CANADA Canada - Audrey Gleave, 73, Ancaster ON, 30 Dec 2010 #7

[Chorley8]

Occurred to me that the murder in the garage itself could be a clue.

First of all none of us strangely has suggested well at least I do not remember that Audrey could have been killed during one of her sit-outs in the garage. Can anyone run with this and see if it could fit with the EXACT location of her body? Seems her body was on the OPPOSITE side from the bench? One guess argument on bench Audrey a little freaked out says I am going out in my car per follows blow to head. Dogs: now a clue someone who did not like the dogs coming up to them still why caged not just in the house?

Coat on: garage still chilly if sitting out for a while in winter.

Hypothesis: perp knew Audrey let nobody in her house except P.K. so murder in the house would be a problem.

Hypothesis: LE idea of a lone drifter type means they do not check the house for fingerprints there should of course be VERY few sets of fingerprints basically Audrey P.K. the guy installing the oven etc. Huge error by LE here though I don't know perhaps they did do this.

I think two components (probably I do not know enough about the injuries) 1. blow on head to kill or knock out 2. rage shown with subsequent injuries.

"Lynn is coming over in a little while with soup" - that email is huge.

Need for a new Spectator article this time gently prodding LV and Audrey's friends P.K. coffee klatch the photographer the ex-husband - I think Wells articles are fine but really on the surface - time for some hard questioning somebody might remember something we know nothing about and old friend, flame, whatever.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Occurred to me that the murder in the garage itself could be a clue.

First of all none of us strangely has suggested well at least I do not remember that Audrey could have been killed during one of her sit-outs in the garage. Can anyone run with this and see if it could fit with the EXACT location of her body? Seems her body was on the OPPOSITE side from the bench? One guess argument on bench Audrey a little freaked out says I am going out in my car per follows blow to head. Dogs: now a clue someone who did not like the dogs coming up to them still why caged not just in the house?

Coat on: garage still chilly if sitting out for a while in winter.

Hypothesis: perp knew Audrey let nobody in her house except P.K. so murder in the house would be a problem.

Hypothesis: LE idea of a lone drifter type means they do not check the house for fingerprints there should of course be VERY few sets of fingerprints basically Audrey P.K. the guy installing the oven etc. Huge error by LE here though I don't know perhaps they did do this.

I think two components (probably I do not know enough about the injuries) 1. blow on head to kill or knock out 2. rage shown with subsequent injuries.

"Lynn is coming over in a little while with soup" - that email is huge.

Need for a new Spectator article this time gently prodding LV and Audrey's friends P.K. coffee klatch the photographer the ex-husband - I think Wells articles are fine but really on the surface - time for some hard questioning somebody might remember something we know nothing about and old friend, flame, whatever.

I understood from the beginning that AG was killed in the garage. But: why was told on any spot that in the house was a lot of blood?? I don't understand all the time.
IF she was killed in the garage it is a little unimportant where exactly the dogs had been in the house. IF the offender/s enter the house then it is very important.
I can't imagine the interior of the garage and can't have a say, unfortunately.
Speaking of the (delivered???) soup: When I select as an older human who is to inherit I would also choose who will care for me in a sickness and nursing case and how it is paid. Was there perhaps an available and may be gone?
There are so many questions and there are certainly people who could ask - if anyone would do it anyway.

 

[dotr]

Wondering about the soup and if Audrey or at least the dogs had a chance to eat any of it,did they suffer hot fluid burns or scalding?

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Another theory, all my considerations:

IF Audrey's EX was visiting (around Christmas every year with his parents) he was sure even in the garage like other people (dogs, untidiness etc.). Maybe there was a conversation about who later the (by him designed) house would inherit. Maybe there was also the very first conversation about a child (HIS child) that Audrey got without his knowledge and then gave up for adoption. Maybe it has so horrified that he had hurt her bad.
Unclear to me is in this case only instrumentalities which he had so suddenly.
IF Audrey's EX was visiting (and the offender) I understand why he has only spoken a few months after the murder about how huge the trees were grown (and not about the horrific death and the lack of education).

