D.A. needs to review the case to determine if they can prosecute with a high level of confidence there will be a conviction. So, we wait.

Amateur opinion and speculation