Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #10

[MistyWaters]

Did the killers expect to murder both or just one of the Shermans?
Did the perps bring sufficient "tools"/ligatures for two, or were they forced to improvise by tying H and B's wrists together?
BS's own belt was used to hold him up, but it is unknown where the belt found with HS originated, did they only bring one belt?
Was the pm hanging a last minute "flourish" along with the straightened glasses- like unnecessarily adding to an already completed snowman?
speculation, imo.

If the crime scene was staged to appear as though Barry took his life by hanging by a belt, it would be more believable if he used his own belt. After the two victims were dead, the killer/s would have ample opportunity to take anything that was brought into the home with him again. Things such as duct tape, bindings, a gun would easily fit in most baggy winter coat pockets. By the reference to “targeted” double homicide, TPS seem to have evidence the crime was beyond spontaneous so just my opinion, nothing was improvised.

 

[Lexiintoronto]

Just listened to the podcast. I could almost feel Warmington smiling when he said there would likely be arrests in 2019, and that the police have four or five suspects!

Warmington, also sounds like he is pretty positive it was a double murder, not a murder/suicide. Now he did cage his bets by saying 'If this was a murder'.

Interesting too was the fact, the publisher of his paper Paul Godfrey, who was friends with the Sherman's did not believe the M/S explanation. For those who point to M/S and a family and friends cover-up, they can use that as proof.

Very interesting to say the least.

Rbbm
*If* this was murder.

Could the arrests he sees coming for 2019 be for something related to the Shermans, but not specifically their murder.

Like when they charge someone in the mob for wire fraud, or lessor charges because they can’t prove a bigger charge.

 

[ldlager]

Did the killers expect to murder both or just one of the Shermans?
Did the perps bring sufficient "tools"/ligatures for two, or were they forced to improvise by tying H and B's wrists together?
BS's own belt was used to hold him up, but it is unknown where the belt found with HS originated, did they only bring one belt?
Was the pm hanging a last minute "flourish" along with the straightened glasses- like unnecessarily adding to an already completed snowman?
speculation, imo.

Dotr maybe I’ve read too many reports on this crime, but I don’t recall that it has been confirmed that Barry’s belt was used to suspend him, only that it was reported that Barry didn’t have a belt on his pants when found. Can anyone recall if that is accurate, I’m sure someone here remembers. Thanks

 

[MistyWaters]

Rbbm
*If* this was murder.

Could the arrests he sees coming for 2019 be for something related to the Shermans, but not specifically their murder.

Like when they charge someone in the mob for wire fraud, or lessor charges because they can’t prove a bigger charge.

The entire podcast is 18 minutes long and Warmington is answering questions put to him by the host. His reply “I think you’re going to see an arrest......” was in response to the question “where are we at with regards to the murder of Barry and Honey Sherman?”

His reference to IF in my opinion still originates from Warmington’s unsolved mystery, and he talks about it in the podcast again, that he had an inside source and was running with a story about “an execution” and so he decided to confirm his story with TPS and he was told it was m/s.

 

[MistyWaters]

Dotr maybe I’ve read too many reports on this crime, but I don’t recall that it has been confirmed that Barry’s belt was used to suspend him, only that it was reported that Barry didn’t have a belt on his pants when found. Can anyone recall if that is accurate, I’m sure someone here remembers. Thanks

Here’s one
“Both were facing away from the water and fully clothed, although one of the belts seemed to have been taken from Barry’s trousers.”
Bloomberg - Are you a robot?

 

[ldlager]

I wondered, was his point to cast suspicion on the family for not checking up on their parents daily....or was it an opportunity for Warmington to express that he and his family has reason to be concerned over his personal safety?

It could be either.

Imo I think his inference was pretty clear. I think he threw the kids/family directly into the “suspect” mix.

 

[William_60]

Very interesting- thank you, dotr!

At around the 14:00 minute mark, Warmington said the ‘bodies were not in the house, they were in an indoor pool attached to the home’ (quote not verbatim).

ETA: I’m hoping Warmington is dropping a hint. It may be technically true if the killer has stated they’ve never been in the home.

If I could, I'd buy dotr a large Tim's Dark Roast and a choice donut.

The podcast was that good, the timing even better.

Thanks, dotr!

 

[ldlager]

Here’s one
“Both were facing away from the water and fully clothed, although one of the belts seemed to have been taken from Barry’s trousers.”
Bloomberg - Are you a robot?

Thank you Misty. You sure have things/info at your fingertips! FWIW the reference doesn’t say which body the belt supposedly from Barry was actually holding up. Not that it matters probably.

 

[William_60]

Very interesting- thank you, dotr!

At around the 14:00 minute mark, Warmington said the ‘bodies were not in the house, they were in an indoor pool attached to the home’ (quote not verbatim).

ETA: I’m hoping Warmington is dropping a hint. It may be technically true if the killer has stated they’ve never been in the home.

Like the train of thought, but that would blow up my vision of Honey being confronted as she came in the front door...which might be okay, because...we don't know if she did enter from the front door, do we?

