Deceased/Not Found Canada - Alvin, 66, & Kathy Liknes, 53, Nathan O'Brien, 5, Calgary, 30 June 2014 - #8

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I read this in the Toronto Sun this morning? Apologies if this has already been posted. I'm confused, does anyone know what this means?

"There (were) three people missing on Day 1," he said.

"We have to assume ... that someone, somewhere, was keeping one of those people alive ............
(more to read in link)

http://www.torontosun.com/2014/07/1...calgary-familys-disappearance-back-in-custody

Yes, thank-you. I quoted something similar during the presser and I am still catching up on all the videos since yesterday.

Given the 2ND degree charge of murder, the wording by LE and the continued use of the Amber Alert for 2 weeks, it is my opinion, that Nathan walked out of that home that night and LE knows it.

My heart fears that is what happened, and I say fear because I think of what may have occurred after that. Another small piece of me gone, thinking about that precious, innocent boy and what he went through.

JMO
 
He had a court appointed lawyer, for the ID theft. In addition this lawyer does work under Legal Aid. He is a top notch lawyer, and has handled some high profile cases.. I did notice that this lawyer stressed that he is representing his client only the ID theft charge.

So, this tells me that the tax payer will be stuck with the bill for the three murders of which Garland has been charged with.

I also noticed his T Shirt Logo. Wonder where he got it? This company is Calgary based - oil and gas is their speciality.

I wonder which charge will come before the courts first? - the ID theft, or the murder charges.

Which charge do you think will be taken on first?

BBM And, the taxpayer will be paying to keep him in prison, probably for the rest of his life. (25 years each on two first degree murder charges alone).
 
New here, I reside in Airdrie...close to the acreage. I can say there is so much searching going on in the acreage area. It is an area that is huge in size, treed, and covered with long grass/crops. Not to mention there is an enormous feed lot near there, oil well sites, marshes, and rock piles in the vicinity. I was out walking on back roads yesterday evening in hopes of finding anything out of the ordinary...it was just overwhelming. The sheer magnitude of the areas being discussed as search zones is way too much for LE to search alone. IMO, LE maybe has enough evidence to convict DG on what they already have? Finding bodies ( or remains ) would be for the benefit of the families at this point. So perhaps LE isn't overly concerned about contamination of evidence now.
 
IMO I think this is foolish. I don't believe that civilians should be out and about traipsing in and around Airdrie looking for bodies. There's more to evidence collection and looking for bodies than just looking around willy-nilly. What if any of them come across something pertinent and it's not handled correctly and it jeopardizes the case? DG's lawyer would just love that, I'm sure. Big thumbs down for this idea.

But the Calgary police have already asked the general public to look around their own properties, I think this is just an extension of that idea. LE has not recommended against this type of search, the group has communicated with them and given them direction and guidelines. They aren't searching private properties but are handing out flyers to rural property owners reiterating the request from Chief Hanson.
 
A totally insignificant point but I wonder how he got clothes and personal items. He couldn't go back home .... do the police do that?

Usually your Lawyer helps you out, or his Assistant. I worked in a law firm and we called cabs, arranged pick ups, bought overnight stuff. Someone at the law firm went out and either bought him clothes or his parents put a bag together form him, etc. His lawyer probably had him driven to the hotel and got him organized.
 
The decision to lay charges was made on Sunday (per press conference with police chief). On Sunday evening, the suspect was arrested near his home at 1:30AM. The decision was made prior to his trek to his acreage.

BBM This is interesting Otto - I missed that. Hmm....
 
New here, I reside in Airdrie...close to the acreage. I can say there is so much searching going on in the acreage area. It is an area that is huge in size, treed, and covered with long grass/crops. Not to mention there is an enormous feed lot near there, oil well sites, marshes, and rock piles in the vicinity. I was out walking on back roads yesterday evening in hopes of finding anything out of the ordinary...it was just overwhelming. The sheer magnitude of the areas being discussed as search zones is way too much for LE to search alone. IMO, LE maybe has enough evidence to convict DG on what they already have? Finding bodies ( or remains ) would be for the benefit of the families at this point. So perhaps LE isn't overly concerned about contamination of evidence now.

Welcome Kam
 
But you are assuming that disposal was immediate and that there was no temporary storage. It is possible that the victims (in either a living or deceased state) were moved from the home to a second location (possibly the Airdrie acreage) before finally being dumped in a final location over the subsequent two or three days.

