Found Deceased CA - Rachel Nguyen, 20, & Joseph Orbeso, 21, Joshua Tree Nat'l Park, 27 July 2017 #2

[bears10]

I would think they will do a tox screen if there's enough tissue left from which they can do it.
Don't they usually do this with blood? I doubt there's any blood left. :thinking: :dunno:

Seems as though they can use blood, urine, hair, bile, and a couple more methods, if they are doing a tox screen. No clue if they are or not.

http://www.forensicsciencesimplified.org/tox/how.html

 

[evilrobert]

It’s not every day that people get lost in the desert. This is an extraordinary case and a tragedy. I have yet to hear a single friend or loved one speak up and say they had a turbulent relationship even though many here are implying it. Even her family has broken their silence and said they don’t blame Joseph or his family. That is powerful. They would be the first to cry foul if they thought their daughter was murdered.

I've seen people that knew both in other forums state that they loved each other and that Joseph was an incredibly kind guy, down to he was the guy in high school that would sit at the table with the kids no one else would sit with so they weren't alone.

They were a young couple in love, which has been affirmed from all sides.

She had head trauma that happened prior to death, and they were in a canyon with 30 ft high walls on both sides. In fact, the location was remote enough (contrary to this "2 miles" claim) that once the remains were located they had difficulty removing the bodies due to the area they were in. They weren't somewhere that they could just get up and walk out of, especially considering the trauma she had. It's also been said by people that knew them, that Joseph wouldn't have been able to just simply leave her there and walk away "for help" if he was even able to because if something happened to him and he died, or he took too long, then it meant she would die alone.

Pretty alarming that this gets twisted into being some horrible killing, without any of the facts out there.

 

[Elainera]

Seems as though they can use blood, urine, hair, bile, and a couple more methods, if they are doing a tox screen. No clue if they are or not.

http://www.forensicsciencesimplified.org/tox/how.html

Interesting link! Thank you!

I think there may be only hair, nails, and bones left, and for all these it says that it is difficult if not impossible to pin down a time frame.

Interpretation of these findings is often difficult when assisting in a death investigation, because the time that these toxins were deposited in the bones cannot be determined with reasonable certainty.

Hair specimens, usually taken from the back of the head, can be used to test for exposure to heavy metals and drugs over a period of weeks to months.

Both probably not useful in this case.

But maybe the heat preserved some inner organs that could still be tested, such as the stomach or liver?

 

[evilrobert]

Federal law allows open carry of firearms in national parks, and concealed carry for permit holders.

CA law prohibits open carry of firearms in national parks, but allows concealed carry for permit holders, which qualified Joseph to carry.

 

[Seajay]

Guess we are waiting for autopsy reports.

That will tell us if she did indeed have a head injury and how severe, and possibly whether or not there were any drugs taken. It will not doubt tell us sh died of gun shot injuries. It may show level of dehydration.

With him it will show if he had any serious injuries, the gun shot wounds, any drugs he may have taken. His level of dehydration as well.

Of course, all this is depending on the condition of the bodies when found.

What else?

 

[KaaBoom]

Guess we are waiting for autopsy reports.

That will tell us if she did indeed have a head injury and how severe, and possibly whether or not there were any drugs taken. It will not doubt tell us sh died of gun shot injuries. It may show level of dehydration.

With him it will show if he had any serious injuries, the gun shot wounds, any drugs he may have taken. His level of dehydration as well.

Of course, all this is depending on the condition of the bodies when found.

What else?

I think it is safe to say that the condition of the bodies would not be good. So I wouldn't expect too much from the autopsy reports.

 

[bears10]

Interesting link! Thank you!

I think there may be only hair, nails, and bones left, and for all these it says that it is difficult if not impossible to pin down a time frame.





Both probably not useful in this case.

But maybe the heat preserved some inner organs that could still be tested, such as the stomach or liver?

Yes I agree, those methods probably will not be very helpful in this case. Bladder could maybe be of help... but I would guess dehydration would probably result in not much fluid? Trying to phrase things as sensitively as possible, I don’t mean to be crass.

 

[thekarmabus]

Drugs from a toxicology test would prove nothing. Just that something was taken in the past . It does not prove it was taken the day of hiking. Highly unlikely after the time left in the hot desert that hair and nails would be the only source.
Sad and tragic accident. Poor choices in an unforgiving environment.
Makes on want to hike with a flare gun


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[yukoncornelius]

<<Still, in the days leading to Nguyen's 20th birthday, she had a crush on a guy and when she suggested that he join her for hiking to celebrate, he turned out to be busy. "He told her to go with Joseph instead, he would see her later," Le said, adding that Orbeso was not Nguyen's boyfriend.>>

Le is Rachel's aunt, Mong He Le.

Full LA Times article:
http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-joshua-tree-hikers-20171022-story.html

 

[Capebluff]

One thing that’s stuck out to me all along is the very quick reporting by the owner of the Airbnb!! I may be oblivious to the way these lodging establishments operate in this aspect, however I wouldn’t think it to be ‘protocol’ to report guests as missing persons as quickly as they did when they failed to check out.
This leads me to believe Joseph &/or Rachel may have struck up conversation with the owner & discussion of their plans had taken place; the keener was possibly worried for their safety during the trip, & maybe that’s what prompted the quick reporting?

Nonetheless, I’m impressed by what this owner did.

