Deceased/Not Found Canada - Alvin, 66, & Kathy Liknes, 53, Nathan O'Brien, 5, Calgary, 30 June 2014 - #7

[dotr]

Do we have a specific time frame for when Alvin was at his office clearing it out that fateful weekend?

http://news.nationalpost.com/2014/0...in-bid-to-find-him-his-wife-and-his-grandson/

"CALGARY — The former head office of Winter Petroleum Ltd. sits on the second floor of a Calgary strip mall: the office is now dark, the desks barren, the door locked.

This was apparently Alvin Liknes’ company. The property manager said she often saw Mr. Liknes around the building: he was a good man, she said, and the company always paid its rent on time.

The space was cleared out sometime around June 29 — on the same weekend Mr. Liknes disappeared from his home, along with his wife, Kathryn, and five-year-old grandson, Nathan O’Brien, according to the property manager."

bbm.

 

[curio2009]

Alvin & Kathryn Liknes were actually moving to Mexico for an unspecified time after which they intended to take up residence in the new home they bought in Edmonton.

Please read the early coverage in the Calgary newspapers or on the CTV.ca/calgary homepage.

 

[Menci]

Amber Alert: Brother says search for missing Calgary trio has gone ‘really quiet’

From the above linked report (dark blue font):

'Randy Prevost, Kathryn’s brother, said he was hopeful about the direction police were taking their investigation early on, but he’s now been left largely in the dark.

“Lately, it’s been really quiet. I haven’t heard a thing that’s changed,......”'

'........There were still signs that something was amiss, however, as chalk had been used to circle several stains on the front driveway and a blue residue was left on the door where it appeared forensic teams had dusted for fingerprints.'

'Prevost said the Likneses had been planning to move to a condo in Mexico for a year and would then return to live in Evansburg, Alta.
“They were investing in cheaper property so they could enjoy the rest of their lives,” he said. “I am sure they were just trying to protect themselves with the money they did have.”'

(Notice here KL's brother said the L's planned to move to Mexico for a year, while most accounts I've read said it's for 6 months.)

The following also drew my attention from this article:

Prevost said the Likneses had been planning to move to a condo in Mexico for a year and would then return to live in Evansburg, Alta.
“They were investing in cheaper property so they could enjoy the rest of their lives,” he said. “I am sure they were just trying to protect themselves with the money they did have.”

Prevost said he didn’t generally talk money with his sister or her husband, but he didn’t believe the pair to be in financial trouble.

Garland, meanwhile, was released on $750 bail Friday after spending time behind bars on unrelated identity-theft charges. Prevost said it was a “heartbreaker” to know he’d been set free. He, personally, has never met Garland, but confirmed Garland’s sister was in a relationship with one of Alvin’s sons. (For more on Garland’s bail conditions, click here).

Prevost added, “We’re really not finding out anything about this guy that provides potential answers as to what’s going on.”

 

[gardenia]

If your business files for bankruptcy then isn't all of the furniture/contents seized to be sold off to pay creditors? If so, then what's left to "clear out"? And furthermore, could an altercation have occurred at the office while he was clearing it out - legally or not? And could that have been 'followed up' later that night at their residence?

 

[deugirtni]

Yes, and the bosma case too.. but boy, when the body(ies) are found on the suspect's own property, MAN is he BUSTED! I just can't believe people can be that stupid. (On second thought, yes I can!)

But Willie Pickton had remains on his own farm. Sometimes people just don't think they'll get caught.

 

[Carli]

http://news.nationalpost.com/2014/0...in-bid-to-find-him-his-wife-and-his-grandson/

"CALGARY — The former head office of Winter Petroleum Ltd. sits on the second floor of a Calgary strip mall: the office is now dark, the desks barren, the door locked.

...

bbm.

...

Completely OT, but honestly, lazy reportage like this makes me crazy. What's a "barren" desk? Is it a desk unable to give birth to little baby desks? Did the writer mean "empty" or "abandoned" or "vacant"? Grrr. When I see stuff like this it makes me doubt the whole story and I don't think I'm alone in that assumption. IMO. MOO.

 

[lucipurr]

I know personal bankruptcy you can keep up to $4000 personal furniture/appliances so I assume there must be something like that for business bankruptcy. A huge myth associated with bankruptcy is that you lose EVERYTHING. The Canadian government isn't monsters, they still want you to be able to live, you can keep your car (up to a certain amount), clothes, furniture, tools if it's to make a living, plenty of things.

