Deceased/Not Found Canada - Alvin, 66, & Kathy Liknes, 53, Nathan O'Brien, 5, Calgary, 30 June 2014 - #9

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otto said:
There's a place called Kathryn ... don't think it is related to the body location, but an interesting thought.
What sort of "clever" does Douglas Garland see in himself? That's a weird question, but is he clever sneaky and devious with a shifty eye? ... clever with a smirk? ... clever such that he perceives himself intellectually superior to everyone else?
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Very interesting, who knows how this Guy thinks. My question is why would someone who had already been incarcerated years ago using stolen identity continue to use the same name as H. and was the credit card in H's name? I am confused , just trying to get into his thoughts. Thanks
 
PrincessButtercup said:
Unless the fire was very, very hot the bones would not have burned and are an excellent source of DNA

Bone is one of the best sources of DNA from decomposed human remains. Even after the flesh is decomposed, DNA can often be obtained from demineralized bone. DNA from bone has been used to identify the repatrioted bones from Vietnam era servicemen, and the remains of the White Russian Romanov family who were executed during the Bolsheviek revolution.


http://www.biology.arizona.edu/human_bio/problem_sets/dna_forensics_2/06t.html
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Yes I said that earlier, that he would have had to have removed the bones from the ashes. This is another reason why I think LE said that people would not know what to be looking for. They would not expect to see a bag of bones.......ugh so sad.
 
bakerlady said:
Yes I said that earlier, that he would have had to have removed the bones from the ashes. This is another reason why I think LE said that people would not know what to be looking for. They would not expect to see a bag of bones.......ugh so sad.
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Exactly, that's why I'm so glad that they actually came out and asked people not to search. Their hearts are in the right place but that doesn't mean they are actually helping.
 
otto said:
The forensic science unit was at his parent's home collecting evidence. Something might have happened in that house.
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I suspect you are correct. Lab results on samples taken from the home probably became available and removed the "glimmer of hope".

Actually I meant the Liknes home but you are referring to the Garland home.
 
dairydog said:
Sillybilly We WS members hope that you, your family & property are safe & away from those fires.

BBM
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Thanks for your thoughts dairydog ... so far, so good here. Couple of small fires locally, but there is a 80 hectare one out of control the other side of the mountain range outside my window and they've had to pull the firefighters out. We should be okay if the wind doesn't do a drastic shift in our direction. The big fire isn't THAT close, but I'm having to watch them all as we're in an area where we could get trapped by fires to the north and the south .. with no way to go but UP, LOL. Prepared to hike out and would leave in plenty of time so as not to get into an evacuation with having to leave pets behind. I'm a wuss ... we're good :biggrin:
 
cathdawg said:
Very interesting, who knows how this Guy thinks. My question is why would someone who had already been incarcerated years ago using stolen identity continue to use the same name as H. and was the credit card in H's name? I am confused , just trying to get into his thoughts. Thanks
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I think he did it because he could. The fake ID should have been confiscated when he was arrested in 1999. If it wasn't, then he kept it in his wallet to illustrate the stupidity of the courts and officers. Assuming it was confiscated, he then applied for duplicate copies after he was released from prison, and again he was more clever than the government ... who would have been stupid enough to re-issue false identification to a man that had been charged with using that false ID to avoid arrest.

I think he did it because he could. It should never have happened that he had ID for the deceased child after his arrest for using that false ID to avoid arrest 15 years ago. How did it happen? Someone screwed up, but for Douglas Garland, it was a feather in his cap towards his cleverness.
 
LoyalSleuth said:
Hello All,
I am back from a beautiful camping trip in Algonquin. My reception was not great, and it was a bit of an unplug and get away from it all trip anyway... That was until Monday, when my husband did a quick run in the truck to get supplies, when he returned he told me there had been an arrest in "my case" (Dear hubby refers to all the cases I follow as " my case")

I am so saddened to hear this outcome, my numerou theories always leaned towards a planned exit from Calgary by the grandparents (and NO just happened to be there so was brought along), I truly wanted to believe this as it meant everyone was safe and unharmed... Unfortunately this is not the case.