I've thought the same thing.

I am convinced that the cadaver dog got "hits" at the Airdrie acreage. That tells me that bodies were there at some point.

Just my opinion, but I think the fact that he had 3 people to deal with may have derailed some of his plans. He killed a child and that wasn't in the plan. He was unprepared for a child to be part of the mix. He made his decision quickly but it caused him a dilemma. It changed his very well thought out plans. My guess is that all the bodies came back to the farm and he had to think on things a bit. He may actually have been upset about the child or pissed off that his plans went awry. Whatever he was thinking, he may have become overwhelmed and had to "take a break" to get his thinking back on track.

Once he calmed himself, as much as he could, he moved the bodies and disposed of evidence. Some of that evidence I believe ended up in the landfill.

I think he came back and in a panic just started burning stuff; whatever he thought could pose a problem for him.

I am convinced that the bodies were at the acreage at some point or another because of the cadaver dogs, the burning of "garbage" and his affinity for the property. He seems to be incredibly attached to this place. The one place he was NOT permitted to go to was the one place he tried to get to. Unreal.

I think that property is extremely important to him in a way that we would never understand. It provides a safe haven for him and has for years. It represents something to him. He always comes back to the farm. The bodies were there at one point. Of this I am certain.
 
Would they find DNA evidences after that long? Or just the matter in witch they were killed?

DNA can last forever if stored properly. I don't think we know how they were murdered, because no bodies have been found.

:welcome: naz
 
I am just trying to figure out Douglas Garland's bio, because often past actions predict future events.

It was claimed he attended one year of medical school. However, in Canada, to apply to medical school, you need to already have a previous degree. What is that degree in? Or was this "one year of medical school" just another lie?. It is also possible the "traumatic accident where he fell asleep behind the wheel" is also made up.

1960: born (or at least, he's 54 in 2014) Did he grow up on the farm? What kind of a farm is it? Ranch? Cattle? Vegetables? Animal production? Other?
1978: graduated from HS? maybe, or?
1979-1992: 12 years, what did he do during this time? University? Where? More crimes? Past associates?
1992: Alberta, Garland was charged for producing his own amphetamines and was arrested at his parents' farm
1992: He skipped town and moved to for Vancouver and assumed the name of a dead person: Matthew Kemper Hartley
1993: He applied for a SIN under this assumed name, also got a DL
1994-1997: worked at Can Test Ltd, as MKH (claimed he had B.Sc, he later said he figured one year of 'medical school' = B.Sc in his mind)
1997: At Can Test Ltd. was coordinator in the company's trace organics department, testing pesticides, herbicides and organic compounds
1997: Supervised 30 people at Can Test, suffered "nervous breakdown" and was dismissed
1997: Got EI in the name of MKH
1999: Garland worked at BCIT on a part-time basis, as MKH
1999-2000: arrested and plead guilty to drug and identity theft charges, served 39 months in federal prison
2003: After a few years of wrangling with Human Resources Development Canada (HRDC), he was deemed ineligible for past EI
2005: Went to court, acting in his own defense, using ADHD which 'contributed to muddled thinking' and had led him to make 'some not very well thought out decision, won the court case.
2006-2014? What was he doing during this time, and where? Using his scientific background? For what? With whom? How did he get money?

All information came from here:
http://globalnews.ca/news/1449500/person-of-interest-in-missing-family-case-re-arrested/

and here:
http://globalnews.ca/news/1451758/who-is-calgary-triple-murder-suspect-douglas-garland/

Looking at what we know from the background information on Douglas Garland, we see an intelligent, crafty man, who makes up stories and lies to suit himself and his goals. He has a scientific background, and is comfortable in laboratories and with chemicals. He has knowledge of farm work, and the duties and activities that goes along with that.

He has long periods of time where he is extremely stable, and able to hold down responsible jobs. He also has impulsive behaviors that he blames on "ADHD" or "muddled thinking" or having been involved in an accident where he "fell asleep at the wheel." These are his statements, no proof has been offered of them. In fact, they are probably lies, as well.

As far as we know, the only time he ever left his comfort zone of his Alberta home and neighbourhood, was when he was under risk of arrest in 1992. He showed a surprising ability to think on his feet, plan, and evade capture for 7 years. He also is bold and has no shame when it comes to his lies. He is a convincing and long-term liar, he can keep up appearances for years.