 

[William_60]

Thank you Misty. You sure have things/info at your fingertips! FWIW the reference doesn’t say which body the belt supposedly from Barry was actually holding up. Not that it matters probably.

Did the assailants bring anything with them to commit the murders or not?

The second belt (I assume was plucked from another room).

The wire or rope or whatever it was that caused death, was this brought by the perps to the house or something they grabbed while in it?

 

[MistyWaters]

Thank you Misty. You sure have things/info at your fingertips! FWIW the reference doesn’t say which body the belt supposedly from Barry was actually holding up. Not that it matters probably.

You’re welcome. His own belt used is also mentioned elsewhere but that was the first google search I found.

 

[MistyWaters]

Did the assailants bring anything with them to commit the murders or not?

The second belt (I assume was plucked from another room).

The wire or rope or whatever it was that caused death, was this brought by the perps to the house or found in it?

We don’t know as LE has never said what the investigation has revealed.

 

[William_60]

We don’t know as LE has never said what the investigation has revealed.

Just read ldlagers post from 7:31 this evening; I have to rethink my off-on belief the perps arrived weaponless.

 

[MistyWaters]

Like the train of thought, but that would blow up my vision of Honey being confronted as she came in the front door...which might be okay, because...we don't know if she did enter from the front door, do we?

He was referring to where the bodies were discovered. I believe from maps that have been posted here, the poolroom is attached to the garage in what’s considered the basement area.

 

[MistyWaters]

Just ldlagers post from 7:31 this evening; I have to rethink my off-on belief the perps arrived weaponless.

IMO, a targeted double homicide indicates there’s evidence of preplanning and preparation.

 

[MistyWaters]

Imo I think his inference was pretty clear. I think he threw the kids/family directly into the “suspect” mix.

Well he also thinks -
“it was very personal though, the way the murders happened. They were strangled and staged, or meant to be found that way.....<>.....it seemed very personal to me, I think it was someone who had great animus towards the family.”

 

[William_60]

I wondered, was his point to cast suspicion on the family for not checking up on their parents daily....or was it an opportunity for Warmington to express that he and his family has reason to be concerned over his personal safety?

It could be either.

I think Warmington meant it was odd for family (the most) but also colleagues to allow that much time to slide by without a word from Barry.

It's a long time to accept silence from two people so active professionally and socially, IMO.

 

[MistyWaters]

I think Warmington meant it was odd for family (the most) but also colleagues to allow that much time to slide by without a word from Barry.

It's a long time to accept silence from two people so active professionally and socially, IMO.

I think we’d have to know other things such as did the killer use one of their cellphones to impersonate either of them? What were their plans for that Thursday? We don’t know because nobody’s talking.

But I have to say I don’t know anyone who’s adult children checks up on independent and healthy adult parents every two hours, or even daily for that matter without there being a very good reason to do so. So I’m more curious about Warmington’s comment pertaining to his family’s concern for him.

 

[deugirtni]

I think we’d have to know other things such as did the killer use one of their cellphones to impersonate either of them? What were their plans for that Thursday? We don’t know because nobody’s talking.

But I have to say I don’t know anyone who’s adult children checks up on independent and healthy adult parents every two hours, or even daily for that matter without there being a very good reason to do so. So I’m more curious about Warmington’s comment pertaining to his family’s concern for him.

Agreed. I could see if the adult kids were still living under the same roof (which who knows, may be the case with Warmington??)... an I could see if it was only ONE parent that was not heard from/unreachable.. but when it is a long married couple who together aren't heard from - so what? I think it's one of those things where, when you look back, after the fact, you think to yourself, jeez, I should have known something was wrong, or I should have checked into it more, or something... but at the time, in reality.. it was only Wed evening... Thursday.. and earlier on Fri morning.. so basically only one day (Thursday) that it may have been out of the ordinary not to have heard anything... but then with so many groups.. like the kids, the work, the volunteer/charity stuff, the friends.... each one of those groups wouldn't have necessarily known that another one of those groups was perhaps wondering same thing, and each could have thought the couple were busy with one of the other sets of people.

 

[William_60]

Agreed. I could see if the adult kids were still living under the same roof (which who knows, may be the case with Warmington??)... an I could see if it was only ONE parent that was not heard from/unreachable.. but when it is a long married couple who together aren't heard from - so what? I think it's one of those things where, when you look back, after the fact, you think to yourself, jeez, I should have known something was wrong, or I should have checked into it more, or something... but at the time, in reality.. it was only Wed evening... Thursday.. and earlier on Fri morning.. so basically only one day (Thursday) that it may have been out of the ordinary not to have heard anything... but then with so many groups.. like the kids, the work, the volunteer/charity stuff, the friends.... each one of those groups wouldn't have necessarily known that another one of those groups was perhaps wondering same thing, and each could have thought the couple were busy with one of the other sets of people.

That's why I focus on colleagues; maybe Joe is throwin' some shade around, some misdirection.

Joe W. aside, how could Barry's going dark all of Thursday happen without a flag being triggered?

Maybe he went off radar like this occasionally, but it's not a fit for the impression I have of him, and a planned vacation/office absence was just days away...