CANADA Canada - Audrey Gleave, 73, Ancaster ON, 30 Dec 2010 #2

DNA Solves
DNA Solves
DNA Solves

New Posts

Status
Not open for further replies.
Hi dotr - this sort of thing also crossed my mind.

So far, we really only know of a few people who were in Audrey's life - LV, PK, her brother-in-law, the vet, the coffee group, etc.

But :waitasec:, were there any romantic situations in Audrey's life? Perhaps even an online 'relationship'? Did Audrey try to ditch some man in her past but he kept track of her whereabouts? This last scenario might account for Audrey's caution with having her email address floating out there in cyberspace.

Question for PK: Did Audrey celebrate Thanksgiving with anyone? Or, was it just another day for her?

:tyou:
 
greenthumb said:
http://mellortalksmurder.blogspot.com/2011/10/audrey-gleave-deadly-premonitions.html?zx=d07516ac61cac599

Forgive me if this has been posted, I haven't read all recent posts - the fellow has blogged about some amateur profiling he's done on AG's case. I have not heard of him previously, know nothing of his background. Toward the end of the blog he draws some conclusions about what he believes happened, etc.
Click to expand...

Oh, thanks so very much! :tyou:

This part seems to say that Audrey did not tell the coffee group she'd be not attending but rather, she simple failed to show up for coffee:

WHEN: Time of death has not yet been released to the public. Audrey was last seen on Tuesday December 28, 2010. At 2:30 AM the following morning, a neighbours dog was heard barking (though this was not uncommon). However she did not arrive for her regular coffee meeting that Wednesday. Her body was discovered at 11 AM on Thursday.


This part is also what I've been thinking happened to Audrey:

WHY: During a sexual murder, anger is frequently coupled with frustrated lust. I doubt this offender was psychologically capable of having regular consensual sex with or raping a living human. If there was penetration involved it would have been post-mortem or with a foreign object. Though both are possible, I am going to say that the killer used the stabbing implement (knife, screwdriver etc.) as an object of sexual substitution for his penis. Anger at his own sexual inadequacy + the sexual desire to penetrate a woman's genitals = overkill and mutilation. Good reference cases are Andre Chikatilo in the former Soviet Union and Britain's "Yorkshire Ripper" Peter Sutcliffe. They targeted different types of victims, but their crimes were similar. Interestingly, both men were married but had non-existent or highly inhibited sex lives with their spouses.



We've also concluded this part:

Residence: Thankfully, here I can be much more specific. I can confidently state that the UNSUB will either live within a 10 KM radius of the Gleave residence (probably close to the centre), OR will have had a reason to visit the area on multiple occasions. The most plausible explanation is to see family. Visiting friends or work obligations are less likely possibilities. We must always keep in mind that Audrey Gleave was murderered over the holiday season.



This part is interesting for me:

Relationships/family: The UNSUB will harbour deep-seated, emotionally crippling anger towards his mother who berated and/or controlled him throughout his existence, laying the foundation of his subsequent hatred and sexual inadequacies. Her abuse could be psychological, physical and/or sexual in nature. If his father was present, he would be the weaker of the two parents, exercising little influence on his son's development. As a result of his formative experiences with his mother, the offender will not be in a romantic relationship unless he is completely dominated and supported by his significant other. If this is the case, the union will be marked by a lack of sexual activity.That said, I'd place my money on him being incurably single. OR, could he be married to a very dominating wife? OR, could he be gay? (Just me thinking out loud here......)



Where I disagree with the article:

I don't necessarily think the UNSUB is not well educated. I think he could be extremely well educated because Audrey would 'attract' intelligent people into her life.


Occupation/skills/intelligence/socialization: The UNSUB is either unemployed or drastically underemployed. We can reasonably assume this because the murder seems to have occurred in the wee hours of a Tuesday morning, when most career-oriented Canadians would have been asleep in bed. Audrey Gleave's was hardly a controlled, well planned homicide; the perpetrator seems to have subdued her almost immediately in a blitz style attack. Nor did he make an effort to prolong his experience with her. Putting these pieces of the puzzle together reveals a man of low intelligence (or average with psychosis), impulsivity and an utter absence of imagination. In short, the UNSUB could not be self employed because he lacks the discipline, tenacity and guile. Financially dependent on the government or a family member, he will live a nocturnal lifestyle, spending most of his time by himself. His insecurities, quirks and inadequacies make him incapable of fitting into society. His friends will be few, if any. In this way, he is more comparable to the killer I profiled in The Tice-Gilmour murders than that of Cindy Halliday.