My heart breaks to think about what may have happened that night / day, I can not even begin to bring those thoughts to my mind. I hope there is swift justice for this poor family, I hope the bodies are recovered so that the O & L family can lay them all to rest. I can not imagine what JO is going through, possibly burying her son and parents... My gosh, my head hurts thinking about it....

One thing I thought of as I was skimming through the posts, can the fact that DG's parents were away camping when this all happened, fall under the premeditated umbrella?
This time was planned because of them being away, he would have the farm to himself, and really had nothing to do with the sale?

May God Bless the O & L family and I pray they find some peace once the media fades away....
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Hey, LS, not a nice feeling on your holiday, to hear that news, I have been there more than once.

Great observation on the planning part, regarding Garland's parents being away.

Unfortunately, that leads my imagination to places that I don't want to go, as I, like many other sleuthers here, have followed cases from start to 'finish' only to be mortified as more evidence is uncovered, and things revealed I wish I didn't know.

If these 3 innocent victims are indeed deceased, as LE alleges, then I can only wish that they went swiftly and without suffering. Until we hear otherwise, I will keep it in my head that is what happened.
 
Wondergirl said:
Hey, LS, not a nice feeling on your holiday, to hear that news, I have been there more than once.

Great observation on the planning part, regarding Garland's parents being away.

Unfortunately, that leads my imagination to places that I don't want to go, as I, like many other sleuthers here, have followed cases from start to 'finish' only to be mortified as more evidence is uncovered, and things revealed I wish I didn't know.

If these 3 innocent victims are indeed deceased, as LE alleges, then I can only wish that they went swiftly and without suffering. Until we hear otherwise, I will keep it in my head that is what happened.
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We don't actually know what happened, do we? I mean, there are drag marks, there are two crime scenes, police are searching for the bodies, but after that, do we know anything?
A burning barrel in the District of Rocky View is not allowed to get hot enough to burn bodies. There are fire hazards everywhere. There will be regulations ... so no bodies can be in the burning barrel.

Case in point: There was a marine from NC who was pregnant. The man that thought he was the father (Cesar someone, married) killed the pregnant marine and put her at the bottom of a bonfire. The unborn babys DNA (at the bottom of the bonfire) was tested to prove that he was in fact not the father.
 
otto said:
I think he did it because he could. The fake ID should have been confiscated when he was arrested in 1999. If it wasn't, then he kept it in his wallet to illustrate the stupidity of the courts and officers. Assuming it was confiscated, he then applied for duplicate copies after he was released from prison, and again he was more clever than the government ... who would have been stupid enough to re-issue false identification to a man that had been charged with using that false ID to avoid arrest.

I think he did it because he could. It should never have happened that he had ID for the deceased child after his arrest for using that false ID to avoid arrest 15 years ago. How did it happen? Someone screwed up, but for Douglas Garland, it was a feather in his cap towards his cleverness.
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Young DG had the world at his feet as a young man. Successful studies and a future in medicine.
It came to an abrupt end upon his expulsion from university.
( is this time limited or indefinite?) there would be no further studies there.
Is this why he assumed the other identity? When did the crime start?
How did he respond with each failure? Each arrest?
Why would he not have returned to his real identity rather than sticking with the one he held for his criminal activity?
Was the patent the last straw in a series of actions that didn't acknowledge his intellect?
Was he motivated by ego or money?
 
I think he methodically planned the murders to a T. When I look at the G Farm it is immaculate as is the green F150. My feeling is he is most likely also has OCD. He is apparently socially aloof, extremely bright has ADD, had "breakdowns", whatever they are called these days..so what diagnoses re a mental health assessment would he fall under ? He obviously was so angry to kill...
He went from stealing a dead persons identity, stolen credit card/s , theft of equipment and who knows what else prior to this point.

He had privy to the Family's life, had done business with AL, his sister is in a relationship with AL's son. They would get together at the Family events , he would be aware of recent dissolvement of a AL's Company, the Estate sale and knowing that they were set to leave the Country. Most likely knew the home was vacant on the on side of the home, Stampede was starting (fireworks).

