Deceased/Not Found Canada - Alvin, 66, & Kathy Liknes, 53, Nathan O'Brien, 5, Calgary, 30 June 2014 - #8

[xheraldina]

Hello, new person here. Not sure if this belongs in this forum but was looking for potential sites that these folks could have been taken.

Coincidentally an interface forest fire was 650 Ha west of Grand Prairie AB on July 8th. Cause was listed as lightning - Probably not related but still a fact: http://bcwildfire.com/hprScripts/WildfireNews/OneFire.asp?ID=493 - http://bcwildfire.com/hprScripts/WildfireNews/DisplayArticle.asp?ID=2146

Also, looked into Winter Petroleum a bit and they had gas properties in a 2011 article between Rainbow Lake and High Level AB. Seems awfully far for a murderer to drive to dispose of bodies but plausable.

Also, looked into Paramount petroleum and found this PDF that shows their properties on Page 4: eshttp://www.paramountres.com/upload/...ources-ltd-corporate-prentation-june-2014.pdf

I sincerely hope the CPD can find these individuals and that the public and private companies perform a thorough search of anywhere on their property for them.

He had their shirt with logo, but that could be a coincidence. Still should be looked at!

http://images.scribblelive.com/2014/7/15/04098e19-1d92-471c-b3ac-167a239a3081_500.jpg
BBM

 

[sublimemumma]

I don't want to believe that to be true because that means that Nathan would have seen his grandparents dead and he would have been the only one not killed in their sleep and that makes it harder to bear.

The drag marks and DNA inside still doesn't prove that they are dead, just injured though? I didn't think about what Daniela40 typed. That's unimaginable.

I believe at first when they released the info that there was evidence that violence occurred in the house, they said that one person was believed to be in medical distress when they were taken against their will. I am still under the believe that only one was killed in the house but they have not released much info about the results on their findings from the L home. I know I am a but behind, since I am only trying to catch up today on all of the posts from yesterday.

I have had a very sick feeling over this whole thing... (I was actually in Airdrie, 45 min from my hometown)when I heard the news that there had been an arrest made and there would be first and second degree charges laid later that day. It was just yesterday morning that Ihad read an interview with little Nathan's uncle saying that the police had, up until the last 24 hours, been keeping them updated and things had gone rather quiet lately. They weren't givingup hope to the three family members being found soon. It was kind of surprising to go from this to the police releasing that they have enough evidence to conclude that the three were nolonger alive but they were still looking for the bodies.

 

[otto]

I have a feeling he drove for at least an hour to get rid of the bodies. Airdrie is about 35 minutes north of the initial crime scene. North is the most common direction murders move to dump bodies or to kill an abducted victim, in my opinion. I think LE should look North of Airdrie, another 30 minutes north of his family home. JMO

If we knew the times that the truck was seen near the crime scene, we would know how much time was between his trips (one for the murder, one for the clean up). Then we could map out the radius in terms of travel time. In fact, since police focused on the Airdrie acreage, I think we can assume that there were at least 1.5 hours between the two sightings, and perhaps more. Suppose the murder was at 11PM, body removal until 11:30, body disposal, return to the crime scene, clean up, leave for the last time around 4AM. I'll try to map a radius map in terms of time/mileage from crime scene so we can estimate where the bodies might be ... in a couple of hours.

 

[garbagetweet]

If we knew the times that the truck was seen near the crime scene, we would know how much time was between his trips (one for the murder, one for the clean up). Then were could map out the radius in terms of travel time. In fact, since police focused on the Airdrie acreage, I think we can assume that there were at least 1.5 hours between the two sightings, and perhaps more. Suppose the murder was at 11PM, body removal until 11:30, body disposal, return to the crime scene, clean up, leave for the last time around 4AM. I'll try to map a radius map in terms of time/mileage from crime scene so we can estimate where the bodies might be ... in a couple of hours.

But you are assuming that disposal was immediate and that there was no temporary storage. It is possible that the victims (in either a living or deceased state) were moved from the home to a second location (possibly the Airdrie acreage) before finally being dumped in a final location over the subsequent two or three days.

 

[Cherchri]

Just a thought. Perhaps he did only murder one person and LE has charged him with 3 murders to smoke him out? Yes wishful thinking but it could be a tactic.....

Oh gosh Alison it would be wonderful if you were right. Sadly, I don't think that's the case but I've allowed myself the same course of wishful thinking. Over and over again.