He can convince reputable people (BCIT, Can Test, and the judge in 2005 to believe his stories, because in the latter case, DG's tales of ADHD and trauma were taken at face value and repeated in the judgement as though they were fact) to give him credence. Let's see what happens this time.

He has no past history of violence that we know of. But his previous patterns match this case. He planned his activities for a long time. He may have had involvement, whether it be working using his scientific knowledge for one of AL's firms, or whether he lent AL money (did DG have money, probably not), once again, like in 1992, a crisis came to the forefront, but instead of taking someone's identity, he took their lives.

I write all of this just to clarify my own thoughts.

Future? We don't know. But it is certain he will lie again.

Any corrections welcome, and I hope this post is suitable to the moderators of WS. I purposely did not discuss what I believe DG on the night of June 30.

All JMVHO. (Just My Very Humble Opinion)
 
Just to clarify a bit, "assault" doesn't necessarily mean he was physical against someone before; "assault" can also mean that he caused someone to believe that he would cause them physical harm, or that he used a weapon to force them to do something.

"Battery" is where contact actually occurs.

http://yourlaws.ca/criminal-code-canada/265-assault
http://lawyeraheadca.wordpress.com/...-difference-between-an-assault-and-a-battery/

Thanks for the links and I didn't know that about battery, very interesting! Still scary if you ask me, using a weapon to *force* someone to do anything should be a red flag period IMO. To see someone full of rage or to scare someone into thinking they would cause harm is a form of violence (although not physical it's still threatening to another person) and abuse in my books. Makes one wonder the whole story that's for sure. Sounds like lots of criminal behavior in his past that escalated to murder, sadly.
 
I am just trying to figure out Douglas Garland's bio, because often past actions predict future events.

It was claimed he attended one year of medical school. However, in Canada, to apply to medical school, you need to already have a previous degree. What is that degree in? Or was this "one year of medical school" just another lie?. It is also possible the "traumatic accident where he fell asleep behind the wheel" is also made up.

1960: born (or at least, he's 54 in 2014) Did he grow up on the farm? What kind of a farm is it? Ranch? Cattle? Vegetables? Animal production? Other?
1978: graduated from HS? maybe, or?
1979-1992: 12 years, what did he do during this time? University? Where? More crimes? Past associates?
1992: Alberta, Garland was charged for producing his own amphetamines and was arrested at his parents' farm
1992: He skipped town and moved to for Vancouver and assumed the name of a dead person: Matthew Kemper Hartley
1993: He applied for a SIN under this assumed name, also got a DL
1994-1997: worked at Can Test Ltd, as MKH (claimed he had B.Sc, he later said he figured one year of 'medical school' = B.Sc in his mind)
1997: At Can Test Ltd. was coordinator in the company's trace organics department, testing pesticides, herbicides and organic compounds
1997: Supervised 30 people at Can Test, suffered "nervous breakdown" and was dismissed
1997: Got EI in the name of MKH
1999: Garland worked at BCIT on a part-time basis, as MKH
1999-2000: arrested and plead guilty to drug and identity theft charges, served 39 months in federal prison
2003: After a few years of wrangling with Human Resources Development Canada (HRDC), he was deemed ineligible for past EI
2005: Went to court, acting in his own defense, using ADHD which 'contributed to muddled thinking' and had led him to make 'some not very well thought out decision, won the court case.
2006-2014? What was he doing during this time, and where? Using his scientific background? For what? With whom? How did he get money?

All information came from here:
http://globalnews.ca/news/1449500/person-of-interest-in-missing-family-case-re-arrested/

and here:
http://globalnews.ca/news/1451758/who-is-calgary-triple-murder-suspect-douglas-garland/

Looking at what we know from the background information on Douglas Garland, we see an intelligent, crafty man, who makes up stories and lies to suit himself and his goals. He has a scientific background, and is comfortable in laboratories and with chemicals. He has knowledge of farm work, and the duties and activities that goes along with that.

He has long periods of time where he is extremely stable, and able to hold down responsible jobs. He also has impulsive behaviors that he blames on "ADHD" or "muddled thinking" or having been involved in an accident where he "fell asleep at the wheel." These are his statements, no proof has been offered of them. In fact, they are probably lies, as well.

As far as we know, the only time he ever left his comfort zone of his Alberta home and neighbourhood, was when he was under risk of arrest in 1992. He showed a surprising ability to think on his feet, plan, and evade capture for 7 years. He also is bold and has no shame when it comes to his lies. He is a convincing and long-term liar, he can keep up appearances for years.