We can assume the motive was money, he took this on like a "hitman". This I just don't get it.
 
I'm sure that Garland burned evidence after the murder, but I don't see any logical reason to assume that the bodies were burned to ashes. First, the county doesn't allow those types of open fires on the prairies. Secondly, police have stated that the bodies are out there, police are searching, one family member is searching the backroads. All the evidence points to the fact that the bodies have not been found ... not as ash, not as bones, and we don't know whether clothing has been found.
 
cathdawg said:
I think he methodically planned the murders to a T. When I look at the G Farm it is immaculate as is the green F150. My feeling is he is most likely also has OCD. He is apparently socially aloof, extremely bright has ADD, had "breakdowns", whatever they are called these days..so what diagnoses re a mental health assessment would he fall under ? He obviously was so angry to kill...
He went from stealing a dead persons identity, stolen credit card/s , theft of equipment and who knows what else prior to this point.

He had privy to the Family's life, had done business with AL, his sister is in a relationship with AL's son. They would get together at the Family events , he would be aware of recent dissolvement of a AL's Company, the Estate sale and knowing that they were set to leave the Country. Most likely knew the home was vacant on the on side of the home, Stampede was starting (fireworks).

We can assume the motive was money, he took this on like a "hitman". This I just don't get it.
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Theft of equipment, and also running someone down on the street (that resulted in a fine). I think that Douglas would be aware of Alvin's business because Garland's sister; wife of Alvin's son, probably talked to her elderly mom, regularly updating her on events in her life. That would have included plans to liquidate, leave the country, sell the property (Dec 5 2013), bankruptcy. Douglas was living with his parents, so his mother would have updated him on his sister's live.

That's an interesting perspective. If he felt that he had been wronged, then piece by piece he hears that business taxes weren't paid, the house was quietly sold, the estate was being liquidated, but there was another house in Evansburg, and another in Mexico. If he felt that he was owed, and suppose he bought into a sad story about being unable to pay, and then he heard about a retirement home on the beach ... that could be enough to tip an unstable resentful maniac over the edge.
 
cathdawg said:
I think he methodically planned the murders to a T. When I look at the G Farm it is immaculate as is the green F150. My feeling is he is most likely also has OCD. He is apparently socially aloof, extremely bright has ADD, had "breakdowns", whatever they are called these days..so what diagnoses re a mental health assessment would he fall under ? He obviously was so angry to kill...
He went from stealing a dead persons identity, stolen credit card/s , theft of equipment and who knows what else prior to this point.

He had privy to the Family's life, had done business with AL, his sister is in a relationship with AL's son. They would get together at the Family events , he would be aware of recent dissolvement of a AL's Company, the Estate sale and knowing that they were set to leave the Country. Most likely knew the home was vacant on the on side of the home, Stampede was starting (fireworks).

We can assume the motive was money, he took this on like a "hitman". This I just don't get it.
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I don't think it was about money. I think it was about pride. I think he perceives himself as intellectually superior to others, and in stride, people claim that he is clever. Three years into his Bachelor of Science degree, he was expelled for cheating. This is when he was caught, but when did he start? Is he clever or devious? I think he worked on a project with Alvin and that perhaps there was a falling out about compensation, or recognition ... something. We know that it is most likely related to a patent, so perhaps the lack of recognition on a patent and ... no compensation? Could someone that considered himself superior turn into a maniac and murder a five year old child that looks like an angel?
 
Take this perspective:

He killed the family of his sister ... her father in law, his wife, her nephew. How does that factor into the equation?
 
Hello sleuthers!

I have not read all your posts (you are all amazing!) but I have a insight for you (not sure if it has been mentioned yet tonight?).....

The Calgary - Airdrie area has had horrific hail today, as big has tennis balls. The farmers and their crop adjusters will be out in the next 1 to 45 days surveying every field for damage. They will be walking, riding quads, and in some cases using UAV's. If there is something, someone..... to be found....it will be discovered. I feel so sad for this family, the siblings of the little guy and everyone that is hurting. I pray for everyone involved.
 
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