Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #15

[dotr]

Thank you dotr, yes that’s the one I was referring to KDs comments @ about 4:40. I thought you’d posted this already....hey you must be slipping (only joking!!!)

Something else in that interview, KD doesn’t expect the SCC ruling until “later this year”. How late is later this year I wonder, could be several months.

It was posted, found this one (already posted bm.)too fwiw..
Feb 17, 2021

 

[Bobbi Pearl]

I am new to this site but have followed this case since it happened.

A few things, some that have been briefly introduced and have gone silent without answers or more attention, or reports that make other reports no longer make logical sense. Many of these questions came after reading the Kevin Donovan book.

• Why look in the gutter/drain out front of the home the first week – this was still when it was considered murder suicide? They checked the roof as well, why if they are thinking murder suicide - Maybe police let media make an assumption and did not correct it to allow early interviewees to feel relaxed during questioning?

• Who knew the pool area was not used much, who knew how to get into that room – a special button was described – is this in plain view?

• Recent painting was done in a room – was it in the basement? a window was left open to vent the room – who and when did they paint – a window was now open for 3+ days – in snowstorms?
  
• cleaning was underway on the main floor and 2nd floor hours before bodies were found, how much evidence was destroyed and altered?

• Where is the furnace – on the Friday it is said the furnace repairman was there, who called him and why, this was a very cold and snowy time, was the furnace not working? He is mentioned being in the house but he did not go to the basement?

• Was anyone in the home on Thursday – I read years ago that a cleaning lady came in and cleaned on Thursday but did not go downstairs but cannot find that article. Later articles state that no one was to be in the home on Thursday.

• Car in the driveway on Thursday. Who was the individual going to the door a number of times over 45 min interval on the Thursday. – Did they enter the home or only knock on the door. Did this person make any cell calls from the driveway – call Honey or someone else? check cell towers for all cellular activity during a certain timeframe?

• The virtual real estate visit, where were the people viewing from – what country – did they view the entire home – including the pool area?

• Was the pool covered? It is reported it was green and had not been used in a long time, did the pool room have an algae odor from the green water?

• All this talk about needing $$ to pay off an APOTEX debt? Is that really why Jonathon and Adam are asked to repay loans 2 weeks before the murders? Why would SherFam $$ be used to pay off APOTEX debt? - B+H just had a meeting to spend 30 mil on a new home, the recent discussions with friends was that Honey will be coming into hundreds of millions, all at a time when JS states they were in a bad financial state and they needed to find another financier.

• Where was Adam during this time? Why was it so important for Jonathon to have Adam included in all things that related to money.

• If this was an APOTEX-related hit, (hired hit) why kill both – Barry could have easily been taken out before he entered his home, same for Honey if she was the target and was attacked/restrained an hour? before Barry arrived why wait for him?

• If it was a APOTEX hit would they not go after his business partner Jay as well, why just Barry?

• do we even know if Honey was still alive when Barry arrived home?

• The 911 call, what was the emergency they were called for? It was the police who came, not ambulance or fire, so assume it was not a health-related call for help? where did it originate from a cell phone or a land line? Did the call come in on Wed night or on Thursday morning? Did Honey's cell phone (found by cleaning lady Friday morning on main floor powder room floor) have 911 dialed as a last call?

Understanding that none of us have the answers to these questions but if one person can think of all these questions just imagine how much information must be accumulating with the TPS and this investigation.

BobbiPearl

 

[ldlager]

I am new to this site but have followed this case since it happened.

A few things, some that have been briefly introduced and have gone silent without answers or more attention, or reports that make other reports no longer make logical sense. Many of these questions came after reading the Kevin Donovan book.

• Why look in the gutter/drain out front of the home the first week – this was still when it was considered murder suicide? They checked the roof as well, why if they are thinking murder suicide - Maybe police let media make an assumption and did not correct it to allow early interviewees to feel relaxed during questioning?

• Who knew the pool area was not used much, who knew how to get into that room – a special button was described – is this in plain view?

