CANADA Canada - Audrey Gleave, 73, Ancaster ON, 30 Dec 2010 #6

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Who was the friend that related this story to JW re Audrey and her Camaro and her furbabes?

from:
http://www.thespec.com/news/local/article/594717--audrey-s-story-continues

Low-key, reclusive Audrey delighted in taking the dogs — “my puppies” — for a drive, revving up the big engine and turning heads.

She once drove a friend through a quiet neighbourhood in Brantford. An elderly woman on the sidewalk looked on in disgust as the Camaro rumbled past.

Audrey loved it.

Couldn't be PK because he said he had never been in the Camaro :waitasec:
 
Audrey's strict rules for not using her real name in emails might not be so odd..Good, long article in today's paper..

http://www.thestar.com/news/insight...et-trolls-an-online-nightmare-for-young-women
"But it doesn’t even take sexy photos to make women targets of the most explicit sexual violence.

Just having a female username is enough to attract 25 times more threatening and/or sexually explicit private messages than male or gender-ambiguous usernames, according to a 2006 study by the University of Maryland’s A. James Clark School of Engineering.

“Women can write any kind of blog they want about fashion or cooking or parenting and they are not going to get hate comments; those are realms where it is acceptable for women to have opinions,” notes Marwick. “But as soon as they start on politics or other subjects, the amount of hate they get is beyond the pale.”
 
:angel: I think we need a TIMELINE

It is still not clear to me when Audrey went to the Vet's. Why didn't she mention her intention of going to the Vet that afternoon/evening in the email she sent to PK, when she talks about 'cabin fever'?
This is what was first reported:

The one thing I have never been clear on is when AG went to the visit the vet. Reporting on this was not clear. Originally I had the impression that she went to Dudley's after Christmas and he was possibly the last to see her before she was murdered. Subsequently I came to believe that she went a couple of days before Christmas and Dudley was one of the last, but not the last, to see Audrey.

Has anyone confirmed, one way or the other, when she went to Dudley's?
Thanks.
 
Can't help just to say I have heard both things. I suspect before Christmas but I don't know.

Also was LV visit (I think on 26th?) a private visit or were others there? Hopefully LE know lots about her last days from e-mail, phone, computer use, other witness accounts - we don't. By the way do we know the name of first husband?

Her penchant for privacy goes way back just to remind Spectator 17th September 2011
"In first year at McMaster she met Allan Gleave, who was six years her junior and studying engineering. Allan had attended Hill Park Secondary School, his father was a purchasing agent for Firestone, and his uncle, also named Allan, was a Hamilton police officer.

She was also a private woman who volunteered little about her past. Maybe that was because she was older than her peers, or perhaps something had happened to her as a young woman that inspired such caution.

Whatever it was that led Audrey to form a protective shell around herself, it would remain for the rest of her life.

One day, Allan spotted an old elementary school science textbook of Audrey’s. He opened the front cover. There it was, handwritten: Otte Wilma. She had never told him her original name.

He made a mental note about that textbook. It had been an old book, all right, had to be, he reflected, because the element tungsten was still referred to by its old name, wolfram.

Audrey confirmed two previous marriages, but would tell Allan little about them. Allan never asked her much about it. He knew better than to try, she was too private.

She did not tell him she had been just 16 when she first married. That one had not lasted long. The second, in her 20s, was to Larry Blake, who worked at Stelco. They lived on Fairleigh Avenue South.

Even with the secrecy, Allan loved being with Audrey, she was fun and smart. "
 
The one thing I have never been clear on is when AG went to the visit the vet. Reporting on this was not clear. Originally I had the impression that she went to Dudley's after Christmas and he was possibly the last to see her before she was murdered. Subsequently I came to believe that she went a couple of days before Christmas and Dudley was one of the last, but not the last, to see Audrey.

Has anyone confirmed, one way or the other, when she went to Dudley's?
Thanks.

January 5 2011 was when it was initially reported that Audrey visited the vet a couple of days before Christmas:

from:
http://www.thespec.com/news/local/article/309093--friends-remember-audrey-gleave

“They won’t be euthanized,” said Gleave’s veterinarian, Dudley Collins, who knew her for 30 years and last saw her a couple of days before Christmas.

September 19 2011 was when it was reported in Jon Wells' article that she visited the vet the afternoon of December 27:

from:
http://www.thespec.com/news/local/article/594717--audrey-s-story-continues

After Christmas, she felt under the weather. Monday morning, Dec. 27, Audrey emailed Phil and declared she would make her Wednesday coffee meeting come hell or high water. Lynne Vanstone brought her soup.