The owner of a bed-and-breakfast near the park reported the couple missing July 28 after they failed to check out of their room, according to authorities.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/10/21/us/california-joshua-tree-missing-couple-found/index.html

 

[Force Ten]

One thing that’s stuck out to me all along is the very quick reporting by the owner of the Airbnb!! I may be oblivious to the way these lodging establishments operate in this aspect, however I wouldn’t think it to be ‘protocol’ to report guests as missing persons as quickly as they did when they failed to check out.
This leads me to believe Joseph &/or Rachel may have struck up conversation with the owner & discussion of their plans had taken place; the keener was possibly worried for their safety during the trip, & maybe that’s what prompted the quick reporting?

Nonetheless, I’m impressed by what this owner did.



http://www.cnn.com/2017/10/21/us/california-joshua-tree-missing-couple-found/index.html

They did talk to the owner the day before they went about their plans and he or she advised them about bringing proper provisions. Given the circumstances - the heat and area - it was admirable that they did report it as quick as they did.


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[KaaBoom]

One thing that’s stuck out to me all along is the very quick reporting by the owner of the Airbnb!! I may be oblivious to the way these lodging establishments operate in this aspect, however I wouldn’t think it to be ‘protocol’ to report guests as missing persons as quickly as they did when they failed to check out.
This leads me to believe Joseph &/or Rachel may have struck up conversation with the owner & discussion of their plans had taken place; the keener was possibly worried for their safety during the trip, & maybe that’s what prompted the quick reporting?

Nonetheless, I’m impressed by what this owner did.



http://www.cnn.com/2017/10/21/us/california-joshua-tree-missing-couple-found/index.html

I don't think the Airbnb had a choice. They had been missing for more then 24 hours, and their possessions were still in the room. It was report it then, or never. They couldn't just leave their stuff sitting in the room. I'm sure they had other guests scheduled to stay in that room. Plus I'm sure the Airbnb hosts were concerned, about them. Since they knew they had gone hiking and never returned.

 

[iscaremyself]

I think it's just as likely he marched her out there at gunpoint as is the 'they got lost' mercy scenario.
And imo no one takes drugs in the morning then goes hiking in that heat.

 

[Ironside]

I think it's just as likely he marched her out there at gunpoint as is the 'they got lost' mercy scenario.
And imo no one takes drugs in the morning then goes hiking in that heat.

If he intended to kill her and himself why not do it in the Airb&b or the car? Why march into a horrid uncomfortable environment for hours on end?

I don't see their deaths as motivated by anything other than sheer desperation due to dehydration.

 

[2bees]

If he intended to kill her and himself why not do it in the Airb&b or the car? Why march into a horrid uncomfortable environment for hours on end?

I don't see their deaths as motivated by anything other than sheer desperation due to dehydration.

I completely agree with you!
Also, why care for her wounds? Seems ridiculous to bandage someone up and cover them with your clothes if you want them dead to begin with lol!

 

[Ironside]

I don't think the Airbnb had a choice. They had been missing for more then 24 hours, and their possessions were still in the room. It was report it then, or never. They couldn't just leave their stuff sitting in the room. I'm sure they had other guests scheduled to stay in that room. Plus I'm sure the Airbnb hosts were concerned, about them. Since they knew they had gone hiking and never returned.

It could be an Airbnb policy that you are obliged to report awol guests.

 

[KaaBoom]

It could be an Airbnb policy that you are obliged to report awol guests.

I don't know if they are obligated, but from what I can tell, Airbnb's policy for situations like that, is for the host to call the Airbnb's support number. Airbnb then tries to contact the guest. If they can't get in contact with the guest, then they authorize the host to move the guest's belongings to a secure location. In light of the facts, Airbnb might have also suggest calling the police. So yeah Airbnb was probably involved in the decision too.

 

[Roadette]

And imo no one takes drugs in the morning then goes hiking in that heat.

I have friends who did similarly stupid **** all the time at their ages. Getting high and going hiking? All the time. Doing mushrooms and kayaking? I have a group of friends that did it. Going to something called "full moon party" in a foreign country, drinking, and taking all sorts of drugs? Yeah I know someone who did that too.

I'm inclined to think that most of my friends who dabbled in drug use have done at least one thing where they could have ended up dead from poor decision-making.

 

[Elainera]

Another small detail clarified: they didn't pull their shorts down to cover their legs.

&#8220;Rachel possibly injured herself sliding down a cliff and Joseph went after her and took care of her,&#8221; he [Rachel&#8217;s uncle, Son Nguyen] said, adding that Rachel&#8217;s T-shirt was wrapped around her head like a bandage and Joseph removed his shirt to cover her legs and protect them from the sun and high heat.

http://people.com/crime/joshua-tree-murder-suicide-california/

bbm

 

[iscaremyself]

Another small detail clarified: they didn't pull their shorts down to cover their legs.



http://people.com/crime/joshua-tree-murder-suicide-california/

bbm

the sheriff's office reported about the shorts.

"Sheriff's department spokeswoman Cynthia Bachman said. The two bodies were found under a tree and it looked like they had been wearing shorts and had pulled them down some to protect their legs from the sun and heat, Bachman said."

The info you are referring to, said by the 'uncle' is not even quoted by the reporter so I suspect it is supposition.
http://www.desertsun.com/story/news...der-suicide-sheriffs-officials-say/784757001/