ETA: I had no idea :doh: who Lee Mellor is, so this is what I found about him:

http://ca.linkedin.com/pub/lee-mellor/31/809/ab8
 
When I read that that DG said that AG feared she would be raped and murdered it gave me the chills. This is every womans' unspoken fear surely.
It seems an out of character thing for her to say, was their relationship that close that you would voice you biggest fear?
 
Sure hope PK can soon answer the many questions posted for him!

I am interested in the service people that came by only occasionally - furnace/AC for example or any other mechanical device AG may have had (stair-chair or other lift) that one might want a licensed person to look at. Plumber/electrician?

I can't help but think AG left her dogs inside the home and entered her garage to greet someone she knew - not necessarily very well, but someone she was in fact familiar with. I'm open as to whether this person was all that young or not - seems to me an older person can be immature/selfish etc and would give the appearance of being young in the wake of their crimes if not caught. I think much more has to be done in the area of profiling criminals. Jmo.
 
Have LE ever reported on where bruising/wounds from the beating were located on AG's body, i.e. below the waist, above the waist, head area or over the entire body. I agree with the profiler in that AG was most definitely ambushed.
 
Hazel posted some great shots of AG's home, but I can't find them.
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=13228&stc=1&d=1294885814
I did notice that on the sliding glass door, it appeared it was covered in aluminum foil.

I read online that aluminum foil is used to make a room cooler, so why would AG (of all people) not know this and want to keep a room cooler in the winter.

This doesn't make sense to me, so will ask PK is the aluminum foil something AG left up for all seasons? Thank you PK.
 
It has been reported that AG was found lying prone (face down).

I am confused -- I thought she was on her back and her eyes were open. If she was face up, this would be supine, not prone.

How are we to know which report is correct?
 
Woodland said:
Sure hope PK can soon answer the many questions posted for him!

I am interested in the service people that came by only occasionally - furnace/AC for example or any other mechanical device AG may have had (stair-chair or other lift) that one might want a licensed person to look at. Plumber/electrician?

I can't help but think AG left her dogs inside the home and entered her garage to greet someone she knew - not necessarily very well, but someone she was in fact familiar with. I'm open as to whether this person was all that young or not - seems to me an older person can be immature/selfish etc and would give the appearance of being young in the wake of their crimes if not caught. I think much more has to be done in the area of profiling criminals. Jmo.
Click to expand...

PK told us that AG's new convection oven was installed in mid-November and that AG had mentioned to PK that the person was rude to her.

Would also like to know who did snow removal for AG.
 
PK - are you still here at this site? Do you have time to respond to our many questions?

Thanks.

ETA: Some thoughts about prone and supine:

It seems to me that the Jon Wells articles were taken from what PK had told him. But the Lee Mellor blog doesn't seem to rely on eye witnesses but rather LE information.

PK - were you so freaked out at what you encountered that perhaps you "saw" it incorrectly? No one could blame you for that surely.
 
greenthumb said:
http://mellortalksmurder.blogspot.com/2011/10/audrey-gleave-deadly-premonitions.html?zx=d07516ac61cac599

Thanks for the link Thumb, I found the profile interesting in that, PERHAPS the UNSUB given the description by Mellor, could have been an acquaintence of DLS from the streets or homeless shelter or church soup line. Who might have stayed at the barn himself from time to time thereby having opportunity to have seen AG drive by or maybe even have been discussed with DLS as the old lady who lives up the street. This sort of makes the most sense to me, given Mellor's information.
Click to expand...
 
And ideas/thoughts from Lily's post:

Do we know what LE found in the barn that was of interest to them? I forget!:blushing:
 
No_Stone_Unturned said:
I have no idea what a code grabber is.:doh:

How close to the keypad must one be in order to grab the code?
Could a person driving by Audrey's house grab the code?
How long does the grabbed code stay in the device which grabs the code?
"Most" garages can be grabbed by the device - which garages are immune to the code grabber?

:nuts::bang::nuts:
Click to expand...

I've heard they can't grab all codes, and that some perps just go looking for one that opens and then make a plan from there.

That said, to avoid that possibility, some garages have a switch inside which turns off power to the auto-door system. For example, on ours you can flick a switch that prevents the garage from being opened via the outside keypad. I do that every time I come home so that no-one can open it while we sleep. I also do it when we go away for a while. ie: back the car out, go back in the garage, shut the door, switch off the garage power, and then exit the house via the front door.