Monday afternoon she loaded Togi and Schatze into the Camaro and visited veterinarian Dudley Collins in Ancaster to pick up vitamins for the German shepherds. She let the dogs run on his property as usual. She gave him a hug when she left, as she often did.

I am more inclined to rely on JW's relating of the timeline, just because the initial reporting by Nicole O'Reilly may not have been as well researched as Jon Wells' articles 8 months later, after all the intense investigative legwork he seems to have engaged in.

JMO
 
Could be anybody, but I guess only Jon knows who told him that.

Do we know how many people Jon Wells interviewed for his series of articles? Did he speak with LE? Audrey's neighbours?

I don't remember how many people Wells gave credit to in his articles.

Anyone recall?
Thanks......
 
"I am more inclined to rely on JW's relating of the timeline, just because the initial reporting by Nicole O'Reilly may not have been as well researched as Jon Wells' articles 8 months later, after all the intense investigative legwork he seems to have engaged in". (recent post SB)

This is all good - what I am arguing for is that we "bracket" at the same time all of the timeline information, all of the information coming from intimates of Audrey. If the perpetrator is random madman or someone the time of her first marriage or second marriage o.k. then this is unnecessary - remember P.K. assuming it is him said on WS they were putting pressure on those who knew Audrey well. We don't know where loyalties lie - would someone lie slightly to protect a friend (?)- remember they would not have to think they were the perpetrator - they might lie to protect them from the attention of LE. Wells is at the end of it, is still a newspaper reporter and an author of popular true crime - cf. our recent discussion about the source of the Camarro in Brantford story - can't tell from Wells.

Am astonished that with all the dodgy economic elements we are being so trusting those around her - apart from P.K. WL here on WS gave some superb initial analysis of one important document Audrey left behind - and the sale of the house remains to me beyond weird - I know it has been defended here but you would be hard pressed to find another example of this - many of us have experienced probate. Why aren't reporters looking into this? I find the reporting very mediocre maybe better than average, hardly great.

The slightly hyperbolic misreading of my "plot" idea rephrased as "coalitions of evil existing in the world" which doesn't fit with these "nice folk" is dangerous thinking IMO - I mean dangerous if we want to figure this thing out.

The photo of Audrey in the following article is interesting in that it does show Audrey's relative frailness - in other photos of her her grit sort of counterbalances that. Very easy to see how she could be overpowered.

http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Canada/2011/01/03/pf-16748126.html
 
Do we know how many people Jon Wells interviewed for his series of articles? Did he speak with LE? Audrey's neighbours?

I don't remember how many people Wells gave credit to in his articles.

Anyone recall?
Thanks......

Yes my point is contained in your question - it is a news article - we would need to know who is sourced for EACH POINT. Not his fault just the genre.

I do think LE may have tragically fallen for the "nice folk" theory - we saw it in the first day with P.K. being ruled out - I mean I have said I think it is very likely he is not the perpetrator - but that was absurdly early to make a statement like that. And the inverse with the poor guy they did arrest. Towns like A. thrive on this kind of thing, appearances.
 
Quoted from Chorley above:

<<< I do think LE may have tragically fallen for the "nice folk" theory - we saw it in the first day with P.K. being ruled out - I mean I have said I think it is very likely he is not the perpetrator - but that was absurdly early to make a statement like that. And the inverse with the poor guy they did arrest. Towns like A. thrive on this kind of thing, appearances.>>>


If I'm reading this correctly - you are saying that DLS was put through pure hell by LE and so was the young handyman because he was questioned, etc. by LE.

So, again if I'm reading this correctly, are you saying the LE has totally bungled this investigation by looking at two innocent people while the real killer runs free? And I'm certain LE has looked at other innocent people!

Oh dear.......if this is the case........I've completely lost faith in LE and Lady Justice and 'The System'. :bang:

BTW, it's not only towns like Ancaster which depend on "appearances" (in my humble experiences). :truce: Many cold-blooded killers are handsome/pretty with "lovely, normal lives". I'm thinking of Paul Bernardo who escaped LE for a long time as The Scarborough Rapist, Ted Bundy was a handsome lawyer/murderer, OJ was a handsome football player/actor. The list is endless!

Chorley are you suggesting that LE doesn't have a clue about who murdered Audrey Gleave? Oh dear................... should we give up? :bang: Perhaps......

:twocents:
 
Give up? No. Maybe we can make a list of motives. Some of you will be better at this than me so please correct. Some could be combined of course.

