Unfortunately, LE have to be very careful about what is said so that the accused doesn't get off the charges for not being able to have a fair trial and have a tainted jury, etc. We are SO lenient in this country.
Deceased/Not Found Canada - Alvin, 66, & Kathy Liknes, 53, Nathan O'Brien, 5, Calgary, 30 June 2014 - #5
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Unfortunately, LE have to be very careful about what is said so that the accused doesn't get off the charges for not being able to have a fair trial and have a tainted jury, etc. We are SO lenient in this country.
Stolen? Unlawful possession means having something in your possession against the law - not necessarily stolen. I think the bank card is tied to the other charge of identity theft. jmo
"Garland faces charges of identity theft and unlawfully possessing a bank card. The charges are unrelated to the missing persons investigation."
kittymeow
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People are treating that "200" number like it's set in stone. It's an estimate. I bet very few people, if any, know about the request to go and haven't gone yet.
Yes, thank you for that. I try really really hard to be a non-judgmental person, and always try to consider that one knows not, until one has walked a road for him/herself. I can truly understand your reaction in your own circumstances. (I am still having difficulty with hers though, but please go easy on me because this is the one place where I felt I could express that difficulty).
OutOfTheDarkness
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Missywatson
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Trying to figure out how to post!
That's what I'm thinking too. If mom, dad, and two children stopped at the sale, it's four people, but I would bet that only mom or dad would take time out of the day to stop in with photos and comments.
Missywatson
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Ok... Maybe I'm in now! Some thoughts after a week of lurking (took me a while to get registred) and as a former resident of Parkhill:
Bankruptcies of junior oil companies are common
Bankruptcies of all small entrepreneurial ventures are common
Al and KL probably had advice from an accountant on how to wind-up their Calgary assets which would have included a lease-back arrangement on the sale of their home until they were ready to close on anothe property or make their move
The house sold for under market value because Calgary is a screwed up market with inflated prices. It's not unusual to sell your mid-range home for well under asking. Luxury homes are where the big dollars are made. It can also take forever to sell your house, even in a hot neighbourhood. It is NOT like Toronto or Vancouver.
Common to liquidate as much stuff as possible when relocating to a new city or downsizing -i've done two cross-country moves
People have NO IDEA what the value of their stuff is and if this was their first real Kijij foray, they probably listed everything too high... Experienced sellers get over that.
NO was in the wrong place at the wrong time
This is either about money or sick revenge
Green truck was casing for low activity at the home
Bodies are not in the brush, river or parkland near Elbow River. Too much human traffic and lots of coyotes. Elbow runs too shallow for bodies to make it far.
LE is throwing resources into Airdrie to find some kind of evidence. They are in a race against the clock and how long they can legally hold DG. They are digging up any dirt they can on him and likely have a case to hold him with no bail because of flight risk.
People aren't coming forward re: items bought at sale because they may have been through but didn't buy.
Blood at scene could have been from a nosebleed from getting slugged. Lots of blood! Nose broken but not life threatening.
Business links point to motive and I'm sure LE has an analyst chasing money but it takes time.
My theory:
Whoever did this is very very smart.
Chose an opportunity when evidence would be hard to collect.
No bodies, hard to prove a crime. They are gone. Won't be found.
LE need forensics but it might be completely circumstantial which won't be enough.
A profiler could be brought in to investigate possible links between McCanns, Carsons and other couples who have disappeared or been mudered under suspicious circumstances
My heart goes out to this family.
Bankruptcies of junior oil companies are common
Bankruptcies of all small entrepreneurial ventures are common
Al and KL probably had advice from an accountant on how to wind-up their Calgary assets which would have included a lease-back arrangement on the sale of their home until they were ready to close on anothe property or make their move
The house sold for under market value because Calgary is a screwed up market with inflated prices. It's not unusual to sell your mid-range home for well under asking. Luxury homes are where the big dollars are made. It can also take forever to sell your house, even in a hot neighbourhood. It is NOT like Toronto or Vancouver.
Common to liquidate as much stuff as possible when relocating to a new city or downsizing -i've done two cross-country moves
People have NO IDEA what the value of their stuff is and if this was their first real Kijij foray, they probably listed everything too high... Experienced sellers get over that.
NO was in the wrong place at the wrong time
This is either about money or sick revenge
Green truck was casing for low activity at the home
Bodies are not in the brush, river or parkland near Elbow River. Too much human traffic and lots of coyotes. Elbow runs too shallow for bodies to make it far.