• Recent painting was done in a room – was it in the basement? a window was left open to vent the room – who and when did they paint – a window was now open for 3+ days – in snowstorms?
• cleaning was underway on the main floor and 2nd floor hours before bodies were found, how much evidence was destroyed and altered?

• Where is the furnace – on the Friday it is said the furnace repairman was there, who called him and why, this was a very cold and snowy time, was the furnace not working? He is mentioned being in the house but he did not go to the basement?

• Was anyone in the home on Thursday – I read years ago that a cleaning lady came in and cleaned on Thursday but did not go downstairs but cannot find that article. Later articles state that no one was to be in the home on Thursday.

• Car in the driveway on Thursday. Who was the individual going to the door a number of times over 45 min interval on the Thursday. – Did they enter the home or only knock on the door. Did this person make any cell calls from the driveway – call Honey or someone else? check cell towers for all cellular activity during a certain timeframe?

• The virtual real estate visit, where were the people viewing from – what country – did they view the entire home – including the pool area?

• Was the pool covered? It is reported it was green and had not been used in a long time, did the pool room have an algae odor from the green water?

• All this talk about needing $$ to pay off an APOTEX debt? Is that really why Jonathon and Adam are asked to repay loans 2 weeks before the murders? Why would SherFam $$ be used to pay off APOTEX debt? - B+H just had a meeting to spend 30 mil on a new home, the recent discussions with friends was that Honey will be coming into hundreds of millions, all at a time when JS states they were in a bad financial state and they needed to find another financier.

• Where was Adam during this time? Why was it so important for Jonathon to have Adam included in all things that related to money.

• If this was an APOTEX-related hit, (hired hit) why kill both – Barry could have easily been taken out before he entered his home, same for Honey if she was the target and was attacked/restrained an hour? before Barry arrived why wait for him?

• If it was a APOTEX hit would they not go after his business partner Jay as well, why just Barry?

• do we even know if Honey was still alive when Barry arrived home?

• The 911 call, what was the emergency they were called for? It was the police who came, not ambulance or fire, so assume it was not a health-related call for help? where did it originate from a cell phone or a land line? Did the call come in on Wed night or on Thursday morning? Did Honey's cell phone (found by cleaning lady Friday morning on main floor powder room floor) have 911 dialed as a last call?

Understanding that none of us have the answers to these questions but if one person can think of all these questions just imagine how much information must be accumulating with the TPS and this investigation.

BobbiPearl

Welcome Bobbi. I can answer a couple of your questions quickly:
- button to the pool room was in plain view in the hallway outside the pool room door
- painting with open window was in the basement. I don’t know how long it was left open
- furnace was in the basement. Repairman came Friday and went down to service it and did not see the bodies (it’s a big house). Routine maintenance iirc
- afaik no cleaners were scheduled for Thursday
- we don’t know if mystery visitor on Thursday went into the house
- Barry owned almost all of apotex, and controlled Sherfam. I’m sure there was lots of money transferred between the 2 at different times. For all intents and purposes it was all Barry’s money
- re the call to police. It was a health related call. Iirc fire may have also arrived. The call was made either late Friday morning (per media reports), or early fri afternoon (Per TPS homicide website).

 

[coleo9]

This is the Press Conference by TPS announcing the deaths were deemed to be a result of a targeted double homicide on Jan 26, 2018. As is the Canadian way, beyond that little or nothing is known about the investigation other than what was contained in the ITOs - documents that supported search warrants/production orders - reported by the media over the past few months.

Things seem to

See my post #529. It’s a youtube video of the full press conference responding to your question - “Are there public results of this investigation”

thanks just figuring out how this site works as far as navigating information. I’m sure all my questions that could be answered on here already have been asked and answered.

 

[MistyWaters]

I am new to this site but have followed this case since it happened.

A few things, some that have been briefly introduced and have gone silent without answers or more attention, or reports that make other reports no longer make logical sense. Many of these questions came after reading the Kevin Donovan book.

