Deceased/Not Found Canada - Alvin, 66, & Kathy Liknes, 53, Nathan O'Brien, 5, Calgary, 30 Jun 2014 - #26

[MistyWaters]

I suppose that in the face of inconclusive evidence, each of us following a gruesome case settles on a personal theory that seems right. This is mine.

It's based on evidence that was found on the acreage, a book on poison and needles were present as well. Garland packed some sort of injectable poison in his murder supply kit that he brought along. While he may not have originally intended to use it if the shackles, handcuffs and garrottes had gone right, instead he chose to inject the trio with poison at the point of loading the bodies in the truck box while they were, or almost at the point of unconscious due to severe head injuries.

My reason is that he didn't have a medical background and would not be able to determine the difference if a limp body was unconscious or dead.

Because unexpected time was also required to clean up the scene after the bodies were loaded, it was a risk that sound or movement in the truck box might attract attention. He determined their certain death should occur sooner rather than later.

This is the reason why Garland left the acreage almost as soon as he arrived - he knew he had no concern that his victims would arouse any attention.

Death occurring in the truck box is somewhat comforting because the trio were all together and touching, if that's any consultation to an otherwise morbid happening.

My opinion....

 

[deugirtni]

From this link:
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calga...e-murder-liknes-nathan-obrien-day-7-1.3949883


Items found in the Garland basement:
Book - Be*Your Own Undertaker:*How to Dispose of a Dead Body.
Book -*Silent Death.
Computer hard drive hidden in rafters.
Whips.
Straitjacket.
36 tubes of dental anesthetic.*
VHS tape dated 2014/07/07 and titled 'News, unsolved homicides."
Tyvek suit almost identical to ones used by forensic examiners plus booties and facemasks.*
8 pairs of women's shoes, size 13.
2 blonde women's wigs.
Adult diaper +*eBay receipt.

Thank you. Found it. The VHS tapes weren't hidden in the rafters, they were found in the basement along with all of the other stuff.

Bill Graveland ?@BillGraveland Jan 24

There were 36 vials - it's a dental anesthetic, said Oxton. VHS tests were also recovered from the basement - racks of them on the wall.

The VHS cassetts - one a Meth documentary - another is on unsolved homicides. As well as the British comedy - Keeping Up Appearances.

 

[Hatfield]

I was expecting the Crown to introduce evidence in this respect but it seems they won't be.

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JMO
I was hoping for more evidence to tell us one way or the other and so far I dont think it is conclusive one way or the other.

People can die of heart attacks in trauma situations
Blundt force alone can cause people to die

Just too many variables right now and I dont think we will ever know for sure.

Ive been wondering what building he took them to on his property when he first got there with them. He had an appointment to go to and would have dropped them off as fast as he could. Do we know what building he first took them to?

I think it was the larger one near the other 2 smaller sheds where we saw the overhead photo. But not sure.
I think some of the other blood at the farm was DG transferring it around to other places as he dismembered to burn bodies.

I also wonder about the shovel. Did he possibly bury some of the larger parts or like the skulls because he could not burn them?

 

[olivebpa1]

JMO
I was hoping for more evidence to tell us one way or the other and so far I dont think it is conclusive one way or the other.

People can die of heart attacks in trauma situations
Blundt force alone can cause people to die

Just too many variables right now and I dont think we will ever know for sure.

Ive been wondering what building he took them to on his property when he first got there with them. He had an appointment to go to and would have dropped them off as fast as he could. Do we know what building he first took them to?

I think it was the larger one near the other 2 smaller sheds where we saw the overhead photo. But not sure.
I think some of the other blood at the farm was DG transferring it around to other places as he dismembered to burn bodies.

I also wonder about the shovel. Did he possibly bury some of the larger parts or like the skulls because he could not burn them?

I think he left them in the trailer that was by the 2 smaller shed type buildings. The crown refers to them as the south outbuildings. I think you are talking about the same place. That is where the pack of disposable diapers were found.

 

[MistyWaters]

Tweets from Day#1

Kevin Martin-Justice Gates urges jurors to take advantage of counselling services available for them during or after the #Garland trial.

Valerie Fortney-Judge says counselling will be available to jurors during or after #garland trial

Great stuff! Otto, you might be thinking of debriefing services which do involve actual discussion. I imagine court offered "Counselling services" takes an educational approach, such as techniques to maintain a balanced perspective, relaxation and sleep strategies, etc.

 

[deugirtni]

Maybe they will tie it together in closing?

