Deceased/Not Found Canada - Alvin, 66, & Kathy Liknes, 53, Nathan O'Brien, 5, Calgary, 30 June 2014 - #9

[Sillybilly]

I suppose that Douglas had to move Alvin's truck to put the bodies in the back of his truck, and then he put Alvin's truck back in the driveway?

<rsbm>

I think maybe Alvin always parked on that side of the driveway to allow the other car to back out of the garage. In google maps history, there was a blue truck parked in that same spot that Alvin's newer truck was parked. Would be pretty easy for a truck to back up to the garage on the left side in front of the garage door and appear to be loading purchases from the day's sale. (Also, I have a feeling DG would have scoped the situation out to the point that he knew ahead of time that the house adjacent to the garage was vacant.)

http://www.calgaryherald.com/cms/binary/10027452.jpg

 

[stan laurel]

There was fairly extensive convo about identification of burned remains over in Tim Bosma's thread .. dentals are the best way to identify as compared to DNA:

from Bessie's post in that forum:
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?213364-The-Incinerator&p=9608172#post9608172

sad if pulverised

 

[otto]

In regards to the lights being on, the only troubling aspect is that here in Calgary at this time of year, it isn't dark until 10:30ish at night. The sun also rises at about 5:45. That's a seriously small window to be taking care of 3 bodies without the risk of being exposed by daylight.

If he arrived between 10 and midnight, depending on the moon, it could have been a dark night. He had from 11PM until 4PM to commit murder, remove the bodies, return to the scene, clean up and leave. I'm pretty sure that, based on the shadows from the green truck in the photo release, the photo was taken at about 4-4:30AM. I think that photo was taken after Garland had returned to the house to clean up.

Let's give him five hours from beginning to end. He arrives, he murders the three victims, one after the other, and drags them to the parking pad at the front of the house. No one sees a thing, so it must be late, closer to midnight than 10PM. He loads them onto the truck. I'm thinking 30-60 minutes, depending on how easy it is to load 200 pounds and six feet onto the truck. That takes an hour, roughly. It's 1AM. He leaves the scene, unloads the bodies, and is back at the scene to clean up and hose down, and he leaves by 4:15AM. That means about 3 hours to dispose of bodies, return to the scene, and hose down the crime scene. It's 45 minutes to Airdrie. Round trip is 1.5 hours, but there's also the time it takes to move the bodies from the truck to somewhere ... did police analyse the parking pad at his parent's home? There's also clean up time ... that could take another hour. Did he drop the bodies at his parent's property (take them out of the truck and put them somewhere that no one would notice if his parents came home early) and then head back to the scene to make sure he hosed everything down as well as possible to hide evidence?

He had from June 30 until July 4 to make the bodies disappear ... that's an awful lot of time.

 

[bakerlady]

My last thought on this case is that DG and AL must have had a recent dealing with each other. I highly doubt this is stemming from some patent thing 7 years ago. If so that's a whole other level of crazy IMO. Not that it makes a difference at this point.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

DG's truck is old and likely loud. I'm not so sure he would risk being heard and alerting the neighbors to peek out of their windows.

I think he might have used AL's truck for everything, while his truck was parked around the corner somewhere and then returned it to the driveway, walked back to his truck and drove home.

Good point about the noisy truck, I wouldn't be surprised if he had the nerve to use AL's truck either.

 

[otto]

My last thought on this case is that DG and AL must have had a recent dealing with each other. I highly doubt this is stemming from some patent thing 7 years ago. If so that's a whole other level of crazy IMO. Not that it makes a difference at this point.

The 2011 patent was tested through Winter Petroleum, and it didn't work. That is probably the patent in question, as a 2013 patent was also put through. Did that one work? If that patent worked, that is the motive. It if didn't work, then Garland is delusional.

 

[bakerlady]

If he arrived between 10 and midnight, depending on the moon, it could have been a dark night. He had from 11PM until 4PM to commit murder, remove the bodies, return to the scene, clean up and leave. I'm pretty sure that, based on the shadows from the green truck in the photo release, the photo was taken at about 4-4:30AM. I think that photo was taken after Garland had returned to the house to clean up.

Let's give him five hours from beginning to end. He arrives, he murders the three victims, one after the other, and drags them to the parking pad at the front of the house. No one sees a thing, so it must be late, closer to midnight than 10PM. He loads them onto the truck. I'm thinking 30-60 minutes, depending on how easy it is to load 200 pounds and six feet onto the truck. That takes an hour, roughly. It's 1AM. He leaves the scene, unloads the bodies, and is back at the scene to clean up and hose down, and he leaves by 4:15AM. That means about 3 hours to dispose of bodies, return to the scene, and hose down the crime scene. It's 45 minutes to Airdrie. Round trip is 1.5 hours, but there's also the time it takes to move the bodies from the truck to somewhere ... did police analyse the parking pad at his parent's home? There's also clean up time ... that could take another hour. Did he drop the bodies at his parent's property (take them out of the truck and put them somewhere that no one would notice if his parents came home early) and then head back to the scene to make sure he hosed everything down as well as possible to hide evidence?