 

[Labrahma]

It's a horrible thought, but I wonder if the police have considered that NO may be the impetus for the crime? His gregarious personality, and talking to visitors at the estate sale, could have attracted the attention of an unsavory visitor to the house, or his several trips that day to the playground, where this person could also have been lurking. Perhaps him staying overnight was overheard during the estate sale and the perpetrator waited until everyone was asleep? The grandparents could have come to NO's defense and gotten injured in the process. Have LE checked to see if there are any sex offenders in the area? I hate this theory, and am sickened by the thought, but what if the green truck and DG are red herrings?

This is way out in left field, but, perhaps the grandparents accidentally "hurt" Nathan, therefore, took him and left.

Half of me believes they left willingly, and half of me does not. I'm sorry I do not have any facts to back this up, just a theory.

I have a question: Were the Liknes' vehicles left at the home? TIA.

 

[Carli]

Yes, and the bosma case too.. but boy, when the body(ies) are found on the suspect's own property, MAN is he BUSTED! I just can't believe people can be that stupid. (On second thought, yes I can!)

I don't think there's been a trial yet in the Bosma case yet, has there? Probably it's just a bit too early to make presumptions about who, what or how circumstantial evidence was, or was not, found on a suspect's property. MOO. JMHO.

 

[ResearchQuest]

...

Completely OT, but honestly, lazy reportage like this makes me crazy. What's a "barren" desk? Is it a desk unable to give birth to little baby desks? Did the writer mean "empty" or "abandoned" or "vacant"? Grrr. When I see stuff like this it makes me doubt the whole story and I don't think I'm alone in that assumption. IMO. MOO.

And wouldn't all the desks be gone, sold to pay for the bankruptcy? Unless they were part of the lease.

 

[Labrahma]

I agree. They sound ignorant and like they're phoning it in.

QUOTE=Carli;10746006]...

Completely OT, but honestly, lazy reportage like this makes me crazy. What's a "barren" desk? Is it a desk unable to give birth to little baby desks? Did the writer mean "empty" or "abandoned" or "vacant"? Grrr. When I see stuff like this it makes me doubt the whole story and I don't think I'm alone in that assumption. IMO. MOO.[/QUOTE]

 

[OutOfTheDarkness]

I think that what went down was supposed to go down minus NO and minus "medical distress". I am thinking the motive has to do with the finances. MOO

If the green truck is actually the involved in this, I don't see a lot of careful planning. You would have to speculate there was then no casing of the neighborhood for cameras, and the perp brought an open box truck to transport 2 bodies. The amount of potential blood evidence left behind also suggests a crime of passion is more likely. The time of whatever happened suggests the perp wanted privacy, so there may have been some intent to intimidate (as someone said) or be physical, but late evening in a quiet neighborhood would require a plan to keep it very quiet. Whatever happened seems more a case of panic to keep it quiet.

Or I could be completely wrong...

 

[Annie1004]

I don't think there's been a trial yet in the Bosma case yet, has there? Probably it's just a bit too early to make presumptions about who, what or how circumstantial evidence was, or was not, found on a suspect's property. MOO. JMHO.

I believe Tim Bosma's remains were found on Millard's property, among other incriminating (i.e., not circumstantial) evidence. Millard has also been charged with the murder of his own father and a friend. I have no doubt the Crown has everything it needs for a successful prosecution. That case is one of the most disturbing I have ever followed, but lost interest when a number of WS posters thought Millard was innocent, framed or being railroaded... at least in the beginning. IMHO.

Fortunately, WS is for sleuthing and discussion; not held to the higher legal presumptions as with a jury.

 

[OutOfTheDarkness]

It's a horrible thought, but I wonder if the police have considered that NO may be the impetus for the crime? His gregarious personality, and talking to visitors at the estate sale, could have attracted the attention of an unsavory visitor to the house, or his several trips that day to the playground, where this person could also have been lurking. Perhaps him staying overnight was overheard during the estate sale and the perpetrator waited until everyone was asleep? The grandparents could have come to NO's defense and gotten injured in the process. Have LE checked to see if there are any sex offenders in the area? I hate this theory, and am sickened by the thought, but what if the green truck and DG are red herrings?