1. Sexual motive suspect known to Audrey. (e.g. young and close)
2. Sexual motive anon suspect random attack. (e.g. drifter cemetery lurker etc.)
3. Sexual motive Audrey a choice attacker attracted elderly women. (more specific stalking involved)
4. Rage? not sure if this should be separated out from above.
5. Financial motive single suspect. (e.g. fake will note this could include something we don't know about another will was intended to be brough forward suspect chickened out)
6. Financial motive small plot two or more friends.
7. Financial motive main suspect with bit of help (say with elements of will)
8. Former student some kind of fixation or grudge
9. Something unknown to to do with one of her earlier marriages or other early relationship.
10.Something unknown to do with her family.
11.Something unknown to do with Chalk River
12. Audrey's investigation into someone she knows (e.g. fraud, plagiarism)
13 Audrey's investigation into something general (an organization etc. or major political figure, or doctor with lots to lose)
14. "ritual" groups around graveyard "haunted Hamilton"
15. Unknown theft (something in house hidden money metals)
16. ( as per the first comment attached to SB's recent article) - hate crime.



This isn't very good maybe someone can make it more elegant, add, subtract.
 
Whether this is factual or not, I think we missed this somewhere along the line:

from:
http://www.thespec.com/news/local/article/309093--friends-remember-audrey-gleave

Gleave also met with former Westdale Secondary School colleagues for coffee every Wednesday. She cancelled last Monday, saying she was ill.
<bbm>

This is the same day that she claimed in an email to PK that she had a secondary infection, but went on to say she would make the Weds coffee get-together "come hell or high water".
 
sillybilly, thanks for the reminder. I do recall reading this before. So, Audrey's final coffee group meeting would have been on the Wednesday prior to the one mentioned here.

I'm very sorry to have to say this........but I'm at the point in this case where I really don't know what to believe anymore! :blushing: And I don't know who to believe either.......except you WS'ers who provide the links! (And then, I don't know whether to believe what's in the links!!) :waitasec:
 
sillybilly, thanks for the reminder. I do recall reading this before. So, Audrey's final coffee group meeting would have been on the Wednesday prior to the one mentioned here.

I'm very sorry to have to say this........but I'm at the point in this case where I really don't know what to believe anymore! :blushing: And I don't know who to believe either.......except you WS'ers who provide the links! (And then, I don't know whether to believe what's in the links!!) :waitasec:

Yep ... what to believe, eh? Join the club :)

IF it is true that the coffee group was notifed, was it by phone or by email? IF by email and depending on the timing, then it could be an email sent by a perp. IF it was Audrey herself by phone, then it brings the 10:46 am email to PK into question because she claimed she was going to make that coffee group meeting no matter what.
 
Following is DRAFT TIMELIME. Please forgive lack of formatting

Any suggestions/additions/corrections/deletions are helpful and welcomed


Feb 6 1937 Audrey was born Otte Wilma Dovieka to Antanas (Tony) and Marie Dovieka. Tony was an engineer at Greening Wire Co

1950s ???? Audrey changed her name as a teenager and didn&#8217;t get along with her mother

1953 Audrey married her first husband whose name is unknown

1957 &#8211; 1964 Sometime during these years, in her 20s, Audrey was married to Larry Blake who worked at Stelco. The lived on Fairleigh Av South

1960 Audrey worked at Bell

1964 Audrey enrolled at McMaster University

1964 Audrey met Allan Gleave (Audrey was 27, and Allan 6 yrs her jr, so 21 y.o.)

1964 &#8211; 1967 Sometime during these years, Audrey worked 2 summers at AECL nuclear laboratories in Chalk River

1966 Audrey graduated with a BSc from McMaster and started working on her degree in physics. She did not complete her Masters but would go on to be a high school science teacher, first at Hill Park, later Barton Secondary and then Westdale

1967 Article titled &#8220;Compendium of Thermal Neutron Capture Ray Measurements&#8221; published showing &#8220;A. Doveika&#8221; as one of the authors

Aug 1967 Audrey was featured in Hamilton newspaper re building her own tv. The picture showed a wedding ring on her finger which she supposedly wore even when single

1969 Audrey and Allan married at Salvation Army Chapel on James St North. Allan&#8217;s mother Marjorie threw a party for them. They lived for a while with Allan&#8217;s parents. Early in their marriage, Allan and Audrey lived on Alma Lane in Ancaster, then built a big home on Indian Trail, which Allan designed. Allan&#8217;s brother, David, was a pilot and flew the two of them up north into the bush to camp for a week. They travelled to Europe for three weeks. She talked about having kids.

