Deceased/Not Found Canada - Alvin, 66, & Kathy Liknes, 53, Nathan O'Brien, 5, Calgary, 30 June 2014 - #1

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The lights being left on might indicate whomever was there was not too concerned about being seen, no matter what the time was.

The K's home appears very visible from the street.

imo
 
Can't stop thinking about the timing here.

Thurs., June 26th was the last day of school for Calgary students (public and separate boards). Unless Nathan attended private school, this was his last day of kindergarten.

So this was the first official summer weekend. However, being that it was Canada Day yesterday, this was a very popular weekend to leave town. An odd weekend to have an estate sale, IMO, especially if you have had 6 months to prepare to move.

Starting Thursday, Calgary hosts our Stampede. Greatest Outdoor show on Earth with a huge influx of people. Parties everywhere, hotels packed and I'm hoping to see posters of Nathan everywhere I go.
 
Also, the lights being on, kind of runs counter-intuitive to the theory that "someone cared".

If either Grandparent had taken Nathan, hypothetically, in a PLANNED situation, they LIKELY would NOT have left all those lights on.

Heck, any perpetrator of a PLANNED "hit", "abduction" or anything else, would NOT likely have left the lights on. A chandelier specifically, on all night, would likely be fairly conspicuous.

The lights on, if indeed they WERE left on all night, indicates a fairly tight timeframe to me, and also an UNPLANNED act.

JMO (again)
 
Earlier in the thread, someone mentioned that the grandfather's facebook page listed his home in Edmonton, while the grandmother listed her home in Calgary. Perhaps they were keeping a home in Edmonton for business and one in Mexico for vacation and they were going to be staying in one or the other place depending on weather and work.
<rsbm>

Otto, just catching up this morning. That was me, but I was looking at the wrong FB account. I'm so sorry for having caused any confusion. If Alvin wasn't *advertiser censored**en or Aj, then I'm not sure a FB account for Alvin actually exists (or has possibly been removed??)
 
Wondering if the lights were on because the family had them on, or if the LE turned them on (after dusting for prints), or perp/s put them on to look for something, or to throw LE off timing of disappearance?

Some tidbits I found interesting, fwiw...

http://science.howstuffworks.com/csi3.htm

"Consider This

Crime scenes are three dimensional. CSIs should remember to look up.
If a CSI shines a flashlight on the ground at various angles, even when there's plenty of lighting, he'll create new shadows that could reveal evidence.
It's easy to recover DNA from cigarette butts.

While searching the scene, a CSI is looking for details including:

Are the doors and windows locked or unlocked? Open or shut? Are there signs of forced entry, such as tool marks or broken locks?
Is the house in good order? If not, does it look like there was a struggle or was the victim just messy?
Is there mail lying around? Has it been opened?
Is the kitchen in good order? Is there any partially eaten food? Is the table set? If so, for how many people?
Are there signs of a party, such as empty glasses or bottles or full ashtrays?
If there are full ashtrays, what brands of cigarettes are present? Are there any lipstick or teeth marks on the butts?
Is there anything that seems out of place? A glass with lipstick marks in a man's apartment, or the toilet seat up in a woman's apartment? Is there a couch blocking a doorway?
Is there trash in the trash cans? Is there anything out of the ordinary in the trash? Is the trash in the right chronological order according to dates on mail and other papers? If not, someone might have been looking for something in the victim's trash.
Do the clocks show the right time?
Are the bathroom towels wet? Are the bathroom towels missing? Are there any signs of a cleanup?
If the crime is a shooting, how many shots were fired? The CSI will try to locate the gun, each bullet, each shell casing and each bullet hole.
If the crime is a stabbing, is a knife obviously missing from victim's kitchen? If so, the crime may not have been premeditated.
Are there any shoe prints on tile, wood or linoleum floors or in the area immediately outside the building?
Are there any tire marks in the driveway or in the area around the building?
Is there any blood splatter on floors, walls or ceilings? "

bbm.
 
My guess is that police are going to discourage the family from posting a reward so soon after the disappearance, as it could lead to an awful lot of false leads and waste valuable police resources. In my opinion, the family should give police time to do the investigation. Additionally, posting a reward seems to imply that the family, although desperate for the return of their son, is convinced that this was a kidnapping where money is the objective. I'm not convinced of that.
<bbm>

I'm not convinced either, but could be a way of keeping someone off balance by thinking that kidnapping is being considered primary motive while other avenues are being pursued.

There's also the previous mention that Nathan's mom was needing time before speaking publicly (paraphrased from memory), but that hasn't happened as yet.
 
" Police and family members have scheduled a press briefing for 3 p.m. MT Wednesday."



http://www.cbc.ca/m/touch/canada/story/1.2694198

"Responding to media reports that the family of the missing boy and grandparents is considering offering a large cash reward for information about their disappearance, Calgary police Chief Rick Hanson advised against it.

&#8220;I think it&#8217;s important to allow the police to do their job, let the resources be applied,&#8221; he said.

Hanson said the promise of a reward could do more harm than good by promoting inaccurate information and distracting investigators."
 
" Police and family members have scheduled a press briefing for 3 p.m. MT Wednesday."



http://www.cbc.ca/m/touch/canada/story/1.2694198

"Responding to media reports that the family of the missing boy and grandparents is considering offering a large cash reward for information about their disappearance, Calgary police Chief Rick Hanson advised against it.

“I think it’s important to allow the police to do their job, let the resources be applied,” he said.