 

[Chorley8]

This from "FromGermany":

"IF Audrey's EX was visiting (and the offender) I understand why he has only spoken a few months after the murder about how huge the trees were grown (and not about the horrific death"

Very good point thanks FromGermany. Our problem or one of them is that everyone seems to be indifferent and callous to Audrey so we are dealing with a veritable Murder on the Orient Express of universal uniform disdain for Audrey - yet oddly on this forum everyone seems to quite like her..........and she wasn't without friends - very odd.

If the ex visited Audrey I don't think we know about it and it would be very interesting since the ex claims he had not seen her since a funeral X number of years before - can't check now but I think at least 20 years.

Your point about the dogs and the house: this could actually help us to narrow the list of suspects. It would have to be:
1. Someone who had enough clout with Audrey to ask her please could you please cage the dogs but who was not relatively comfortable with them say like P.K.
2. Just a scenario but Audrey then goes to cage her dogs and fetch her coat she is attacked coming back into the garage.
3. There has to be something in the house of interest which I and others have suggested before there could be....the perp wants to get into the house for copy of other will, incriminating papers, money, gold or metals really anything.
4. I know nothing about a pool of blood in the house can you clarify FromGermany or can someone else clarify either or both thanks.

 

[Pink Panther]

I have never read that a pool of blood was found inside the house.

I lean toward Audrey having left her house (without the dogs) to have a smoke in the garage and someone was already there...

I believe that she knew this person and that they had a discussion of sorts before she was assaulted.

Of course, I know next to nothing about this crime because, despite not being able to solve it, LE is choosing not to release any relevant information to the public.

MOO

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Wondering about the soup and if Audrey or at least the dogs had a chance to eat any of it,did they suffer hot fluid burns or scalding?

Sorry for the joke, but maybe we should look for a murderer with scaldings around the mouth? :floorlaugh:

 

[dotr]

One reason for Audrey to crate or put her dogs aside, is if the perp also was with a dog.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

This from "FromGermany":

"IF Audrey's EX was visiting (and the offender) I understand why he has only spoken a few months after the murder about how huge the trees were grown (and not about the horrific death"

Correct: IF Audrey's EX (the offender) was visiting I understand ...........
Sorry, expressed wrong before (also due to translation etc.).

[If the ex visited Audrey I don't think we know about it and it would be very interesting since the ex claims he had not seen her since a funeral X number of years before - can't check now but I think at least 20 years.[/QUOTE]

Yes, I think it would be very interesting wether it is true that the ex hadn't visit during all the years.

[4. I know nothing about a pool of blood in the house can you clarify FromGermany or can someone else clarify either or both thanks.[/QUOTE]

I will try to find it! Had been statements in WS.

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

For some unknown reason, *I* feel that Audrey was murdered either inside her house OR elsewhere.

Questions and thoughts about that:

1. Didn't PK walk through the house with LE? If so, we don't know if there was blood found in the house.

2. Would blunt force trauma to the head cause death immediately? If so, then possibly AG was killed inside the garage. BUT......if the blunt force trauma killed her, WHY the multiple stabbings and "sexual component"?

3. IF the murder took place inside the garage, wouldn't there be some indications on the pristine white car? Blood, thrashing about, fingerprints, something?

My only problem with all of this is why AG was wearing a coat and shoes. Were these itiems placed on the body after death?

Another problem......WHY is LE so silent about this killing? And the SV and SL situations as well........ There must be a reason for this deafening silence!

:twocents:

 

[Dee10]

Interesting article: http://www.thespec.com/news-story/2182849-police-investigating-ancaster-area-homicide/

Gleave was stabbed multiple times. Investigators believe there was a “sexual component” and that she didn’t know her attacker or attackers. “In the last 10 years I can’t think of one more vicious,” he said, later adding that the case stands out in the top 1 per cent.

Gleave was stabbed multiple times. Investigators believe there was a “sexual component” and that she didn’t know her attacker or attackers.

The last time he spoke with his ex-wife was at his father’s funeral in Hamilton in 1976.