He had from June 30 until July 4 to make the bodies disappear ... that's an awful lot of time.

In the photo of his truck that was published, was he going towards the house or away from it?

Also in order for DG to thoroughly scope out the scene (if he did at all) in advance he would have to drive by several times over a few days and observe. He drives and old and presumably loud truck that might be out of place in a neighborhood with expensive homes. He would certainly stick out. AL and KL might have also recognized him.

It would make sense for him to do this during late night/early morning hours.

For all we know, the photo that was provided could have been from earlier that week.

 

[kmclaren]

Good point about the noisy truck, I wouldn't be surprised if he had the nerve to use AL's truck either.

If AL's truck had been used between 10pm and 10am, it would also have been picked up in the same video camera(s) as the green truck was. I wonder if it took them a few days to realize that, thus the delay in towing AL's truck to examine it? I also wonder where AL's truck is now - either still with police or released to a family member, I assume it wouldn't have been returned to the driveway.

 

[ztzt]

Douglas is 54, born in 1959.

Douglas Robert Garland (1960-01-27) (posted in an earlier thread)

 

[otto]

Good point about the noisy truck, I wouldn't be surprised if he had the nerve to use AL's truck either.

What would Garland have done with Alvin's truck? ... used it to remove the bodies from the crime scene ... and left his truck down the street? Wouldn't it be safer to leave the scene in his own truck and only carefully return to the crime scene after ensuring that it hadn't been discovered? I doubt that Garland left his truck at the scene of the murder and used Alvin's truck to move bodies. It's possible, but then he wasn't going to his parent's property ... if he was returning to his parent's property with bodies, he would have used his own truck to prevent the possibility that the murders were discovered and his truck was found at the wrong place at the wrong time.

For all of Garland's delusions of cleverness (acquired through cheating; see University records), he is the typical criminal that returned to the scene of the crime to attempt to hide (obfuscate) the evidence.

 

[otto]

Douglas Robert Garland (1960-01-27) (posted in an earlier thread)

Thanks ... Garland was born in 1960. So if his sister was born in 1974, he was 14 years old. If she was born in 1972, he was 12 years old. The family moved to the Airdrie acreage when he was 13, in 1973. What came first: the new baby or the move to the acreage? Was he jealous of his sister? Is that why he murdered her father in law, her nephew, and her husband's step mother?

What kind of big brother would Douglas have been to his little sister? He thinks that he is superior. How would he have related to a younger sibling? He could have been as young as 8 years old when his sister was born or he could have been as old as 14. That would make her 46 years old today and their parents would be in their late 70s or early 80s.

 

[bakerlady]

If AL's truck had been used between 10pm and 10am, it would also have been picked up in the same video camera(s) as the green truck was. I wonder if it took them a few days to realize that, thus the delay in towing AL's truck to examine it? I also wonder where AL's truck is now - either still with police or released to a family member, I assume it wouldn't have been returned to the driveway.

Maybe that added to the confusion in thinking they were still alive, and the statement that someone left the house alive.

Also AL's truck is a newer model and quite common. DG's truck sticks out like a sore thumb. But as LE seems to be very on top of things, I am going to assume they figured that part out already.

 

[Oregonmama]

I was thinking what you said also I've always felt (I'm trying not to post morbid/gruesome posts) a wound would have to be pretty big or open to leave those kinds of marks, it takes a lot to stain concrete/pavement in a drag mark form for that distance IMO. Another dreadful thought I had was if let's say the ME did find a certain amount of blood evidence inside the home that morning that LE possibly knew early on or even maybe even just recently confirmed there were no survivors because of the volume of loss, makes me wonder if they were there awhile before being moved for the volume to be large... Okay, no more gruesome posts for me, too sad. BBM. Sorry if I offended anyone, no more gore for me, nothing against other posters to each their own, just too sad for me to type.

I'm still a newbie on this site so please be patient with me. I keep wondering if JO saw all this evidence re the drag marks and the horrific scene in the house. I imagine she would have the key to the house . I would freak out

 

[PrincessButtercup]

Thanks ... Garland was born in 1960. So if his sister was born in 1974, he was 14 years old. If she was born in 1972, he was 12 years old. The family moved to the Airdrie acreage when he was 13, in 1973. What came first: the new baby or the move to the acreage? Was he jealous of his sister? Is that why he murdered her father in law, her nephew, and her husband's step mother?