 

[2Hope4]

Not sure why some believe there were multiple trips to remove the bodies. IMO, all bodies could have been removed at the same time in one trip. Wrapped in tarps, garbage bags, rugs, comforter, etc., and on the bed of the truck, doubtful anyone would have noticed.

I wonder if there are places that people dump their mattresses, garbage, etc into ravens rather than the landfills?? It's a sad fact, but I know when we drive around country roads, often there will be 'dump sites' on the side of the road. All types of furniture, appliances, etc. I honestly have no idea why it isn't taken to the landfill, but I know we see it. If an area like that exists near where Garland lived, it might be worth LE looking into.

 

[PrincessButtercup]

We do have traffic cameras on many of the lights along major routes in Calgary ... it just occurred to me that LE may have used this to determine their search areas to an extent. It seems that they have done the most work at the Spyhill landfill, there could have been several spots along the way where he could have been spotted by the cameras depending on the route. Just a thought ....

 

[BabaJ]

If we knew the times that the truck was seen near the crime scene, we would know how much time was between his trips (one for the murder, one for the clean up). Then we could map out the radius in terms of travel time. In fact, since police focused on the Airdrie acreage, I think we can assume that there were at least 1.5 hours between the two sightings, and perhaps more. Suppose the murder was at 11PM, body removal until 11:30, body disposal, return to the crime scene, clean up, leave for the last time around 4AM. I'll try to map a radius map in terms of time/mileage from crime scene so we can estimate where the bodies might be ... in a couple of hours.

This makes a lot of sense assuming he disposed of the bodies the same night. I also believe that the truck could have been caught on other cameras within the City and the police has fairly good knowledge of his movement within the City limits.

 

[P2L]

Hi Everyone - This is my first post.

I read about this forum in the Calgary Herald a few days ago. As a parent, I am devastated for Nathan's family, and as a Calgarian, I am sickened that this horrible crime happened in our city.

I have to commend you on Websleuths - the quality of the posts is excellent, and I am so relieved to see that everyone keeps the victim blaming and the wild speculation in check. You can tell that the majority of posters here have a great deal of respect for the Liknes and O'Brien families, as well as for the investigative and legal process.

Many have asked what type of person could kill a child. IMO, the person that committed these crimes is likely a psychopath/sociopath. Although this diagnosis is rare, these people do not have empathy, in fact the only emotion they seem capable of is rage. They are often manipulative and charming, but most of them are loners because they can't form normal relationships. Only 1-5% of the general population are psychopaths, but it is estimated that 25% of convicted criminals possess psychopathic traits. They are cold, calculating planners.

JMO, but if you watch DG's "perp walk", he seems quite calm, and as others have pointed out, angry. Guilty or innocent, most people in that situation would exhibit a high level of anxiety, especially if they had just been charged with 3 counts of murder. His eyes are downcast, but he doesn't look ashamed.

2 good books on psychopaths/sociopaths: Without Conscience by Robert D. Hare and The Psychopath Test by Jon Ronson

Thanks

 

[2Hope4]

WOW, just had another thought, wonder if the beds were sold? Were the mattresses and boxsprings given with the beds, or were all still at the home after the sale? If either are missing now, that could have been the cover on the bed of the truck. IMO, most wouldn't think twice about seeing a truck with a mattress or boxspring on the back. Most would just assume someone was moving, or taking stuff to the dump!!

 

[ztzt]

It is possible that the victims (in either a living or deceased state) were moved from the home to a second location (possibly the Airdrie acreage) before finally being dumped in a final location over the subsequent two or three days.

This is possible, given the chemicals found at his acreage.

 

[matou]

He could have stopped for gas somewhere and/or a car wash too. There would be cameras. Likely paid in cash. JMO

 

[Cherchri]

Hi Everyone - This is my first post.

I read about this forum in the Calgary Herald a few days ago. As a parent, I am devastated for Nathan's family, and as a Calgarian, I am sickened that this horrible crime happened in our city.

I have to commend you on Websleuths - the quality of the posts is excellent, and I am so relieved to see that everyone keeps the victim blaming and the wild speculation in check. You can tell that the majority of posters here have a great deal of respect for the Liknes and O'Brien families, as well as for the investigative and legal process.

Many have asked what type of person could kill a child. IMO, the person that committed these crimes is likely a psychopath/sociopath. Although this diagnosis is rare, these people do not have empathy, in fact the only emotion they seem capable of is rage. They are often manipulative and charming, but most of them are loners because they can't form normal relationships. Only 1-5% of the general population are psychopaths, but it is estimated that 25% of convicted criminals possess psychopathic traits. They are cold, calculating planners.

