Deceased/Not Found Canada - Alvin, 66, & Kathy Liknes, 53, Nathan O'Brien, 5, Calgary, 30 Jun 2014 - #11

[Cherchri]

Having just watched the press release yesterday, I can say with certainty that Andrus first said "violent crime" and then later called it a violent incident. He was asked if things were "tossed about" and he refused to answer. He did not deny that there was blood and said they were "examining evidence to determine the exact nature and extent of the crime as well as who the potential victims are." I took notes.

As you know it is I who have vociferously argued this point. My argument was that reporters and sleuths were saying violent struggle as opposed to violent incident. There's a HUGE difference. Also, Andrus never mentioned blood. You say he didn't deny there was blood? Please clarify what you mean by that. I, again, have no doubt there was blood but my point was that LE was especially careful in choosing their words. They never said struggle they never mentioned blood. Or did I miss something?

 

[Lalalacasbah]

Not sure if this particular image has been posted. I have seen similar but this one has a distinct pattern that I had not seen before. Sorry if already posted.
View attachment 56057
http://cdn.c.photoshelter.com/img-get/I0000Ji_oQh8gTgY/s/600/480/QMI-CS2014701DM040-original.jpg

Funny you posted this tonight, the last few days at my work place (a large multi-building hospital) I always take a short cut to get to buildings and I cut through the shipping&receiving loading dock/laundry/housekeeping area and lately I've noticed 'drag marks' on the pavement while taking this short cut. I can't figure out how the drags marks are made at the hospital! But it got me thinking...drag marks don't necessarily mean a person was dragged, but could be a mop or even wheels on something (the marks didn't look like wheels as the liquid expanded on pavement, but I was thinking of what kind of traffic would leave a liquid trail in that area of the hospital). The pattern in your photo reminds me of how someone would swivel a mop maybe.

 

[Cherchri]

I think that may be an LE vehicle. Not 100% sure though.

There was a report early on in the search of LE tearing apart a vehicle on the property.

 

[otto]

otto I found this photo of the Parkhill home with different views of the back of the home of which I had not seen before.
http://i0.wp.com/media.globalnews.ca/videostatic/55/447/GC140701_Noon_Jenna.jpg?w=670
There appears to be very large windows and/or patio door on the back area of the home. Possible alternate entry points that WS was not aware of before.

Thanks. I think so too. I actually added a patio door to the plan a few days ago ... I think that is where the recliner (from kijiji) is located.

Ignore the "top level bedroom" remark. What I mean is that above that level (that part of the house) is where the master bedroom is located. I think that on the garage level, on the wall opposite the side door, there is a patio door leading to the back yard. That means that there were several exits on the main level and the side door level. If no one of the family could escape, perhaps they were at the top level (above garage). It seems to me that if the grandparents had a chance, they would have yelled for Nathan to run.

 

[news.talk]

Funny you posted this tonight, the last few days at my work place (a large multi-building hospital) I always take a short cut to get to buildings and I cut through the shipping&receiving loading dock/laundry/housekeeping area and lately I've noticed 'drag marks' on the pavement while taking this short cut. I can't figure out how the drags marks are made at the hospital! But it got me thinking...drag marks don't necessarily mean a person was dragged, but could be a mop or even wheels on something (the marks didn't look like wheels as the liquid expanded on pavement, but I was thinking of what kind of traffic would leave a liquid trail in that area of the hospital). The pattern in your photo reminds me of how someone would swivel a mop maybe.

I thought wheels at first too but it reminds me of the mess a leaky bag makes when carrying it to the garbage. It has no distinct pattern like wheels or something being dragged.

 

[Cherchri]

Not sure if this particular image has been posted. I have seen similar but this one has a distinct pattern that I had not seen before. Sorry if already posted.
View attachment 56057
http://cdn.c.photoshelter.com/img-get/I0000Ji_oQh8gTgY/s/600/480/QMI-CS2014701DM040-original.jpg

I have never seen this. Thank you. Looks like wheel marks from a dolly!

 

[Lalalacasbah]

Not sure if this particular image has been posted. I have seen similar but this one has a distinct pattern that I had not seen before. Sorry if already posted.
View attachment 56057
http://cdn.c.photoshelter.com/img-get/I0000Ji_oQh8gTgY/s/600/480/QMI-CS2014701DM040-original.jpg

Another thing the pattern might be is if a swiggly hose was left on the wet sidewalk (or a wet hose from something) for awhile then removed (put back?), but the outline/pattern stayed on the pavement. I have no idea, just grasping at thoughts.

 

[birdlady2]

In doing some research on photos and kijiji ads that were posted, I came upon a link of a leather couch that was for sale on kijiji from AL and KL's estate sale however it is linked to ebay. I have no experience with ebay but maybe some else does. Was wondering if KL and AL were advertising their household items on ebay. Can anyone check?

Here is the photo link and I recognize it from the kijiji ads.
View attachment 56055
http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/NTk4WDgwMA==/z/IKAAAOSwoQ1TmJZJ/$_35.JPG

kijiji ad of same photo
http://www.kijiji.ca/v-furniture-lot/calgary/moving-estate-sale/601673918

Kijiji is a subsidiary of Ebay. They launched it back in 2005 and it is was changed in 2010 to Ebay Classifieds. Ebay members can use EBay's photo services for these ads on Kijiji. I had a look in the completed auctions for that particular couch but it isn't in the regular auctions so it probably was just on the classified ads.