1974 Marriage to Allan fell apart. Allan met a younger woman at his karate class. He signed the house over to Audrey. He took a job as a chemical engineer in Sturgeon Falls. He and his new wife never had kids.

1976 Allan&#8217;s father died. Audrey attended the funeral and chatted briefly with Allan. Although Allan had made prior trips to Hamilton each year to visit his parents, it was the last time Audrey and Allan ever spoke, although she maintained contact with his brother David G.

1980 Approx year that Audrey met Lyn V, and veterinarian Dr. Collins

1994 Dr. Collins retired

2001 Allan Gleave retired

2003 DLS caused a disturbance in a Henry Street coffee shop when he pulled a steak knife he had concealed in his clothes. A patron talked him into trading the knife for a cigarette. When police arrived, Scott yelled obscenities at them.

2004 Approximate year that PK met Audrey while he worked at Windmill Power Equipment in Dundas (number of years PK says he knew Audrey has varied in different reports, so this year is not confirmed)

2006 Audrey retired

Feb 3 2007 Audrey's Last Will and Testament signed and witnessed at Brantford, Ontario

May 2010 Q Restaurant opened. This is where AK worked prior to acquiring SavingT in 2012

June 2010 PK and AT married

Nov 2010 Approx mid to late November, Audrey's mailbox was smashed

Nov 2010 Approx time Audrey had new convection installed

Dec 22 2010 Audrey attended her weekly coffee meeting with former colleagues

Dec 23 &#8211; 25
2010 Sometime during these days, PK received email from Audrey that she was ill.

Dec 23 &#8211; 25
2010 Approx dates that initial reports said Dr. Dudley Collins had seen Audrey &#8220;a couple of days before Christmas&#8221;

Dec 25 2010 PK says he spoke with Audrey by phone and they rescheduled the delivery of the cake to Thursday, December 30. He says Audrey had stayed home all day.

Dec 26 2010 Audrey attended dinner at Lyn V&#8217;s home. Audrey normally went there every Sunday for coffee around 9:30 am

Dec 27 2010 early morning, PK opened his email and received email from Audrey that included the link to the Amazing Grace video

Dec 27 2010 PK received another email from Audrey timed 10:46 am re &#8220;secondary infection &#8230; cabin fever &#8230; LV bringing soup in a few minutes &#8230; coffee meeting come hell or high water &#8230;&#8221;

Dec 27 2010 According to at least one report, today Audrey cancelled her Wednesday coffee meeting because she was ill

Dec 27 2010 It is reported that Audrey visited the vet that afternoon with her 2 dogs. This date/time conflicts with initial reports that Dr. Collins saw her a couple of days before Christmas

Dec 27 2010 Audrey&#8217;s neighbour read or received email from Audrey that included the link to the Amazing Grace video

Dec 29 2010 DLS released from Brantford after serving 40 days for a weapons charge. He was also arrested this day when found with a knife in his waistband as he visited the washroom of his bank ???

Dec 30 2010 PK drove AK to work that morning. Called Audrey to say he would be late delivering the cake. Arrived approx 11:00 am, let himself into garage and discovered Audrey's body. Called 911 and waited for police to arrive.

Dec 30 2010 approx 4:00 pm Thurs afternoon, DLS was arrested at a laundromat near Colborne St in Brantford

Dec 31 2010 Autopsy began

Dec 31 2010 DLS appeared in court, facing first degree murder charges

Jan 2 2011 Police search begins at abandoned barn and property on Lynden Rd where DLS was known to live

Jan 4 2011 Police released the crime scene at Audrey&#8217;s home. Friends and a cleanup crew spent the day cleaning out her home.

Jan 4 2011 Police also released the Lynden farmhouse scene where DLS lived

Jan 4 2011 Vigil held for Audrey at United Church, Governor&#8217;s Road, Ancaster

Jan 5 2011 Memorial Service held at 11 a.m. Wednesday at the Beckett-Glaves Family Funeral Centre on Brant Avenue in Brantford.

Jan 28 2011 &#8220;Application for Certificate of Appointment of Estate Trustee with a Will&#8221; signed by LV, listing personal property of $50,622.87 and real estate at $425,000

Feb 3 2011 DLS appeared in Brantford court to answer charges of carrying a large hunting knife concealed in his waistband and breaching probation orders. He had been in jail for 36 days and was sentenced to an additional 10 days.

Feb 22 2011 &#8220;Certificate of Appointment of Trustee&#8221; signed by Registrar

Feb 2011 Sale of Audrey's home was completed (iirc, end of February ??)

