Cadaver Dogs Hits and Info

[TxLady2]

Wow, Cocoamom, you have been a wealth of information! Thanks so much!
So... it could have been just something that was near the dead body, caught the scent and it was set down in the yard. I assume the gas cans were plastic.. if so, I think that decomp odor would permeate the plastic, right?
I am so glad to know this stuff. I watched a show on Animal Planet last night about K-9's... these were just dogs who were trained to chase down a perpetrator... they were so good! Years ago, I watched a handler demonstrate drug sniffing dogs.. I was so impressed, I have had an interest in it to this day.

 

[cuppy199]

I used to live in Chuluota and was engaged for 5 years to a guy who trained dogs for police departments. I helped him train attack dogs, cadaver dogs, drug dogs, tracking dogs - you get the picture. These dogs can hit on the scent of decomposition that is very old. Even microscopic cells that are decomposing long after the fact give off those gasses that they smell.

A dog's nose can smell multiple things at once. You or I walk into a doughnut shop, we smell the doughnuts, THEN the coffee, THEN the lady's perfume, etc. A dog smells the doughnuts, coffee, and perfume all at once. They are trained to recognize one particular smell (decomp for cadaver dogs and scent off of clothing or personal items for tracking dog). They "indicate" by barking, sitting, laying down, or even pawing and looking at the handler. Their reward is the toy or treat or whatever that they get for indicating properly. They need to be worked on a regular basis and "practiced" with so that scent stays fresh in their minds.

Yes, it is very likely and highly probable that they hit on the spots in the backyard for a reason. Gas cans is and sounds like a very good reason the decomp smell would be there. Laying the body down (even in a garbage bag) would also be a reason. Dogs can smell the plastic bag AND the decomp at the same time. There is NOTHING that a dog cannot smell through except a solid metal item. This is why drug traffickers can't hide it in foil, hot sauce, or anything else. This is why dogs hit on drug money (particles of drugs on the money).

The reason they wouldn't have dug - the dogs would have gone practically berserk if the smell was that strong. If they only indicated it probably means that they only smelled a small amount. A buried body would have gotten an extremely strong indication and a hysterical to play dog!! Any more questions? Does that cover it glad I could help!

:clap: Very well said Except In order for the gas cans or any other article to be hit on they would have to had come inconact with the body flood or blood etc.. Not just by the smell. Just because the article was in the car with the smell wouldnt alert the dog. The arcticle would have to be soiled at one point

 

[Can't Sleep]

At the bond hearing, the dog handler for the OCSO stated that his dog hit on three different locations in the Anthony backyard. He said that another cadaver dog was brought in from another dept., and that dog handler was not told of the hits made by the first dog. The second dog hit on the same exact three locations.

I think two different dogs, independent of each other, hitting on the same three locations indicates that the body had to have been in the Anthony backyard at some point.

Do you have a link to a quote for this? This is how I remember it too, but then watching the Greta "walk about" with the Anthonys got me so confused. CA said that the hits in the back yard were all "inconsistent." I don't even know what an inconsistent hit would be (one dog hit but another didn't?) but I thought it was strange that the CSI team kept going back to the house and collecting things if the dogs didn't find anything.

I love dogs - all dogs - and especially those wonderful K-9 working dogs! Thanks for all the great info here!:beagle::cop:

 

[TruthSeeker]

OK, as far as the gas cans - yes. Anything that could have any decomposing cells on it that are (yuck) rotting. The decomposing cells give off that gas that the dogs are trained on. We actually got real pieces of cadaver - legally through Tallahassee of course - medical science donated cadavers - to work with. We would put them in a test tube (tiny tiny piece like pinky nail size that was just flat skin), cork it up and bury it - deep! The could find it every time - my job was moving it without anyone knowing where I put it. It was amazing to watch. Clothes with the "smell", gas cans, even people's feet that have walked through the actual stuff and tracked it. Wonder if they hit inside the house anywhere? Actually laundry detergent does wonders for killing this scent.

As far as false hits - if a handler is lazy and doesn't work the dog and make them live up to their potential every time they practice, the dog gets lazy too. Dogs are smart. "If I bark and sit, I get to play with my toy and get lots of pets". They all try it during training. They don't get disciplined in anyway, just ignored and no reward. Usually they figure out it won't work but if it worked even once for them in training, they might try it if they are hot, thirsty, lazy or just not into it. I seriously doubt this with the LE/PD. They pay these handlers to work these dogs routinely - done on the clock even. The dogs can sense the excitement and apprehension and know this is serious business. They usually work better in an actual search than in training! They love it - this is what they love to do and live to do! False hits do happen but a second dog verifying should shut up that argument quickly. LE uses a second dog on really important cases too so that the "false hit" defense has no oomph behind it...

Sorry so long - trying to get the whole info out there..

Thank you for your informative information!