 

[news.talk]

I have never seen this. Thank you. Looks like wheel marks from a dolly!

I thought so too at first but the random twisting stumped me. Unless it had a shakey wheel...

Who's up to a re-creation testing all theories?

 

[Cattools]

As you know it is I who have vociferously argued this point. My argument was that reporters and sleuths were saying violent struggle as opposed to violent incident. There's a HUGE difference. Also, Andrus never mentioned blood. You say he didn't deny there was blood? Please clarify what you mean by that. I, again, have no doubt there was blood but my point was that LE was especially careful in choosing their words. They never said struggle they never mentioned blood. Or did I muss something?

I am trying to find the link...
In the meantime I can tell you what my notes say and what my recollection is having just watched it yesterday. I believe a reporter asked about blood in the house and Andrus said that they had to determine how many people's blood.
However, I am looking for the link. It was the July 4 presser

 

[otto]

I always wondered about this kijiji ad and where in the home the room and furniture were. I can see that it is very likely the photos above correspond with the kijiji ad photo.
http://www.kijiji.ca/v-furniture-lot/calgary/moving-estate-sale/601673918

Could it be upstairs, directly above the garage, behind the double door and balcony on the front of the house?

 

[Lalalacasbah]

I thought wheels at first too but it reminds me of the mess a leaky bag makes when carrying it to the garbage. It has no distinct pattern like wheels or something being dragged.

I think mop or wheels too, pavement looks smooth but isn't. If you push something with small wheels on pavement the wheels will swivel and make an irregular pattern. Kind of a morbid thought (I hate typing gruesome stuff, try not to) but I wonder if that's how he dragged a 200lb man out of the house? Maybe he put AL in a computer/desk chair with little wheels on it and pushed him out.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

Like the wheels on the desk chair in the background might make that pattern, little wheels that rotate while moving. It would've only had to be one wheel that was wet to leave a pattern as it doesn't look like more than one on the pavement.

 

[LayzeeDayzee]

Not sure if this particular image has been posted. I have seen similar but this one has a distinct pattern that I had not seen before. Sorry if already posted.
View attachment 56057
http://cdn.c.photoshelter.com/img-get/I0000Ji_oQh8gTgY/s/600/480/QMI-CS2014701DM040-original.jpg

Why does that wall to the right of the concrete look totally black? Perhaps the photographer intentionally blacked it out for some reason? Looks like there was something else on that wall.........you can see lighter marks. Maybe photographer blacked out entire wall to hide these "marks"?

Wasn't it posted somewhere way back, shortly after they went missing, something about there having been graffiti on the house?

 

[Cherchri]

I think mop or wheels too, pavement looks smooth but isn't. If you push something with small wheels on pavement the wheels will swivel and make an irregular pattern. Kind of a morbid thought (I hate typing gruesome stuff, try not to) but I wonder if that's how he dragged a 200lb man out of the house? Maybe he put AL in a computer/desk chair with little wheels on it and pushed him out.

That's kind of brilliant you know! I was just looking at various dollies some like skateboards with a flat board but an office chair would be an awesome way to transport someone.

 

[news.talk]

Like the wheels on the desk chair in the background might make that pattern, little wheels that rotate while moving. It would've only had to be one wheel that was wet to leave a pattern as it doesn't look like more than one on the pavement.View attachment 56061

That makes sense... they swivel.

 

[LayzeeDayzee]

Okay I did a search of old posts re: this case for word graffiti and came across this old post, #205..........

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?249585-Canada-AMBER-ALERT-Nathan-O-Brien-5-Calgary-30-June-2014-6&p=10732197&highlight=graffiti#post10732197

 

[Cherchri]

I suppose if you look at the hose and if it was trickling a little from the position it was it could also have made a little trail where blood was spilled?
http://cdn.c.photoshelter.com/img-get/I0000Ji_oQh8gTgY/s/600/480/QMI-CS2014701DM040-original.jpg

 

[Cattools]

I am trying to find the link...
In the meantime I can tell you what my notes say and what my recollection is having just watched it yesterday. I believe a reporter asked about blood in the house and Andrus said that they had to determine how many people's blood.
However, I am looking for the link. It was the July 4 presser

Here's the link https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n4g3rlvtTBo
And although my notes say that he said they would have to determine how many people's blood, I definitely did NOT hear him say that or refer to blood when I listened this time. Reporters said blood but Andrus referred to it as evidence. Guess I was really tired last night (or was it the night before?) when I listened. He does begin by saying a "violent crime" and then at 6:10 he says "violent incident". Thank you for your attention to detail because I think it is really important too. So easy to infer things...

 

[Cherchri]

Here's the link https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n4g3rlvtTBo
And although my notes say that he said they would have to determine how many people's blood, I definitely did NOT hear him say that or refer to blood when I listened this time. Reporters said blood but Andrus referred to it as evidence. Guess I was really tired last night (or was it the night before?) when I listened. He does begin by saying a "violent crime" and then at 6:10 he says "violent incident". Thank you for your attention to detail because I think it is really important too. So easy to infer things...

I thank you! Yes it is so important and I tend to get a bit rattled at how people interchange words willy nilly. When I was a cub reporter this was drilled into me. One can't put words in someone else's mouth.