JMO, but if you watch DG's "perp walk", he seems quite calm, and as others have pointed out, angry. Guilty or innocent, most people in that situation would exhibit a high level of anxiety, especially if they had just been charged with 3 counts of murder. His eyes are downcast, but he doesn't look ashamed.

2 good books on psychopaths/sociopaths: Without Conscience by Robert D. Hare and The Psychopath Test by Jon Ronson

Thanks

Welcome to websleuths!

 

[Sillybilly]

When the farm was raided back in 1992 and evidence was also found at a rented facility in Crossfield, it seems DG maintained at least some things separate and apart from his parents home (not sure why, as the farm looks plenty big enough, so maybe that evidence that was stored away from the farm was dangerous or more incriminating?). Just wondering if the same might apply here. Crossfield is 54.5 km / 39 mins from the crime scene, and Airdrie is about half way. He could have gone to the farm on 291 for whatever reasons, then headed up the back roads on 292 towards Crossfield.

 

[voominvava]

I keep thinking about the poster who was on the scene at the farm, the first day they were searching. Who overheard a neighbour saying they saw garbage burning on the Garland farm in the middle of the night, and the greenhouse light on.... If this is true, it is even more disturbing now.

 

[sublimemumma]

But you are assuming that disposal was immediate and that there was no temporary storage. It is possible that the victims (in either a living or deceased state) were moved from the home to a second location (possibly the Airdrie acreage) before finally being dumped in a final location over the subsequent two or three days.

so what as lead them to be searching the landfill?

 

[sublimemumma]

Hi Everyone - This is my first post.

I read about this forum in the Calgary Herald a few days ago. As a parent, I am devastated for Nathan's family, and as a Calgarian, I am sickened that this horrible crime happened in our city.

I have to commend you on Websleuths - the quality of the posts is excellent, and I am so relieved to see that everyone keeps the victim blaming and the wild speculation in check. You can tell that the majority of posters here have a great deal of respect for the Liknes and O'Brien families, as well as for the investigative and legal process.

Many have asked what type of person could kill a child. IMO, the person that committed these crimes is likely a psychopath/sociopath. Although this diagnosis is rare, these people do not have empathy, in fact the only emotion they seem capable of is rage. They are often manipulative and charming, but most of them are loners because they can't form normal relationships. Only 1-5% of the general population are psychopaths, but it is estimated that 25% of convicted criminals possess psychopathic traits. They are cold, calculating planners.

JMO, but if you watch DG's "perp walk", he seems quite calm, and as others have pointed out, angry. Guilty or innocent, most people in that situation would exhibit a high level of anxiety, especially if they had just been charged with 3 counts of murder. His eyes are downcast, but he doesn't look ashamed.

2 good books on psychopaths/sociopaths: Without Conscience by Robert D. Hare and The Psychopath Test by Jon Ronson

Thanks

I was also thinking the same thing when I watched him being lead in handcuffs on live TV. He seemed way to calm, like as if he wasn't worried at all...

 

[Wondergirl]

If we knew the times that the truck was seen near the crime scene, we would know how much time was between his trips (one for the murder, one for the clean up). Then we could map out the radius in terms of travel time. In fact, since police focused on the Airdrie acreage, I think we can assume that there were at least 1.5 hours between the two sightings, and perhaps more. Suppose the murder was at 11PM, body removal until 11:30, body disposal, return to the crime scene, clean up, leave for the last time around 4AM. I'll try to map a radius map in terms of time/mileage from crime scene so we can estimate where the bodies might be ... in a couple of hours.

May be useful, but, the truck was photographed at some point in daylight

Jmo

 

[Menci]

We do have traffic cameras on many of the lights along major routes in Calgary ... it just occurred to me that LE may have used this to determine their search areas to an extent. It seems that they have done the most work at the Spyhill landfill, there could have been several spots along the way where he could have been spotted by the cameras depending on the route. Just a thought ....

I came across this site the other day, but didn't post it. Depending on time of day, it may be hard for anyone, including LE to determine if the suspect's truck travelled on any of these routes and was captured on camera. One can only hope.

http://www.amaroadreports.ca/highways/2

 

[garbagetweet]

so what as lead them to be searching the landfill?

Standard procedure.