It is rare for a child abduction to include adults. You are taking a whole lot of risk assuming the plans didn't change between the time you overheard the plans, and the actual sleepover. Given the age differences, there would be no reason to assume NO lived there if everyone knew it was the grandparent's estate sale. No forced entry suggests the perp was let in. If the perp knocked on the door, then they would know full well they would have do deal with the adults. It's not impossible... But unlikely that's what happened. Not that it's any great relief.

 

[cathdawg]

And wouldn't all the desks be gone, sold to pay for the bankruptcy? Unless they were part of the lease.

It was a limited company one of the reasons people set up companies is to limit their liability,

 

[ResearchQuest]

It was a limited company one of the reasons people set up companies is to limit their liability,

LOL, yes, I realize that, but if the desks were owned by the landlord, then they would have remained on site. Sometimes people rent furnished offices.

 

[OutOfTheDarkness]

I think that what went down was supposed to go down minus NO and minus "medical distress". I am thinking the motive has to do with the finances. MOO

If the green truck is actually involved in this, I don't see a lot of careful planning. You would have to speculate there was then no casing of the neighborhood for cameras, and the perp brought an open box truck to transport 2 bodies. The amount of potential blood evidence left behind also suggests a crime of passion is more likely. The time of whatever happened suggests the perp wanted privacy, so there may have been some intent to intimidate (as someone said) or be physical, but late evening in a quiet neighborhood would require a plan to keep it very quiet. Whatever happened seems more a case of panic to keep it quiet.

Or I could be completely wrong...

 

[OutOfTheDarkness]

What if it was someone who attended the estate sale during the day to scope things out, and of course, encountered both Nathan, his mother, JO, and KL? Don't forget how well-advertised the sale was (even at the casino), and that they called it an "estate sale", as opposed to a garage sale. Then they (I'm thinking more than one person here for some reason) returned in the later evening for the days' proceeds? Something physical transpired - I still believe it was with grandpa rather than grandma; grandpa ended up getting hurt badly, but it was not planned, but happened. Perps have a bigger problem on their hands with lots of blood, and the possibility they may now have committed murder. There's no real indication how much Al was involved in the estate sale that day, although yes, one would assume he may have been on hand to help with the moving of any large pieces of furniture that got sold. To avoid being recognized, maybe they were disguised or masked upon their return? What if the doors to the house were still open? The sign on the front door was still up, right? If AL got involved in any struggle, perhaps the masks came off? Then both KL and possibly NO would be able to recognize the person from earlier in the day. Thus everybody was removed and taken in a state of panic. NO wouldn't be released even later, because he could tell his mom, JO, he had seen them earlier when she was still there helping with the sale, and help with their identification.

Unfortunately, that is completely plausible given all the information currently public. If LE doesn't have any concrete evidence yet, it's a possibility they have to consider. There was a discussion of tunnel vision earlier, and your scenario is why LE has to follow the evidence, as well as being very careful about what they say and release.

 

[braided_belle]

http://news.nationalpost.com/2014/0...in-bid-to-find-him-his-wife-and-his-grandson/

"CALGARY — The former head office of Winter Petroleum Ltd. sits on the second floor of a Calgary strip mall: the office is now dark, the desks barren, the door locked.

This was apparently Alvin Liknes’ company. The property manager said she often saw Mr. Liknes around the building: he was a good man, she said, and the company always paid its rent on time.

The space was cleared out sometime around June 29 — on the same weekend Mr. Liknes disappeared from his home, along with his wife, Kathryn, and five-year-old grandson, Nathan O’Brien, according to the property manager."

bbm.

I noticed that the article linked above says, "Although Mr. Liknes was not listed as a director for Winter Petroleum..."

AL was not a director, that means he held no ownership of the company. The Directors of the company would be available through a corporate search, available from any Alberta Registry Agent for about $13. Has the company been struck from the register? We don't know if their intellectual or physical property was bought by another O&G company, or what happened... We also don't know if the reported debts are still outstanding or have been addressed. Since it was an incorporated company, any shareholders would have limited liability. Even if AL held some shares, because he wasn't a Director the closure of Winter Petroleum Ltd. would have no additional bearing on him.. other than being out of a job like everyone else. He wouldn't be responsible or liable for any of the debt incurred by the company.

 

[ztzt]

LE told us about these but has yet to tell us any results or relevance:

1. The stains/drag marks on the driveway of the house

2. "Flammable and dangerous chemicals" found at DG's farm (they seem to already know they were "flammable and dangerous")

3. The abandoned black SUV stuck in the mud

Hope to hear from them again about at least one of these...