I remember during the Scott Peterson case the tarp that was thought to be used to cover Laci in the boat was placed in a shed under a leaking [lawnmower, gas cans]? by scott I can not remember exactly what it was but it WAS leaking gas. The dog sort of hit on it but acted a bit confused. The handler said that the leaking gas plus the other fumes in the shed may have confused or overidden the scent.

I know the accuracy rate is way up there with these wonderful animals. Having said that, there are too many varibles for the courts to allow this type of testimony to carry an absolute accuracy evidence rate but people seem to believe it does (sort of like the lie dectector test). I know the training consistency and now the detergent may influence a false positive or lack of a hit. What other types of influence might affect a trained dogs response? Thanks so much!

 

[TruthSeeker]

Well, if it was a transfer scent the dogs hit on in several places in the back yard, I could see the possibility of Casey getting the decomp scent on her shoes and tracking that scent to the shed to get the gas cans on the 24th. She probably went thru the garage to the back yard or entered through the back gate to break in the shed. JMHP

 

[Crabcake23]

I think Casey planned Caylee's murder. That's the only way I can explain the searches for chloroform and the missing children websites.

And the fact that she was researching Zenaida Gonzales online. I'm pretty sure that was months before she even stalked her at the Sawgrass apts. She's been working on this murder since around March, IMO.

 

[Pink Panther]

OK, as far as the gas cans - yes. Anything that could have any decomposing cells on it that are (yuck) rotting. The decomposing cells give off that gas that the dogs are trained on. We actually got real pieces of cadaver - legally through Tallahassee of course - medical science donated cadavers - to work with. We would put them in a test tube (tiny tiny piece like pinky nail size that was just flat skin), cork it up and bury it - deep! The could find it every time - my job was moving it without anyone knowing where I put it. It was amazing to watch. Clothes with the "smell", gas cans, even people's feet that have walked through the actual stuff and tracked it. Wonder if they hit inside the house anywhere? Actually laundry detergent does wonders for killing this scent.

As far as false hits - if a handler is lazy and doesn't work the dog and make them live up to their potential every time they practice, the dog gets lazy too. Dogs are smart. "If I bark and sit, I get to play with my toy and get lots of pets". They all try it during training. They don't get disciplined in anyway, just ignored and no reward. Usually they figure out it won't work but if it worked even once for them in training, they might try it if they are hot, thirsty, lazy or just not into it. I seriously doubt this with the LE/PD. They pay these handlers to work these dogs routinely - done on the clock even. The dogs can sense the excitement and apprehension and know this is serious business. They usually work better in an actual search than in training! They love it - this is what they love to do and live to do! False hits do happen but a second dog verifying should shut up that argument quickly. LE uses a second dog on really important cases too so that the "false hit" defense has no oomph behind it...

Sorry so long - trying to get the whole info out there..

Cocaomom - What exactly is a "false hit"??? CA did an interview with Greta where she was taking her around the backyard and she was saying things like ...and they had a false/uncertain hit here and a false/uncertain hit there...

Also - Does anyone know if this is true or if it was just CA doing her thing???

 

[Pink Panther]

Well, if it was a transfer scent the dogs hit on in several places in the back yard, I could see the possibility of Casey getting the decomp scent on her shoes and tracking that scent to the shed to get the gas cans on the 24th. She probably went thru the garage to the back yard or entered through the back gate to break in the shed. JMHP

If you look at the pics of when they searched the back yard, in the area beside the playhouse there were red and yellow flag markers. The red ones looked almost like they were outlining the shape/outline of a body.

MOO

 

[txsvicki]

I still think that Caylee was buried in the corner beside the pool then the pool box was placed over the area at some point.

 

[Salem]

Cocaomom - What exactly is a "false hit"??? CA did an interview with Greta where she was taking her around the backyard and she was saying things like ...and they had a false/uncertain hit here and a false/uncertain hit there...

Also - Does anyone know if this is true or if it was just CA doing her thing???

Watch the officer at the bond hearing, testifying about the dogs. My opinion after watching is that CA "was doing her thing." She knows those dogs hit and she knows it well - but she doesn't want you to know it:crazy:

Salem

 

[Salem]

I still think that Caylee was buried in the corner beside the pool then the pool box was placed over the area at some point.

I think there is something to this. The whole story about the pool box on Greta just did not ring true. The dogs didn't hit on it, IIRC, but watching CA talk about it, there was something wrong. That's when she was saying the dogs were inconsistent also, which according to the dog handler would be a lie, the first dog was consistent and the second dog verified.

Salem

 

[TURBOTHINK]

I didn't even know that Gale had real cadaver dogs??????

I don't think they are trained. My dog is a search/rescue dog and it took over 1000 hours of training and numerous tests to get that certification. For him to get certified as a cadaver dog (which we are working on) we will be working for a while longer and then there is no guarantee he will be a good one. Some dogs are a natural to it and some are not even with training and you need to have 10K or so for the training after S/R. I have not seen anything which indicated hers were trained or certified.

