Cadaver Dogs, Search Dogs, K9 Units

[TURBOTHINK]

In referring to the Alabama study, Morris states that "dogs are only as good as the training they have received and the only way you know the quality is to test." She cautions against directly applying such studies to dogs used for archaeological work. The dogs that can be used in archaeology, she says, are a new type of trained dog called Historical Human Remains Detection (HHRD) dogs, as Morris refers to them. These dogs are specifically trained to find "old" remains only. "The new generation of specifically trained HHRD dogs in general do not work on fresh blood or any fresh scents," says Morris, adding that puppies are instead "imprinted and given a solid foundation on old bones and teeth" and "later they get experience working in old cemeteries."

 

[JusticeorJustUs]

I must have gone to the wrong web site.........here is what I found.

Canine Case Closed? July 15, 2004
by Evan Walker

The conviction of a renowned handler raises questions about the use of dogs in archaeology.

Michigan native Sandra Anderson is set to be sentenced on August 24 in Federal Court, Southern Division of the Eastern District of Michigan, for planting evidence at a crime scene and making false statements to authorities. A respected scent-detection dog trainer and handler, Anderson pled guilty earlier this year. Since the charges were filed last fall, the work of Anderson and her dog Eagle has been questioned.

I find this appalling for a handler to do anything like that. I don't even understand the purpose.

Sandy Anderson was a nutcase who was only interested in the notoriety and whatever money she could obtain from being sent here, there and everywhere. Ideas of grandieur.

She was a pathological liar. Her mother even made the same claim.

That rotten cow did more to damage the credibility of dogs and handlers than any study could do. That woman has no conscience doing what she did to so many families.

 

[passionflower]

Years ago I owned a German Shepherd, only training was obedience, she was strictly a loving pet. She lived in the house, but while out playing with my children; she was forver digging up holes and finding bones of something in our wooded lot. I truely believe dogs sence of smell is a great gift!!!

 

[EgyptNug]

Yes, I realize that but there are still some homes built after those dates that have the washer and dryer in the garage. I know because I live here now.

I agree. My 1986 home had the w&d in the garage, as do many of my neighbors in our 2002 build townhomes (just depends on the layout).

I find that the advantage of the w&d in the garage is that use of the dryer doesn't heat up the house. A bonus up north, but costly when the a/c runs 70-80% of the year..

I like it in the garage anyway, it's quieter.

 

[natsound]

I'm troubled by this, from a WFTV story:

"It's unknown what the area looked like on August 11, the first day the meter reader called and reported seeing a gray bag, but a deputy sent to the scene didn't find anything. Sheriff's officials said the man called Crimeline on August 12. A detective checked records and determined the area already had been checked by a cadaver dog."

Could this have big ramifications on the reliability of those cadaver dogs?

 

[raeann]

I just posted this exact question on the meter reader thread. How can they be considered accurate when hitting on areas of the car and yard where NO BODY was found, then NOT hit where the body WAS found?

 

[TURBOTHINK]

I just posted this exact question on the meter reader thread. How can they be considered accurate when hitting on areas of the car and yard where NO BODY was found, then NOT hit where the body WAS found?

They "hit" were the body had been. They did not search the area she was found with cadaver dogs as it was underwater. Simple.

 

[natsound]

They "hit" were the body had been. They did not search the area she was found with cadaver dogs as it was underwater. Simple.

The above quote from WFTV says a detective checked records and determined the area already had been checked by a cadaver dog. It doesn't say they did not search the area she was found with cadaver dogs as it was underwater.

No need to be snarky! We're all entitled to our opinions and questions.

 

[TURBOTHINK]

Yes. I do not believe that her body was ever near the backyard.

Her body was in the yard at some time. Two dogs don't make mistakes on the SAME hits.

Cindy said they had inconclusive hits, but that is NOT what was said. She lied again and she also said they hit where George cut his hand. She should have read up on cadaver dogs before she put those lies out on national TV. A dog would NEVER hit on a live person's blood.

 

[sweetwater]

Her body was in the yard at some time. Two dogs don't make mistakes on the SAME hits.

Cindy said they had inconclusive hits, but that is NOT what was said. She lied again and she also said they hit where George cut his hand. She should have read up on cadaver dogs before she put those lies out on national TV. A dog would NEVER hit on a live person's blood.

Yes, she did lie about this.
The dogs hit in the backyard and on the car that Caylee's body was hauled around in. Clear evidence and testimony exists to support these facts.

 

[BeanE]

I don't know if this has been linked in already, but I just came across it while researching something else, and know it's of interest in this thread.

LE report on Cadaver dog w/car. Jason Forgey. dog Gerus.

pdf page 198

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/media/acrobat/2008-08/41844520.pdf

 

[BeanE]

Found something else pertinent to this thread while doing my other research. This is Yuri Melich's narrative about the cadaver dog and Pontiac from his investigative report.

PDF page 20

http://www.wesh.com/download/2008/1126/18155354.pdf

 

[notthatsmart]

Just curious if anyone knows anything about Cadaver dogs and trainers.

On this link, in this statement: page 198 of pdf


http://www.orlandosentinel.com/media/acrobat/2008-08/41844520.pdf

I gave k-9 “Gerus” his cadaver search command. I started my search of the white two door vehicle from the drivers side front finder. Working in a counter clock wise direction. K-9 “Gerus” gave a final trained alert at the rear passenger finder/trunk

Just curious, what is a trained alert? (bark?) And when the officer says final, does that mean there were trained alerts before the passenger rear finder/trunk?