Hanson said the promise of a reward could do more harm than good by promoting inaccurate information and distracting investigators."


Why is LE so against the reward? Solely because of increased workload? They are experts, they should be able to weed through bogus claims fairly quickly. I mean, it's kind of their job. I find this bizarre.
 
Why is LE so against the reward? Solely because of increased workload? They are experts, they should be able to weed through bogus claims fairly quickly. I mean, it's kind of their job. I find this bizarre.

I think there's a lot they are not telling the public....
 
Why is LE so against the reward? Solely because of increased workload? They are experts, they should be able to weed through bogus claims fairly quickly. I mean, it's kind of their job. I find this bizarre.

I disagree. Even bogus, goofy sounding leads require investigation and many man hours to at least rule-out that lead as being valid. The Calgary Police Service only has a certain # of officers/investigators (as any city's police service does) and the countless man-hours spent verifying that crazy-sounding "tips/leads" are just that, crazy, can really tie up resources that could be much better spent following-up on credible leads. Just because it's "their job" doesn't mean they suddenly have additional manpower to call in........and even bizarre, crazy sounding leads require as much time/investigation as the possibly credible sounding leads. With high monetary rewards every tom, dick and harry is hoping for a shot at the money.
 
Global Noon News calgary just announce :
Police are releasing new photos of all three
Also requesting anyone who was at the Estate Sale to go to Parkhill Community Centre tomorrow from 10 am - 10pm to talk to police
Also if you bought ANYTHING at the sale they want you to take a picture of it and bring it with you so they can determine what was sold and compare with what was left in the home
 
Why is LE so against the reward? Solely because of increased workload? They are experts, they should be able to weed through bogus claims fairly quickly. I mean, it's kind of their job. I find this bizarre.

Police are not in favour of a reward because it will do nothing to advance the investigation, or solve the disappearance. Rewards for information about a criminal act have been studied and the conclusion is that they do not make a difference in terms of solving the crime. Rewards do make a difference in terms of increasing the number of useless tips that are provided to investigators.
 
Global Noon News calgary just announce :
Police are releasing new photos of all three
Also requesting anyone who was at the Estate Sale to go to Parkhill Community Centre tomorrow from 10 am - 10pm to talk to police
Also if you bought ANYTHING at the sale they want you to take a picture of it and bring it with you so they can determine what was sold and compare with what was left in the home

Ah, sounds like they are wondering what is missing from the home? The unusual condition of the home = ransacked? Was someone looking for something in particular?

The only new piece of info. I have been able to find this morning is that the selling price of the house was $705k in December, 2013.
 
Global Noon News calgary just announce :
Police are releasing new photos of all three
Also requesting anyone who was at the Estate Sale to go to Parkhill Community Centre tomorrow from 10 am - 10pm to talk to police
Also if you bought ANYTHING at the sale they want you to take a picture of it and bring it with you so they can determine what was sold and compare with what was left in the home

BBM

What a hot mess. They can't even figure out if anything is missing from the home (and therefore, if robbery could have been a motive for a home invasion) without knowing what was sold at the sale. They won't know what was sold at the sale unless everyone from the sale comes to them with pictures of what they purchased. Then I guess the family will have to look at what was in the home, pictures of items sold (and that is assuming every attendee of the sale shows up with pictures.. doubtful) and try to figure out what is missing. This will be a difficult task for the family because the easiest way to tell if something is missing from a home is if it is out-of-place. In this case, everything is out of place.

:banghead: Argh. I do not envy investigators in this case.
 
Nathan has been abducted, and his grandparents are considered missing.

It really is that simple.

LE are really not sure about this case, BUT, I am VERY thankful that they have issued the Amber Alert, albeit in a non-traditional way, despite the circumstances clearly not fitting the Amber Alert criteria.



http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calga...ssing-as-amber-alert-remains-active-1.2693188

So when the daughter left at 10pm her mother was dressed for bed in pjs but the dad and Nathan were still in their street clothes. I am behind so could someone fill me in about the lights being on. TY!

Also, I am glad they are putting up more pictures. Are those driver license photos of the grandparents that we have been seeing?
 
I disagree. Even bogus, goofy sounding leads require investigation and many man hours to at least rule-out that lead as being valid. The Calgary Police Service only has a certain # of officers/investigators (as any city's police service does) and the countless man-hours spent verifying that crazy-sounding "tips/leads" are just that, crazy, can really tie up resources that could be much better spent following-up on credible leads. Just because it's "their job" doesn't mean they suddenly have additional manpower to call in........and even bizarre, crazy sounding leads require as much time/investigation as the possibly credible sounding leads. With high monetary rewards every tom, dick and harry is hoping for a shot at the money.

I actually found it more unusual that the family thought a reward of $100k would lead to a resolution and bring their son home. That might work in countries where people are kidnapped specifically for money, but this wasn't a child abduction. The grandparents were the target here, and the child was just at the wrong place at the wrong time. With blood at the scene, the parents were not targetted with the intent to leave them unharmed.
 
Ah, sounds like they are wondering what is missing from the home? The unusual condition of the home = ransacked? Was someone looking for something in particular?

The only new piece of info. I have been able to find this morning is that the selling price of the house was $705k in December, 2013.

That's onlly $10k more than the Tax Assessment. Wouldn't they have be able to sell for a lot more today?
 
Ugh, so many people coming and going, touching everything, items leaving the house. It must be like DNA soup in there.

Now who would have used that fact to their advantage?
 
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