June 3 2011 Charges withdrawn against DLS due to forensic evidence not matching

August 2011 PK was administered polygraph

Sept 2011 LE met with PK to address discrepancies in his polygraph

Nov 14 2011 Registrar signed &#8220;Certificate of Official Document&#8221; attaching a true copy of the &#8220;Certificate of Appointment of Trustee with a Will&#8221; stating that the document remains in full force and effect

Jul 21 2012 Dr. Collins passed away
 
:goodpost: :websleuther: :goodpost: :websleuther: :goodpost:

-------------------------

ETA:

WOW, one day after Audrey's body was found poor DLS was facing murder charges. He was certainly set up, I'd say. As always, I could be very wrong about that.
 
....
The slightly hyperbolic misreading of my "plot" idea rephrased as "coalitions of evil existing in the world" which doesn't fit with these "nice folk" is dangerous thinking IMO - I mean dangerous if we want to figure this thing out.
http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Canada/2011/01/03/pf-16748126.html

Apologies, Chorley: I didn't mean to "misread" your post or to exaggerate its implications; I used the expression "coalition of evil" for your suggestion that there could be a "deadly conspiracy" among these parties because the expression seemed fit, to me -- that is, if there's a "deadly conspiracy". I didn't mean fro my expression to overdetermine your idea :)

In my verbage, I wrote "normal seeming folk" rather than "nice folk" as quoted -- expressly with "normal"alone in quotation marks to hold the term under some erasure; I agree wholly with you that we can never be naive about who walks among us or what individuals or groups are capable of accomplishing. The "normal" folk behind any next door sometimes do turn out to be what we might never will to imagine. I was just trying to say that, for me, it is hard to think there is a cluster of villains capable of this magnitude of violence without cracking, all located in some reasonable proximity. If the motive really IS economic, it's just difficult for me to imagine that these folks aren't exhibiting signs of guilt or remorse or other indicators of complicity -- fear/suspicion of each other. I'm not saying it's not possible, but it's not a theory to which I, at least, subscribe. But I mean no disrespect to you in my reply; I appreciate that we are all here to theorize for justice. The more diverse ideas we have, the more our possibilities. If any of these theories are right, I hope LE is on it.

MOO.
 
wow, SillyBilly: the timeline you posted is incredibly comprehensive. Thank you for such effort! That's really helpful in thinking through events and implications -- to see contexts at a glance.
 
:goodpost: :websleuther: :goodpost: :websleuther: :goodpost:

-------------------------

ETA:

WOW, one day after Audrey's body was found poor DLS was facing murder charges. He was certainly set up, I'd say. As always, I could be very wrong about that.

Well that is the depressing possibility that maybe you are the first to have the courage to say.

Plot: I was just raising the possibility I believe it was presented as a question - it is not a pet theory- unsolved case, we don't need to slam doors of enquiry too quickly - hence my list, it might be interesting to see what we can really and truly discard and what keep open to explore. (My questions about dogs, about whether perp from remote past presents equally difficult problem not answered but that's ok). We don't even know if some of these people knew each other. Note that the claim "only I was allowed inside" COULD serve to distance that person from others, "don't know them". All of the commentators that knew Audrey seem to be autocelic cells. Yet as I noted recently vet and LV both knew Audrey they said "30 years", both LV and the F's call describe her as a recluse or a hermit - I sense communication, communal typecasting of Audrey not just by media.

Feeling that Audrey is being monitored, watched, sense they know more about her than is possible from the purview of the garage bench and maybe Audrey's habits rule response to intrusiveness. Recent article I posted re Audrey's privacy concerns - they seem to date back 40 or 50 years yet few posit an octagenarian rage killer. Could be hired I guess really doubt it though. Doubt, but not 100% that P.K. could have been hired and not by Audrey only from Windmill - to get an inside view - due to cooincidence of mutual interest in science, overlapping links to Mac and Brantford not all of which we can establish publicly perhaps here have to think about it and check rules - unlikely to be coincidence, could be.

I think 2SoccerMom's post on whether Audrey's near paranoid watchfulness could be mostly restricted to online is a very interesting line of enquiry - pointing out that she was hardly invisible socially etc. yet strictures on Bary name, computer interests - interest in handwriting might go beyond that though.

Guilty: as I wrote on previous thread story about missing mailbox part = missing part of Audrey I listed about 15 linguistic elements - I see lots of signs of remorse, guilt, knowledge (but not necessary culpability).

Adding: last sighting of Audrey I am comfortable with is coffee klatch 22 or 23rd of Dec. sorry just forgot this minute which it is - everything else suspect.
 
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