• Why look in the gutter/drain out front of the home the first week – this was still when it was considered murder suicide? They checked the roof as well, why if they are thinking murder suicide - Maybe police let media make an assumption and did not correct it to allow early interviewees to feel relaxed during questioning?

• Who knew the pool area was not used much, who knew how to get into that room – a special button was described – is this in plain view?

• Recent painting was done in a room – was it in the basement? a window was left open to vent the room – who and when did they paint – a window was now open for 3+ days – in snowstorms?
• cleaning was underway on the main floor and 2nd floor hours before bodies were found, how much evidence was destroyed and altered?

• Where is the furnace – on the Friday it is said the furnace repairman was there, who called him and why, this was a very cold and snowy time, was the furnace not working? He is mentioned being in the house but he did not go to the basement?

• Was anyone in the home on Thursday – I read years ago that a cleaning lady came in and cleaned on Thursday but did not go downstairs but cannot find that article. Later articles state that no one was to be in the home on Thursday.

• Car in the driveway on Thursday. Who was the individual going to the door a number of times over 45 min interval on the Thursday. – Did they enter the home or only knock on the door. Did this person make any cell calls from the driveway – call Honey or someone else? check cell towers for all cellular activity during a certain timeframe?

• The virtual real estate visit, where were the people viewing from – what country – did they view the entire home – including the pool area?

• Was the pool covered? It is reported it was green and had not been used in a long time, did the pool room have an algae odor from the green water?

• All this talk about needing $$ to pay off an APOTEX debt? Is that really why Jonathon and Adam are asked to repay loans 2 weeks before the murders? Why would SherFam $$ be used to pay off APOTEX debt? - B+H just had a meeting to spend 30 mil on a new home, the recent discussions with friends was that Honey will be coming into hundreds of millions, all at a time when JS states they were in a bad financial state and they needed to find another financier.

• Where was Adam during this time? Why was it so important for Jonathon to have Adam included in all things that related to money.

• If this was an APOTEX-related hit, (hired hit) why kill both – Barry could have easily been taken out before he entered his home, same for Honey if she was the target and was attacked/restrained an hour? before Barry arrived why wait for him?

• If it was a APOTEX hit would they not go after his business partner Jay as well, why just Barry?

• do we even know if Honey was still alive when Barry arrived home?

• The 911 call, what was the emergency they were called for? It was the police who came, not ambulance or fire, so assume it was not a health-related call for help? where did it originate from a cell phone or a land line? Did the call come in on Wed night or on Thursday morning? Did Honey's cell phone (found by cleaning lady Friday morning on main floor powder room floor) have 911 dialed as a last call?

Understanding that none of us have the answers to these questions but if one person can think of all these questions just imagine how much information must be accumulating with the TPS and this investigation.

BobbiPearl

Great questions! You’re right, by now LE knows many never released details which may point toward one direction or another. At least 243 witness interviews have been conducted, far more than the couple dozen or so people (if that) who’ve been publicly associated to the Shermans through the media.

 

[Lexiintoronto]

I am new to this site but have followed this case since it happened.

A few things, some that have been briefly introduced and have gone silent without answers or more attention, or reports that make other reports no longer make logical sense. Many of these questions came after reading the Kevin Donovan book.

• Why look in the gutter/drain out front of the home the first week – this was still when it was considered murder suicide? They checked the roof as well, why if they are thinking murder suicide - Maybe police let media make an assumption and did not correct it to allow early interviewees to feel relaxed during questioning?
• Kevin Donovan theorized that the police may have been looking for restraints that may have been used to bound the Shermans’ wrists. (Maybe flushed down the toilet. There are filters in the sewer system that can catch objects from clogging the pipes.) From the marks left on their wrists, Zipties or hard restraints may have been used. ETA: the Shermans’ home had been broken into a year prior to the murders. The thieves entered through the skylight. The police officially said they considered all manners of death from the beginning, but it seems as though they knew Honey had been murdered, but were not as certain about Barry’s manner of death.