LE is throwing resources into Airdrie to find some kind of evidence. They are in a race against the clock and how long they can legally hold DG. They are digging up any dirt they can on him and likely have a case to hold him with no bail because of flight risk.
People aren't coming forward re: items bought at sale because they may have been through but didn't buy.
Blood at scene could have been from a nosebleed from getting slugged. Lots of blood! Nose broken but not life threatening.
Business links point to motive and I'm sure LE has an analyst chasing money but it takes time.
My theory:
Whoever did this is very very smart.
Chose an opportunity when evidence would be hard to collect.
No bodies, hard to prove a crime. They are gone. Won't be found.
LE need forensics but it might be completely circumstantial which won't be enough.
A profiler could be brought in to investigate possible links between McCanns, Carsons and other couples who have disappeared or been mudered under suspicious circumstances
My heart goes out to this family.
Carli, you should be a writer.
This family sure has a lot of 'excitement' about it. It's not typical.
Thank you for your insights! This must be having quite an impact on the neighbourhood.
When you say that the perp must be smart, do you mean that this appears to be premeditated?
Plumeria5
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Long time lurker, first time poster.
Still catching up on how this thread has progressed today--kudos all on some excellent sleuthing! But had to jump in and post re: DG Intelligence/ADHD/drug lab
I have severe ADHD and have read a lot about it so I think I can shed some light on a few things:
Stimulant drugs effect people with ADHD VERY differently to non-ADHD people. Ex: caffeine has no effect, I can drink a pot of espresso and go to bed. When I was in university, I had classmates who would take Adderall to let them stay up all night and study, etc. that doesn't work if you have ADHD, Adderall, etc will just help tone down the distractions and make it easier to focus at closer to a degree that non-ADHD people would experience on a daily basis.
Medication can help to manage ADHD symptoms but it in no way erases them. Think of it as having a brain that is like an out of control Ferrari,it jumps around constantly,makes wild turns, etc. medication can just put you in the drivers seat of the out of control Ferrari, it doesn't change much else.
Which is one of the reasons why the more severe the ADHD, the more likely the person will have bouts, sometimes long ones of feeling completely overwhelmed. When this happens, it has a sort if freezing effect. Similar to standing at a fork in the road and being clueless which way to go and becoming sort of immobilized as a result.
ADHD and intellect tend to go hand in hand--usual people with ADHD rank in the top 5% of the population intelligence wise. This is actually a major negative because there is a huge shame factor associated with asking for help when the thought is that if you're so smart you should be able to handle it.
ADHD causes major impulsiveness. As a result people with ADHD constantly self check and often over self check. This also sort of explains the loner thing to me because constant self checking can make it difficult to let people close enough to build meaningful relationships and with ADHD you wind up so lost in thought so much of the time that it's hard to resist spending hours alone thinking things out.
Where I'm confused is if DG was circling the L's area in his truck,that rules out an impulsive act because the extra circles would very likely kick in a self check thought along the lines of "wait a minute, what am I doing?"
If this was not an impulsive act, same difference. People with ADHD cannot handle repetitive activities such as circling a block without automatically self checking, zoning out, loosing interest, forgetting what they're doing.
Ex: I had to pick up a friend recently, couldn't find the address on my first drive down the street,turned around at the end of the block and drove back and missed the address again but this time I missed it because I had already been down the block, it wasn't new/interesting to me anymore and I forgot to look for it. I drove up and down several times and tried everything I could think to try to persuade myself to focus on finding the address before giving up, calling my friend to come meet me where I'd stopped. Totally embarrassing, it may seem like a total idiot move and it was but point is that's typical ADHD.
Other thing is DG seems like an absolute science nerd. I think it's a major stretch to think he went from cooking up amphetamines to triple kidnap/possible murder. Even the prior charges for possessing a weapon can be pretty easily explained given a) he lives on a fRm and may have wanted it to protect against wild animals and/or b) he may have wanted it for protection given who he may encounter cooking up drugs.
Still catching up on how this thread has progressed today--kudos all on some excellent sleuthing! But had to jump in and post re: DG Intelligence/ADHD/drug lab
I have severe ADHD and have read a lot about it so I think I can shed some light on a few things:
Stimulant drugs effect people with ADHD VERY differently to non-ADHD people. Ex: caffeine has no effect, I can drink a pot of espresso and go to bed. When I was in university, I had classmates who would take Adderall to let them stay up all night and study, etc. that doesn't work if you have ADHD, Adderall, etc will just help tone down the distractions and make it easier to focus at closer to a degree that non-ADHD people would experience on a daily basis.