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They can tie it together in closing, but what the Crown and Defence say during closing statements are not evidence. To date they have not proven beyond a reasonable doubt that the victims were alive when they left the L property. The possibility that one or more could have been alive, or could have been dead, isn't really compelling evidence one way or the other.

Lucie Edwardson ?@MetroLucie Feb 1
"It was entirely possible that 3 missing individuals sustained none fatal, or fatal injuries at the home," said Brooks-Lim. #Garland #yyc

 

[nettie_82]

Just a thought that occurred to me. If the 3 had died at the house, and when someone dies bodily fluids are released. Would there not have been some sort of evidence at the house from this?

 

[PrincessButtercup]

Just a thought that occurred to me. If the 3 had died at the house, and when someone dies bodily fluids are released. Would there not have been some sort of evidence at the house from this?

It doesn't always happen. My late husband died suddenly in the shower and there was no release of body fluids.

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[deugirtni]

True . . It seems he was still alive outside the house as there is blood there, not a substantial amount. Possibly another head injury was inflicted and he passed away there. My hope but my gut feeling says no. DG seems had planned this for months and NO was not part of that plan. I think he had to come up with another plan for NO and thus took him to the farm alive.

A swab of a bloodstain does not speak to whether the blood came from a live or dead person.

 

[otto]

Medical Examiner offices plagued with problems
http://www.cbc.ca/beta/news/canada/edmonton/medical-examiner-autopsy-deaths-alberta-1.3973140

 

[Hatfield]

I think he left them in the trailer that was by the 2 smaller shed type buildings. The crown refers to them as the south outbuildings. I think you are talking about the same place. That is where the pack of disposable diapers were found.

Yes that is my guess where he first took them.

To me it is a small hint they may have been dead when they got there. Unless he had something to handcuff them to inside that place which is possible too. Was hoping by knowing the building it may help us know one way or the other whether they had perished.

 

[MistyWaters]

They can tie it together in closing, but what the Crown and Defence say during closing statements are not evidence. To date they have not proven beyond a reasonable doubt that the victims were alive when they left the L property. The possibility that one or more could have been alive, or could have been dead, isn't really compelling evidence one way or the other.

Lucie Edwardson ?@MetroLucie Feb 1
"It was entirely possible that 3 missing individuals sustained none fatal, or fatal injuries at the home," said Brooks-Lim. #Garland #yyc

The jury will be asked to deliberate if Garland is guilty of causing the deaths beyond a reasonable doubt by weighing the vast amount of evidence. If the exact details - how, when, why - were required to be proven, many murderers would walk.

 

[olivebpa1]

It doesn't always happen. My late husband died suddenly in the shower and there was no release of body fluids.

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There has been a lot of talk about this on here so I decided to research it and what you are saying is true. In fact from what I read it's not the norm. It depends on how full the bladder and bowels are and where the stool is at the time of death.

 

[JadeSLeuth]

Nancy HixtVerified account ‏@NancyHixt 1m1 minute ago
More
Day 17-Crown to call final witnesses at triple-murder trial of Douglas #Garland Thursday

 

[JadeSLeuth]

Bill GravelandVerified account ‏@BillGraveland 34s35 seconds ago
The Crown in the Douglas #Garland triple murder trial will wrap up its case today. Two witnesses are scheduled to testify.

 

[Tealgrove]

With the Crown wrapping up today, I am assuming (and I know it's never good to assume) that if the Defence is to put on a defence that will start tomorrow. If they decide not to put on a Defence I think closing arguments will be sometime next week. I know they gave a few days IIRC at the Bosma Trial for the Defence and Crown to get their summations prepared.

I'm going to guess that the Jury gets the case late next week or early the following week.

I think it will be a relief for all concerned (excluding DG) to have this over and done with. It has been hard on everyone.

MOO

 

[JadeSLeuth]

Quote Originally Posted by PrincessButtercup View Post
It doesn't always happen. My late husband died suddenly in the shower and there was no release of body fluids.



:grouphug:

 

[JadeSLeuth]

Valerie Fortney ‏@ValFortney 40s41 seconds ago
Court has just started for Day 17 of #Garland triple-murder trial. Cst. Lane Trim is first up for testimony.

 

[JadeSLeuth]

Lucie Edwardson ‏@MetroLucie 45s46 seconds ago
Trim has been a member of CPS for 12 years and works in the air support unit- HAWCS helicopter. #Garland #yyc

 

[JadeSLeuth]

Lucie Edwardson ‏@MetroLucie 30s31 seconds ago
Trim, a tactical flight officer, operates to all the equipment within HAWCS and helps officers on the ground. #Garland #yyc


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