• Who knew the pool area was not used much, who knew how to get into that room – a special button was described – is this in plain view?
• Many people knew. The button was in plain site, no code required.

• Recent painting was done in a room – was it in the basement? a window was left open to vent the room – who and when did they paint – a window was now open for 3+ days – in snowstorms?
• The window was in a front room of the basement. The painters were working there on Wednesday. On Friday, before the realtor found their bodies, she discovered that the window was opened about six inches.
• cleaning was underway on the main floor and 2nd floor hours before bodies were found, how much evidence was destroyed and altered?
• We don’t know yet. Donovan reported that the housekeeper found Honey’s phone on a main floor powder room on the floor and picked it up and placed it on the counter. (Later reports said it was the realtor.) Police statements show that no one stepped close or touched the Shermans when they were found. But as you said—she had been cleaning the home, evidence may have been destroyed.

• Where is the furnace – on the Friday it is said the furnace repairman was there, who called him and why, this was a very cold and snowy time, was the furnace not working? He is mentioned being in the house but he did not go to the basement?
• There were four furnaces in the basement utility room. He was there in the basement for routine maintenance for one hour. Floor plans: https://media.houssmax.ca/201711/29/5a1f32afd3797.pdf

• Was anyone in the home on Thursday – I read years ago that a cleaning lady came in and cleaned on Thursday but did not go downstairs but cannot find that article. Later articles state that no one was to be in the home on Thursday.
• No one scheduled to be there, that we know of. Honey’s assistant had Thursday and Friday off.

• Car in the driveway on Thursday. Who was the individual going to the door a number of times over 45 min interval on the Thursday. – Did they enter the home or only knock on the door. Did this person make any cell calls from the driveway – call Honey or someone else? check cell towers for all cellular activity during a certain timeframe?
• We don’t know, but apparently the police know who the person is and why they were there. Donovan originally reported that the person entered the home, but now says that they may not have.

• The virtual real estate visit, where were the people viewing from – what country – did they view the entire home – including the pool area?
• I don’t know. I personally haven’t found any information on them except that they typed their questions and answers, didn’t speak, and didn’t show themselves.

• Was the pool covered? It is reported it was green and had not been used in a long time, did the pool room have an algae odor from the green water?
• In the real estate photos, the pool has a blue cover on. No idea about the water quality at the time.

• All this talk about needing $$ to pay off an APOTEX debt? Is that really why Jonathon and Adam are asked to repay loans 2 weeks before the murders? Why would SherFam $$ be used to pay off APOTEX debt? - B+H just had a meeting to spend 30 mil on a new home, the recent discussions with friends was that Honey will be coming into hundreds of millions, all at a time when JS states they were in a bad financial state and they needed to find another financier.
• It was Barry who asked Jonathon to repay 50-60 million that he borrowed, and Barry asked him to get a bank mortgage in order to do so. In an email, Barry said Apotex had lost a lawsuit over a patent, and needed to pay over 500 million. Sherfam is where the net profits of Apotex and other Sherman companies are held and invested (I don’t fully understand it.) Jonathon and his partner, Adam, were asked to repay Barry in July, October and November of 2017, according to emails in evidence. They agreed to do so, but did not.

• Where was Adam during this time? Why was it so important for Jonathon to have Adam included in all things that related to money.
• Adam is still a bit of a mystery. Jonathon told Donovan that he relied on Adam because of his business knowledge and felt more confident with him in business meetings.

• If this was an APOTEX-related hit, (hired hit) why kill both – Barry could have easily been taken out before he entered his home, same for Honey if she was the target and was attacked/restrained an hour? before Barry arrived why wait for him?
• We don’t know the police’s theory, but they have said that the estate is embedded in their investigation. We only know from the police that the Shermans were killed between 9-12 that night. Donovan believes the scene makes the murders seem like a personal crime, not a contracted hit.

• If it was a APOTEX hit would they not go after his business partner Jay as well, why just Barry?
• His partner Jack, was in NY. We don’t know if it was an Apotex hit.