The reason I think this is important is because of where the stain and the bag were located in the trunk. I understand the bag was not located in the trunk when the dog alerted. But I am not sure about that.

 

[BeanE]

Just curious if anyone knows anything about Cadaver dogs and trainers.

On this link, in this statement: page 198 of pdf


http://www.orlandosentinel.com/media/acrobat/2008-08/41844520.pdf

I gave k-9 “Gerus” his cadaver search command. I started my search of the white two door vehicle from the drivers side front finder. Working in a counter clock wise direction. K-9 “Gerus” gave a final trained alert at the rear passenger finder/trunk

Just curious, what is a trained alert? (bark?) And when the officer says final, does that mean there were trained alerts before the passenger rear finder/trunk?

The reason I think this is important is because of where the stain and the bag were located in the trunk. I understand the bag was not located in the trunk when the dog alerted. But I am not sure about that.

I simply googled "final trained alert" and this popped up as the first link.

Understanding Nose Time

http://www.searchdogsne.org/referen... the Cross Trained Wilderness-Cadaver Dog.pdf

It's from Search Dogs Northeast. They have a whole library of reference documents on their website.

http://www.searchdogsne.org/reference.html

 

[BeanE]

This paper is particularly interesting, as it discusses cadaver dog handlers and legal issues, and a case regarding a rogue cadaver dog handler who introduced false evidence etc.

No, Your Friend Cannot Do Magic
U.S. v Sandra Marie Anderson and Cadaver Dogs on Trial

http://www.searchdogsne.org/reference/Cadaver/No, Your Friend Cannot Do Magic.pdf

 

[JBean]

This paper is particularly interesting, as it discusses cadaver dog handlers and legal issues, and a case regarding a rogue cadaver dog handler who introduced false evidence etc.

No, Your Friend Cannot Do Magic
U.S. v Sandra Marie Anderson and Cadaver Dogs on Trial

http://www.searchdogsne.org/reference/Cadaver/No,%20Your%20Friend%20Cannot%20Do%20Magic.pdf

Oh I remember this lady. A lot of people did not want to beleive she was actually planting all these bones, so many people counted on her. She was a real let down. She was so highly regarded that a couple of LE that thought they saw her planting evidence were completely ignored and their stories poo pooed for years. No one would believe one officer in particular that saw her plant a bone. when they finally started catching on much much later, they set a trap for her and she fell right in it.
Shoot she would even plant male bones when they were looking for a missing female. She was the total attention seeker. I think Eagle even was on the search team at the World Trade Center.

 

[InspectorGadget]

This paper is particularly interesting, as it discusses cadaver dog handlers and legal issues, and a case regarding a rogue cadaver dog handler who introduced false evidence etc.

No, Your Friend Cannot Do Magic
U.S. v Sandra Marie Anderson and Cadaver Dogs on Trial

http://www.searchdogsne.org/reference/Cadaver/No, Your Friend Cannot Do Magic.pdf

Well, one thing Anderson knew was that an alert is not hard evidence. The dog actually needs to find some material evidence to be successful. Gerus was not successful. Had he been successful maybe he would have sniffed his way down to Suburban and we would have a more definite timeline.

 

[Theonly1]

To give you an idea of how good scent dogs can be...I once hid in the Lower Wekiva River woods for search and rescue training. I went in approximately a mile and hid deep in the woods--not along a trail. A search handler and dog came in (which I had never met before and did not meet earlier that day) and I realized that I had not given anyone a scent article of mine but there was no way I was going to walk back the 20 minutes or so to the staging area so I laid on the ground for an hour. [They wanted an trail that was not fresh.] The handler swiped my car door handle with a swab, used that as a scent article and the dog found me! Some dogs are simply amazing.

 

[Theonly1]

http://wbztv.com/local/rhode.island.mob.2.869097.html

This article talks about "police dogs"..........that is entirely different from S/R dogs and cadaver dogs. The training is totally different. Not to say police dogs can't smell a cadaver, because some of them can and will, but they are not trained to alert on them and the handlers are trained to use the dogs for catching perps and sometime train them for drugs.

You are talking about apples and oranges here.........there is no relevance.

AMEN! I would never play "victim" for a police dog. You may never see your arm again.

There are:
Police dogs (for catching criminals, sniffing bombs)
Cadaver dogs (for locating human remains)
Search dogs/trailing dogs (for locating live humans)

They, of course, can be cross-trained but I would be leery of using a straight up attack police dog as a search dog. It is totally different mentality.

 

[Theonly1]

Well, one thing Anderson knew was that an alert is not hard evidence. The dog actually needs to find some material evidence to be successful. Gerus was not successful. Had he been successful maybe he would have sniffed his way down to Suburban and we would have a more definite timeline.

Actually, I think Gerus was successful! How could he have found (within the limits of his leash) what was not there (i.e., Caylee's body)? He alerted to decomp in the trunk, where lab results later confirm there was evidence of decomp fluids. The dogs are not trained to pick up items but to "alert" which he did.

Could he have pulled wildly at his leash or, if off leash, took off running towards Suburban? I guess he could have but we have no evidence to know Gerus as an air scenting dog. I also assume Casey took Caylee to Surburban via her Sunfire (and not on foot) so what scent trail would there be to follow? I think Gerus was not an air scenting dog (but ground scenting) so he would not have been the type to take off down the street like a bloodhound.

Now, had they taken Gerus to Suburban and he failed to locate the remains then I would agree with you.