No neighbours reported seeing or hearing anything suspicious over the past few days. But the Fergusons’ dogs suddenly began barking wildly around 2:30 a.m. Wednesday.

OPP loaded what neighbours said was Gleave’s white Camaro onto a truck and removed it from the scene. At first, police told them everything was OK, Bird said, but now they are telling people to be vigilant.

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

^^^^^^^^^ But where did I get the notion that there was no forced entry and AG knew her killer?

:blushing:

 

[dotr]

Sorry for the joke, but maybe we should look for a murderer with scaldings around the mouth? :floorlaugh:

That would be funny if the murderer had a taste of their own medicine, but I was thinking along the lines of Audrey or her dogs having hot soup thrown at them.
The dogs had been examined by authorities, wonder what LE was specifically looking for and what, if anything was found.

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

How do we know for certain that the soup was ever delivered? And did LE have the body long enough to do stomach contents tests as well as tox testing?

We're still missing s key part to this puzzle..........


:coffeecup:

 

[Woodland]

Interesting article: http://www.thespec.com/news-story/2182849-police-investigating-ancaster-area-homicide/

All of the highlights you have shown Dee10 in your post #631 were early in the investigation and have been subsequently updated to the killer was known to AG and no one has been ruled out.

 

[Woodland]

How do we know for certain that the soup was ever delivered? And did LE have the body long enough to do stomach contents tests as well as tox testing?

We're still missing s key part to this puzzle..........


:coffeecup:

Re-confirmation in LV's words that she delivered the soup was covered pretty recently.

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

Possible Reasons SL, SV and AG Crimes Not Solved:

1. The perp is dead.

2. The perp is in jail.

3. The perp is hiding out in a faraway land - Timbuktu?

4. The perp is really sly, cunning and he's sitting here right in front of LE's face.

Wouldn't you think that at least ONE of these crimes would be solved by now?

:stormingmad:

 

[Deleted member 102539]

That would be funny if the murderer had a taste of their own medicine, but I was thinking along the lines of Audrey or her dogs having hot soup thrown at them.
The dogs had been examined by authorities, wonder what LE was specifically looking for and what, if anything was found.

1. You do not know where the soup was. PK has said nothing of the soup or an empty pot (when he wrote of the discovery).
2. IF soup then you do not know wether it was (still) hot.
3. If AG had been scalded with soup then LE surely first would have let announced.
4. If you had doused the dogs with the hot soup then you have made them more aggressive, probably not more.
5. For all 3 the soup pot would probably not enough to scald. It could have been thoroughly frightened only.
6. I do not know if there may be coincidence to someone that provides soup and another uses this soup for an attack.
7. Who provided the soup will not be so stupid and use for attack - that would be almost a confession.

That is what I think about.

 

[dotr]

Possible Reasons SL, SV and AG Crimes Not Solved:

1. The perp is dead.

2. The perp is in jail.

3. The perp is hiding out in a faraway land - Timbuktu?

4. The perp is really sly, cunning and he's sitting here right in front of LE's face.

Wouldn't you think that at least ONE of these crimes would be solved by now?

:stormingmad:

Maybe they are keeping an eye out for this guy and some of the others in his "class photos"..

http://www.ottawasun.com/2011/07/21/drifter-hunted-in-teen-girls-slaying
http://www.calgaryherald.com/news/c...ts+murder+attempted+murder/6806866/story.html

 

[Deleted member 102539]

When looking for a statement about "blood in the home" I found this:

Thread #2, PK, post 425
"When I raised the door (garage) I saw Audrey lying on the floor............."

Thread #2, PK, post 582
"I did not go inside the house (with LE) .............."
_________________________________________________
What we should perhaps note:
PK wrote in the same post 582:
"I do find the timing of the vet visit to be an interesting open question ..."

Especially to NSU: "The perp is dead" would then fit?
_________________________________________________
The "blood in the home" I have not found yet. I remember that it was mentioned in connection with the cleaning action. I wondered and thought that I had probably not perfectly fitted and felt overwhelmed with all the information.