• do we even know if Honey was still alive when Barry arrived home?
• No, we don’t.

• The 911 call, what was the emergency they were called for? It was the police who came, not ambulance or fire, so assume it was not a health-related call for help? where did it originate from a cell phone or a land line? Did the call come in on Wed night or on Thursday morning? Did Honey's cell phone (found by cleaning lady Friday morning on main floor powder room floor) have 911 dialed as a last call?
• Toronto Fire Department and paramedics responded to a ‘vital signs absent’ call made by realtor Elise Stern who told 911 ‘they’re dead. Someone killed my clients’. The call came from the Sherman home at around noon on Friday (the TPS website gives a later time). They were visibly deceased. Police arrived shortly after. The last call Honey made was at 6:21 pm, the last day she was seen alive.

Understanding that none of us have the answers to these questions but if one person can think of all these questions just imagine how much information must be accumulating with the TPS and this investigation.

BobbiPearl

Hi Bobbi Pearl, I tried my best to answer (my answers in blue). I’m going by the best of my knowledge from our timeline, I can link things if you’d like. More people with more knowledge than me will hopefully answer as well.

 

[deugirtni]

I am new to this site but have followed this case since it happened.

A few things, some that have been briefly introduced and have gone silent without answers or more attention, or reports that make other reports no longer make logical sense. Many of these questions came after reading the Kevin Donovan book.

• Was the pool covered? It is reported it was green and had not been used in a long time, did the pool room have an algae odor from the green water?

• The 911 call, what was the emergency they were called for? It was the police who came, not ambulance or fire, so assume it was not a health-related call for help? where did it originate from a cell phone or a land line? Did the call come in on Wed night or on Thursday morning? Did Honey's cell phone (found by cleaning lady Friday morning on main floor powder room floor) have 911 dialed as a last call?

Understanding that none of us have the answers to these questions but if one person can think of all these questions just imagine how much information must be accumulating with the TPS and this investigation.

BobbiPearl

Great questions and welcome to the thread. Above quoted post snipped by me.

The mention of the pool being green was from daughter Kaelen's fiance. I doubt if the pool still would've been green at the time the home was listed for sale. I'm sure they would've cleaned it beforehand so potential buyers would see a sparkling clean indoor pool. imo.

By '911 call', I assume you are talking about the 911 call which was received (reportedly) from a home down the street from the Shermans. It wasn't ever said what type of emergency, and yes, it was police who responded and not other services. It makes me wonder if it was a call that was simply called in, but nothing heard (a hangup?), and possibly police therefore just showed up to make sure everything was okay, as I know they will do in such situations? That is just my own opinion. It was never said whether the call was landline or cellphone, nor what time it came in, but only what time police responded, which was approximately 9:45am on the Thursday. It would be interesting to know if Honey (or Barry's) phone showed an outgoing call to 911, but something we won't know, but hopefully TPS know. (Could it have possibly been the man parked out front, waiting at the door who made the call? Police say they know who it was and why he was there, but hopefully they also checked HIS phone?)
--
Toronto Police were investigating a mysterious 911 call down the street from Barry and Honey Sherman's home at the same time as the Apotex founder and his wife lay dead or dying, a Star investigation reveals. … On the Thursday morning [dec 14, 2017] at 9:45 a.m., a full day before the Sherman bodies were discovered, homeowners down the road from the Shermans answered a knock on their door. The Star has agreed not to identify the homeowners or their exact address. They live roughly 10 houses away on Old Colony.

The man at the door was a uniformed police officer asking if someone in their home had made a 911 call. The homeowners said no. The officer shared few details, but said police believed it came from the homeowners' house, but did not say if the call had come from a cellular phone or a landline. The officer did not say what time the call came in.

The next day, when news surfaced late in the afternoon of the Shermans' bodies being discovered, one of the homeowners happened to be driving near Toronto Police Services 33 Division (the local division that was at the time investigating the Shermans' deaths before the homicide unit took over). The homeowner went in to make a report, wanting to alert them to the fact a police officer had been on Old Colony Rd. the day before.