He can convince reputable people (BCIT, Can Test, and the judge in 2005 to believe his stories, because in the latter case, DG's tales of ADHD and trauma were taken at face value and repeated in the judgement as though they were fact) to give him credence. Let's see what happens this time.

He has no past history of violence that we know of. But his previous patterns match this case. He planned his activities for a long time. He may have had involvement, whether it be working using his scientific knowledge for one of AL's firms, or whether he lent AL money (did DG have money, probably not), once again, like in 1992, a crisis came to the forefront, but instead of taking someone's identity, he took their lives.

I write all of this just to clarify my own thoughts.

Future? We don't know. But it is certain he will lie again.

Any corrections welcome, and I hope this post is suitable to the moderators of WS. I purposely did not discuss what I believe DG on the night of June 30.

All JMVHO. (Just My Very Humble Opinion)

This is great. Just a couple of things. He only served one sixth of his 39 month sentence. He claimed to be ADD as opposed to ADHD (not hyperactive or impulsive). He had an assault charge against him but it was stayed. He had two weapons charges against him and they were dropped. Otherwise I think you've nailed it based on everything we have learned here and in MSM. Thank you.
 
A few more things to add to the bio, from Canadian Press:

'Douglas Garland an intelligent man with mental issues, criminal past'

http://www.lillooetnews.net/news/do...mental-issues-criminal-past-records-1.1206953

1988 charge of prohibited weapon: dismissed
1989 assault charge stayed
1999 another weapons charge: stayed

However, I must disagree with these articles. The only 'mental issues' are the ones brought up as excuses by DG.
 
Just thinking and I am sure that LE has already thought about this but here goes....

This horrible crime was thought out well in advance. It was planned; of this I am sure, and it most likely goes back to a seething anger and resentment regarding his business dealings.

If I were LE I'd be looking at DG's movements in the months prior to the murders. Check credit card records, cell phone records (check the pings). Where was he and why? Check Gas station CCTV all over but prior to the event. Put the word out...did you see DG in the months prior to the murders and if so where did you see him? if you trace his movements and he seems in a strange or distant area that doesn't make sense then we may be able to find the bodies.

He very well could have been scoping out locations to get rid of the bodies well in advance. This information would also go to premeditation.
 
Where are his parents in all this? Don't they have anything to say? Maybe they can afford to pay his legal/psych fees?

I wish he would just cough up where these poor souls are. :angel:
 
I've thought the same thing.

I am convinced that the cadaver dog got "hits" at the Airdrie acreage. That tells me that bodies were there at some point.

Just my opinion, but I think the fact that he had 3 people to deal with may have derailed some of his plans. He killed a child and that wasn't in the plan. He was unprepared for a child to be part of the mix. He made his decision quickly but it caused him a dilemma. It changed his very well thought out plans. My guess is that all the bodies came back to the farm and he had to think on things a bit. He may actually have been upset about the child or pissed off that his plans went awry. Whatever he was thinking, he may have become overwhelmed and had to "take a break" to get his thinking back on track.

Once he calmed himself, as much as he could, he moved the bodies and disposed of evidence. Some of that evidence I believe ended up in the landfill.

I think he came back and in a panic just started burning stuff; whatever he thought could pose a problem for him.

I am convinced that the bodies were at the acreage at some point or another because of the cadaver dogs, the burning of "garbage" and his affinity for the property. He seems to be incredibly attached to this place. The one place he was NOT permitted to go to was the one place he tried to get to. Unreal.

I think that property is extremely important to him in a way that we would never understand. It provides a safe haven for him and has for years. It represents something to him. He always comes back to the farm. The bodies were there at one point. Of this I am certain.
I'll never say I'm certain if I can't be 100% but I have a hunch you're right. I'm surprised they didn't alliw him to go back just to watch what he would try to accomplish there. Ig is possible he thought of some business he needed to finish OR it wouldn't be a stretch to think he has other crimes to hide.

He may have experimented with other things first to perfect his alleged hideous scheme in a timely manner.

I am sick with grief for this family. Today was the first time I saw NO's dad's earlier plea for his safe return and it's crushing to think of what these people are feeling now.

If it weren't for that video surveillance of the truck, LE may still be without leads. Thank goodness for that.
 
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