What kind of big brother would Douglas have been to his little sister? He thinks that he is superior. How would he have related to a younger sibling? He could have been as young as 8 years old when his sister was born or he could have been as old as 14. That would make her 46 years old today and their parents would be in their late 70s or early 80s.

if she is 46 she would have been born in 1968 I seem to recall a post where she was stated to have graduated in 1987. Too bad the schools in Airdrie are closed for the summer. Would have been nice to verify it via yearbooks.

 

[otto]

Maybe that added to the confusion in thinking they were still alive, and the statement that someone left the house alive.

Also AL's truck is a newer model and quite common. DG's truck sticks out like a sore thumb. But as LE seems to be very on top of things, I am going to assume they figured that part out already.

I doubt that there was confusion regarding whether the victims were alive. I think that there was evidence that they were not alive, and police worked hard to explore all possibilities that they were alive. Calgary police work with prosecutors and the attorney general. There are no holes in the system so far. The prosecutor on the case seems weak, and I think that he made a colossal mistake by mingling with the media. A man like that cannot be impartial ... in my opinion. He seems compromised with his careless remark about "bullets". Who is his co-counsel and can he find the back stairs before trial?

 

[LoriMcA]

The comment above about moonlight got me thinking so I went a'googlin'
Found this site which might help us in a timeline/weather visual....
Shows hourly weather that night/day....
http://www.friendlyforecast.com/can...egion=ab2&id=10&date=20140630000000&sort=hour

Also...if you want another date you can change it at the bottom to previous day or next day .....
ETA: Sorry I didn't go back to quote who mentioned moonlight...I'm tired & wanted to get that link up but thank you whoever did

 

[stan laurel]

The 2011 patent was tested through Winter Petroleum, and it didn't work. That is probably the patent in question, as a 2013 patent was also put through. Did that one work? If that patent worked, that is the motive. It if didn't work, then Garland is delusional.

This is more about DG as the inventor and AL as the entrepreneur; in my experience the least creative people I have met are engineering types. Inventors are an interesting breed, it's rarely about money, ideas are problems solved, on napkins and scraps of paper, they are nurtured and literally take form for many inventors (as a life). In likelihood the idea did work, or conveniently didn't work, AL was a money raiser type, killing ideas is as lucrative as to toting them to potential investors. I think DG may have been swayed and then watched his concept disappear. Not to be morbid but whatever heightened anxiety DG was in during the night of 6/30 might have even become more heightened by the presence of NO, someone precious to AL. DG's eye for an eye was much different than how saner people regard this sentiment. None of this would have happened if AL had been square and on the level in his business manner imo. Brutally heartbreaking.

 

[otto]

The comment above about moonlight got me thinking so I went a'googlin'
Found this site which might help us in a timeline/weather visual....
Shows hourly weather that night/day....
http://www.friendlyforecast.com/can...egion=ab2&id=10&date=20140630000000&sort=hour

Also...if you want another date you can change it in the web addie in this part where it says '20140630000000&sort=hour' you can see where it goes year/month/day as in 20140630....simply change that out to whatever date you are looking for....so if you want to see weather for the previous day/evening you would change it to 20140629 etc etc ...so if you want to see the evening from 10 pm to midnight you can find it in the previous days weather

ETA: Sorry I didn't go back to quote who mentioned moonlight...I'm tired & wanted to get that link up but thank you whoever did

There was a super-moon some time around July 8; that was a full moon. Was it a 3/4 moon when the murders occurred on the night of June 29?

 

[kdgdid]

PG graduated from high school in 87 so DG would be approx 9 years older.

Thanks ... Garland was born in 1960. So if his sister was born in 1974, he was 14 years old. If she was born in 1972, he was 12 years old. The family moved to the Airdrie acreage when he was 13, in 1973. What came first: the new baby or the move to the acreage? Was he jealous of his sister? Is that why he murdered her father in law, her nephew, and her husband's step mother?

What kind of big brother would Douglas have been to his little sister? He thinks that he is superior. How would he have related to a younger sibling? He could have been as young as 8 years old when his sister was born or he could have been as old as 14. That would make her 46 years old today and their parents would be in their late 70s or early 80s.

 

[PrincessButtercup]

There was a super-moon some time around July 8; that was a full moon. Was it a 3/4 moon when the murders occurred on the night of June 29?

Moon phase calendar for June 2014

http://www.calendar-12.com/moon_calendar/2014/june