"It was just too much of a coincidence and I thought police should know," the homeowner told the Star. That Friday night at the police division, the homeowner was told by police that "maybe some wires were crossed" and that is why it appeared a 911 call had been made.
...
At the same time police were checking out the 911 call down the street, a four-door car pulled up in front of the Sherman home. It was 9:11 a.m. and the car remained on the street until 10:16 a.m. By this time, it is most likely that the Shermans were dead, according to sources close to the case.

A security camera on a house across the street from the Sherman home captured a man getting out of the car three times, each time walking onto the Sherman property and up to the front door, according to neighbours whose cameras recorded these events. The neighbours, who provided the video to police, said the images on the video are blurry, as it was focused on their own property and only picked up the Sherman property in the background. They said it was not possible to make out the man's face, the licence plate on the car or the type of car. The neighbours have said they believed the man went in and out of the Sherman house but the Sherman private detective team has studied the same video and it is "inconclusive" as to whether the man enters the house or stood in the alcove leading to the front door, according to Brian Greenspan, lawyer for the Sherman family.
...
"I can tell you we knew who the person was, why they were there, (the person) was interviewed," Saunders told reporters earlier this year.

The Star reached out to the police constable who went to check out the 911 call but he was unavailable for comment.
Barry and Honey Sherman's neighbours cite mysterious 911 call, visitor on day before billionaires found dead

 

[casesensitive]

Welcome to Websleuths Bobbi Pearl.

Hi Bobbi Pearl, I tried my best to answer (my answers in blue). I’m going by the best of my knowledge from our timeline, I can link things if you’d like. More people with more knowledge than me will hopefully answer as well.

Welcome Bobbi Pearl, and great answers from Lexi. The one thing I can add a comment to, is to try to explain your first question, as to "why".

""Why look in the gutter/drain out front of the home the first week – this was still when it was considered murder suicide? They checked the roof as well, why if they are thinking murder suicide - Maybe police let media make an assumption and did not correct it to allow early interviewees to feel relaxed during questioning?"

The second autopsies were already completed and the double murder finding would have been immediately known to TPS. They obviously had to investigate the crime scene thoroughly to either prove a double murder, or go with their murder/suicide theory. Lexi answered the rest of that question.

 

[Lexiintoronto]

Great questions and welcome to the thread. Above quoted post snipped by me.

The mention of the pool being green was from daughter Kaelen's fiance. I doubt if the pool still would've been green at the time the home was listed for sale. I'm sure they would've cleaned it beforehand so potential buyers would see a sparkling clean indoor pool. imo.

By '911 call', I assume you are talking about the 911 call which was received (reportedly) from a home down the street from the Shermans. It wasn't ever said what type of emergency, and yes, it was police who responded and not other services. It makes me wonder if it was a call that was simply called in, but nothing heard (a hangup?), and possibly police therefore just showed up to make sure everything was okay, as I know they will do in such situations? That is just my own opinion. It was never said whether the call was landline or cellphone, nor what time it came in, but only what time police responded, which was approximately 9:45am on the Thursday. It would be interesting to know if Honey (or Barry's) phone showed an outgoing call to 911, but something we won't know, but hopefully TPS know. (Could it have possibly been the man parked out front, waiting at the door who made the call? Police say they know who it was and why he was there, but hopefully they also checked HIS phone?)
--
Toronto Police were investigating a mysterious 911 call down the street from Barry and Honey Sherman's home at the same time as the Apotex founder and his wife lay dead or dying, a Star investigation reveals. … On the Thursday morning [dec 14, 2017] at 9:45 a.m., a full day before the Sherman bodies were discovered, homeowners down the road from the Shermans answered a knock on their door. The Star has agreed not to identify the homeowners or their exact address. They live roughly 10 houses away on Old Colony.