Medication can help to manage ADHD symptoms but it in no way erases them. Think of it as having a brain that is like an out of control Ferrari,it jumps around constantly,makes wild turns, etc. medication can just put you in the drivers seat of the out of control Ferrari, it doesn't change much else.
Which is one of the reasons why the more severe the ADHD, the more likely the person will have bouts, sometimes long ones of feeling completely overwhelmed. When this happens, it has a sort if freezing effect. Similar to standing at a fork in the road and being clueless which way to go and becoming sort of immobilized as a result.
ADHD and intellect tend to go hand in hand--usual people with ADHD rank in the top 5% of the population intelligence wise. This is actually a major negative because there is a huge shame factor associated with asking for help when the thought is that if you're so smart you should be able to handle it.
ADHD causes major impulsiveness. As a result people with ADHD constantly self check and often over self check. This also sort of explains the loner thing to me because constant self checking can make it difficult to let people close enough to build meaningful relationships and with ADHD you wind up so lost in thought so much of the time that it's hard to resist spending hours alone thinking things out.
Where I'm confused is if DG was circling the L's area in his truck,that rules out an impulsive act because the extra circles would very likely kick in a self check thought along the lines of "wait a minute, what am I doing?"
If this was not an impulsive act, same difference. People with ADHD cannot handle repetitive activities such as circling a block without automatically self checking, zoning out, loosing interest, forgetting what they're doing.
Ex: I had to pick up a friend recently, couldn't find the address on my first drive down the street,turned around at the end of the block and drove back and missed the address again but this time I missed it because I had already been down the block, it wasn't new/interesting to me anymore and I forgot to look for it. I drove up and down several times and tried everything I could think to try to persuade myself to focus on finding the address before giving up, calling my friend to come meet me where I'd stopped. Totally embarrassing, it may seem like a total idiot move and it was but point is that's typical ADHD.
Other thing is DG seems like an absolute science nerd. I think it's a major stretch to think he went from cooking up amphetamines to triple kidnap/possible murder. Even the prior charges for possessing a weapon can be pretty easily explained given a) he lives on a fRm and may have wanted it to protect against wild animals and/or b) he may have wanted it for protection given who he may encounter cooking up drugs.
D
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YOU ARE VERY ASTUTE and spot on.
Not sure what "Basic" means. However, I went back to #840.
Bank card and Credit card are two completely different things.
When you open a bank account you sign a document stating all the information you are providing the bank (about you) is true. If POI used a false identity to open the account and used the name of the stolen identity, then he has "unlawfully" represented himself and thus "unlawfully obtained a bank card" with which to access funds, i.e., deposit/withdraw from account.
POI could have easily received a transfer of funds (i.e., via his email) and deposited the funds into his account for any reason. One thing about the www... it leaves a contrail that you cannot erase.
We have used this method of transferring funds to place a deposit on a camper trailer in the past. Easy peasie (and stealth!).
Thanks for sharing what it is to have ADHD. I'm curiuos. What happens when someone is on a mission. For example, suppose someone becomes fixated on an unpaid debt and works themselves into a kind of determined focus of getting that money back? Would there be a careful plan, a determined strategy, with one trip to get the money or harm to person, a second to clean up, would that make sense? Would there be any sense of "wait, there's a little boy here, I have to abort the plan", or would there be a sense of determination at all cost?
I noticed that too! Does,anyone know if their pictures are close-ups taken from other pictures?
Missywatson
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I think an opportunity to get to Al was pre-meditated but depends on motive. If it's someone who is anti-social, they would not want a confrontation with ppl around. I suspect something escalated and snowballed. If mental stability and impulsiveness are in the POI's history, you can see how stress would affect decision-making.
If it's more sinister then it could be a cat and mouse scenario and cops need something to crack him. Some bit of evidence.
If it's more sinister then it could be a cat and mouse scenario and cops need something to crack him. Some bit of evidence.
If Garland was involved, then I'm of the opinion that this is now a cat and mouse game for Garland.
OutOfTheDarkness
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That is a very interesting look inside ADHD. Thanks for posting it, and welcome!
It's tough to make sweeping generalizations though, based on your personal experiences. For example, if there was intent to go harm, kill, or kidnap someone, I find it hard to believe they would simply lose interest because they had to wait, or circle the block a couple of times. Perhaps that just ads to the agitation required to go through with it.
As a side note, there has not been any definitive pattern, sighting times, or frequency released regarding the mystery truck to my knowledge.
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