I'd be interested to know if AG had such a system. Having the switch on, could indicate she was expecting someone, or at least opened the door for someone.
 
greenthumb said:
http://mellortalksmurder.blogspot.com/2011/10/audrey-gleave-deadly-premonitions.html?zx=d07516ac61cac599

Forgive me if this has been posted, I haven't read all recent posts - the fellow has blogged about some amateur profiling he's done on AG's case. I have not heard of him previously, know nothing of his background. Toward the end of the blog he draws some conclusions about what he believes happened, etc.
Click to expand...

I think he got a lot of his info from the JW story. The part about last being seen on the 28th is consistent with an error in the "timeline" chart of events that appeared with the story. The actual JW story timeline contradicted the chart timeline the Spec threw in.

I don't agree with LM's notion that the perp is unemployed. Afterall, he himself said it was the holiday season....so not all " career-oriented Canadians" would be in bed at that time of the year. I've heard that many people way up the corporate ladder are psychopaths; they stomped on everyone they could to get there. While they don't necessarily kill, some like Russell Williams do.

As for AG expressing fears about being raped and murdered, I think many women living in such a location, with an ever-rising frequency of crime would express that.

However, I have to agree that the "lying prone" seems to be at odds with PK's story. Maybe LM meant prone in a looser sense as "prostrate"...if that is a looser sense.
 
nicgumshoe said:
I've heard they can't grab all codes, and that some perps just go looking for one that opens and then make a plan from there.

That said, to avoid that possibility, some garages have a switch inside which turns off power to the auto-door system. For example, on ours you can flick a switch that prevents the garage from being opened via the outside keypad. I do that every time I come home so that no-one can open it while we sleep. I also do it when we go away for a while. ie: back the car out, go back in the garage, shut the door, switch off the garage power, and then exit the house via the front door.

I'd be interested to know if AG had such a system. Having the switch on, could indicate she was expecting someone, or at least opened the door for someone.
Click to expand...

Thanks! :tyou: We're having our garage opener installed in a new home we've bought and now I/we know what to ask the installation people to do - add the switch you've mentioned in order to turn it off.

Just in the nick of time!! :)
 
Glad that's of help! Can never be too safe.

I forgot to mention, until you switch it on, you can't open it from the inside either with the big opener button (or with your remote). Every other day I ask myself, "why won't the garage open?...oh right...the switch" :)
 
:blushing: More questions for PK:

Did Audrey keep up with the news about events in Ontario - if so, was she concerned about the murder of Sonia Varaschin in Orangeville (August, 2010)?

Did she talk with you about Sonia's murder - I mean, Audrey's concerns that she also would be "raped and killed in her home"?

Did you try to assist Audrey with securing her house more fully?

Did Audrey comment on the attack of Shelley Loder in Mono (mid-December, 2010)?

Thank you! :)
 
No_Stone_Unturned said:
... Did Audrey comment on the attack of Shelley Loder in Mono (mid-December, 2010)? ...
Click to expand...
<rsbm>

You are right NSU, it seems that AG and Shelley were attacked approx 3 weeks apart. Earlier in the year, Audrey had been trying to arrange a photographer for PK's wedding. Apparently Hartig lost the gig when AG found out that he did not have a back-up camera. As Shelley is also a wedding photographer, I'm wondering if AG had been in touch with her when she was checking out other wedding photographers.

IIRC, PK and AK had ultimately used Eliz.....Kaye as their engagement/wedding photographer. Don't know that we can find any connections in that regard, but i think the wedding photographer angle is a curious coincidence that should be checked into. Can anyone visualize how there might be a connection somehow through photographers?

PK, was AG instrumental in you hiring EK for your photos? Do you know how many photographers she may have contacted in her search? Thanks !!

sb
 
Good point, sillybilly about the wedding photographers. I really wasn't sure what kind of photos Shelley took but I did know she was a photographer.

And you see - once again - I simply cannot get over the timing of all of these murders/attacks. Something in my soul tells me they are related...... From August 2010 to December 2010 we have three women attacked/murdered in the space of less than 100 miles in Southern Ontario? Too much in a small area. And all rural as well.

ETA: For PK and for all of us:

Shelley Loder used the name Shelley Lorraine in her creative photography business!

PK - was E.Kaye associated in any way with Shelley Lorraine? I mean, could Audrey have contacted Shelley Lorraine for your wedding pics?

Thanks!
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

DNASolves

Who is Escambia County John Doe (1989)?

Staff online

Members online

... and 171 more.
Total: 2,930 (members: 172, guests: 2,758)

Online statistics

Members online
172
Guests online
2,758
Total visitors
2,930
Totals may include hidden visitors.

Forum statistics

Threads
599,876
Messages
18,100,645
Members
230,942
Latest member
Patturelli
Back
Top