The man at the door was a uniformed police officer asking if someone in their home had made a 911 call. The homeowners said no. The officer shared few details, but said police believed it came from the homeowners' house, but did not say if the call had come from a cellular phone or a landline. The officer did not say what time the call came in.

The next day, when news surfaced late in the afternoon of the Shermans' bodies being discovered, one of the homeowners happened to be driving near Toronto Police Services 33 Division (the local division that was at the time investigating the Shermans' deaths before the homicide unit took over). The homeowner went in to make a report, wanting to alert them to the fact a police officer had been on Old Colony Rd. the day before.

"It was just too much of a coincidence and I thought police should know," the homeowner told the Star. That Friday night at the police division, the homeowner was told by police that "maybe some wires were crossed" and that is why it appeared a 911 call had been made.
...
At the same time police were checking out the 911 call down the street, a four-door car pulled up in front of the Sherman home. It was 9:11 a.m. and the car remained on the street until 10:16 a.m. By this time, it is most likely that the Shermans were dead, according to sources close to the case.

A security camera on a house across the street from the Sherman home captured a man getting out of the car three times, each time walking onto the Sherman property and up to the front door, according to neighbours whose cameras recorded these events. The neighbours, who provided the video to police, said the images on the video are blurry, as it was focused on their own property and only picked up the Sherman property in the background. They said it was not possible to make out the man's face, the licence plate on the car or the type of car. The neighbours have said they believed the man went in and out of the Sherman house but the Sherman private detective team has studied the same video and it is "inconclusive" as to whether the man enters the house or stood in the alcove leading to the front door, according to Brian Greenspan, lawyer for the Sherman family.
...
"I can tell you we knew who the person was, why they were there, (the person) was interviewed," Saunders told reporters earlier this year.

The Star reached out to the police constable who went to check out the 911 call but he was unavailable for comment.
Barry and Honey Sherman's neighbours cite mysterious 911 call, visitor on day before billionaires found dead

I misunderstood! *That* 911 call was a mystery.

 

[Lexiintoronto]

Donovan said Barry’s BlackBerry was found ‘near by’:

“You are a homicide detective working one of the most sensational cases in recent history. Billionaires Barry and Honey Sherman, found dead in their basement swimming pool room, staged in a macabre pose. Barry’s BlackBerry is discovered nearby, and his office computer and cluttered desk are surely awash with clues.”
Lawyers for Ontario, Apotex struck deal on what detectives could access in Sherman murder investigation. It took one month

Barry’s gloves and the home inspection report were found close to the door of the underground garage. Donovan makes it sound as if his phone was found in the pool area (?). Why wouldn’t the killer(s) take it from him?

We read some of the statements from the gardener, realtor etc. who were at the scene. No one mentions his phone making a sound, fwiw.

 

[casesensitive]

Lexi: "Donovan makes it sound as if his phone was found in the pool area (?). Why wouldn’t the killer(s) take it from him?"

Some murderers who take cell phones from a crime scene are usually people who want to hide any recent communication with the victim. Smart killers know that this information can be found out by LE even if the phone is missing. Smart killers either don't call their victim or they use a burner phone that can't be traced.

For whatever reason, the Sherman killer(s) wasn't worried about leaving the Shermans' cell phone evidence, nor their computer evidence. Either the killer was close to them and was very careful in the tone of recent email and texts, or this was a professional hit. Both scenarios fit imo.

 

[deugirtni]

Lexi: "Donovan makes it sound as if his phone was found in the pool area (?). Why wouldn’t the killer(s) take it from him?"

Some murderers who take cell phones from a crime scene are usually people who want to hide any recent communication with the victim. Smart killers know that this information can be found out by LE even if the phone is missing. Smart killers either don't call their victim or they use a burner phone that can't be traced.

For whatever reason, the Sherman killer(s) wasn't worried about leaving the Shermans' cell phone evidence, nor their computer evidence. Either the killer was close to them and was very careful in the tone of recent email and texts, or this was a professional hit. Both scenarios fit imo.