Any dog will go and smell a dead body if it is close to the top of the ground, just like they will many times roll on a dead bird, but cadaver dogs alert and never touch the evidence in anyway.

 

[TURBOTHINK]

Cocaomom - What exactly is a "false hit"??? CA did an interview with Greta where she was taking her around the backyard and she was saying things like ...and they had a false/uncertain hit here and a false/uncertain hit there...

Also - Does anyone know if this is true or if it was just CA doing her thing???

None of it was true.

 

[TURBOTHINK]

If you look at the pics of when they searched the back yard, in the area beside the playhouse there were red and yellow flag markers. The red ones looked almost like they were outlining the shape/outline of a body.

MOO

You know, I thought the SAME thing.........but was not sure until you said that.

 

[mom2chloe]

If you look at the pics of when they searched the back yard, in the area beside the playhouse there were red and yellow flag markers. The red ones looked almost like they were outlining the shape/outline of a body.

MOO

Link please...OMG!

 

[TURBOTHINK]

OK, as far as the gas cans - yes. Anything that could have any decomposing cells on it that are (yuck) rotting. The decomposing cells give off that gas that the dogs are trained on. We actually got real pieces of cadaver - legally through Tallahassee of course - medical science donated cadavers - to work with. We would put them in a test tube (tiny tiny piece like pinky nail size that was just flat skin), cork it up and bury it - deep! The could find it every time - my job was moving it without anyone knowing where I put it. It was amazing to watch. Clothes with the "smell", gas cans, even people's feet that have walked through the actual stuff and tracked it. Wonder if they hit inside the house anywhere? Actually laundry detergent does wonders for killing this scent.

As far as false hits - if a handler is lazy and doesn't work the dog and make them live up to their potential every time they practice, the dog gets lazy too. Dogs are smart. "If I bark and sit, I get to play with my toy and get lots of pets". They all try it during training. They don't get disciplined in anyway, just ignored and no reward. Usually they figure out it won't work but if it worked even once for them in training, they might try it if they are hot, thirsty, lazy or just not into it. I seriously doubt this with the LE/PD. They pay these handlers to work these dogs routinely - done on the clock even. The dogs can sense the excitement and apprehension and know this is serious business. They usually work better in an actual search than in training! They love it - this is what they love to do and live to do! False hits do happen but a second dog verifying should shut up that argument quickly. LE uses a second dog on really important cases too so that the "false hit" defense has no oomph behind it...

Sorry so long - trying to get the whole info out there..

I was just getting ready to say this is what these dogs LIVE for. They are much better in real searches than in training. They first want to please their handler, and second to "earn" their reward. Good search/rescue & cadaver dogs will be very eager to make their "find", but they don't get excited or over zealous even with a good find. They do their jobs and then sit and wait for another command. It is almost like they "FOUND" this one, time to get on to the next one.

I know there must be "false hits", but I personally have never seen it happen and I watch these dogs often. Once the second dog is brought in and it hits on the same place, you can "bet the farm" there has been decomp there.

I am now training my dog (you can see him on my profile) for cadaver searches. He is doing well at this point, but it takes a lot of time daily and he is still a bit confused between the S/R and the decomp. He is a natural to the decomp smell, but he may not make it as a cadaver dog because he is so focused in S/R, but this is still early in his training. The good thing is he is well trained already, so if we can just add the decomp, we have it made.

 

[Pink Panther]

Link please...OMG!

mom2chloe - I think that there were pics on Greta and also in People magazine. I'm sorry, I don't have link to provide immediately but I will post one if I manage to find it! They were aerial pics of the search in the backyard.

 

[Pink Panther]

None of it was true.

Turbo - So there were no "false hits" and she just said there were on Greta?

 

[TURBOTHINK]

Turbo - So there were no "false hits" and she just said there were on Greta?

The testimony in court indicated the hits were all good and both dogs hit the same places.

If you look at that interview again, I think you will catch where CA is very nervous when questioned about the hits. She almost contradicts herself many times. That entire interview looked to me as if she was trying first to hide something, and second to discount what the police testified to in court.

 

[yosande]

Early on there was a video where someone interviewed a cadaver dog trainer. I think it might have been Greta. Anyway, the trainer did a demo and what she used was a piece of cloth that had been with a dead body. She hid it under a pillow on a couch and the dog "alerted" on the pillow. So I think you have a good question, I certainly think that could be a possibility that an item was in the back yard instead of Caylee herself.

So, for instance, CA could have taken Caylee's doll out to her playhouse, and cried, and then returned it to the back seat? OR CA could have picked up the doll, looked at it, loved on it, then went to the playhouse with the smell on her hands, clothes etc, laid on the ground, cried, then went back into the house to see if LA was getting info from KC on July15th?