Or it wouldn't have seemed an issue if the person contacting them via cellphone was someone close who might regularly contact them anyway, and could come up with a valid sounding reason for any contact found on the devices? Same as how it might be kind of meaningless if police were to find prints of someone who is known to have been in the house, or someone who might have a key could still enter without a 'sign of breakin', etc. imo. My guess however, is as mentioned - the killer didn't contact them via electronic means, so no need to remove any devices.

 

[deugirtni]

I would be interested to know if one or the other of the victims had contacted the other one during the evening of December 13th. (ie 'hurry home, you'll never guess who flagged me down at the mall and is here at home with me now', or 'I'm on my way home now, and you'll never guess who I ran into on the way', etc.)

 

[Bobbi Pearl]

Welcome Bobbi. I can answer a couple of your questions quickly:
- button to the pool room was in plain view in the hallway outside the pool room door
- painting with open window was in the basement. I don’t know how long it was left open
- furnace was in the basement. Repairman came Friday and went down to service it and did not see the bodies (it’s a big house). Routine maintenance iirc
- afaik no cleaners were scheduled for Thursday
- we don’t know if mystery visitor on Thursday went into the house
- Barry owned almost all of apotex, and controlled Sherfam. I’m sure there was lots of money transferred between the 2 at different times. For all intents and purposes it was all Barry’s money
- re the call to police. It was a health related call. Iirc fire may have also arrived. The call was made either late Friday morning (per media reports), or early fri afternoon (Per TPS homicide website).

Thank you so much for the reply and details IDlager.

My only thought that came to mind regarding the APOTEX/Sherfam $$, the reason Barry created SherFam was to protect his other money and projects from APOTEX. Business taxes need to be paid, he is in court often and needed to separate the two. So it still sits nonlogically that SherFam business would need to recall Jonathon and Adam's loans only - not the rest of the families (according to JS all siblings repaid their loans to sherfam with the first estate payout) And then talk about moving hundreds of millions to Honey and build a 30 million dollar home.

If the reason was that Barry wanted the 50 mil back to Sherfam so he could appropriate the money to build his 30 mil house that would make more sense to me.

RE 911 call sorry I meant the one where the cop went to a neighbor's home.

Furnace - basement, interesting, we also know that at some point (I believe it was Fri morning) that someone (real estate rep?) picked up Barry's gloves and paperwork from the floor and placed it on a ledge by the stairs. Was that before or after the furnace repairman? if it is a regular service call did anything seem strange to him?

thanks
BobbiPearl

 

[Bobbi Pearl]

Great questions! You’re right, by now LE knows many never released details which may point toward one direction or another. At least 243 witness interviews have been conducted, far more than the couple dozen or so people (if that) who’ve been publicly associated to the Shermans through the media.

Thank you MistyWaters.

Let's hope they have all of these answers.

BobbiPearl

 

[WINDSOR]

Bobbi Pearl, great questions. I think it all boils down to one question though.

"Who benefits?"......................................... With the Shermans dead who feels better about things?
1) Business enemies of the Shermans?
2) Revenge seekers?
3) The competitors of Apotex?
4) The shareholders of Apotex
5) Those struggling to take control of the fortune from the Sherman parents?

On the surface #1 #2, and #3 have great potential. However has there been any evidence pointing in that direction?
Usually only people involved in Criminal enterprises kill their enemies or competitors, that appears to be a real stretch in the Sherman's case.
Revenge seekers still could be a viable group, especially with the 'staging' scenario in which the bodies were found. If the staging was from revenge seekers, then de-coding that aspect of the crime scene, will likely point to the POI.

Bodies dressed, sitting, wearing glasses, legs crossed.
Could the staging be showing the Shermans as aloof, uncaring and disinterested? The body language might portray that.
Any other ideas?

 

[MistyWaters]

Donovan said Barry’s BlackBerry was found ‘near by’:

“You are a homicide detective working one of the most sensational cases in recent history. Billionaires Barry and Honey Sherman, found dead in their basement swimming pool room, staged in a macabre pose. Barry’s BlackBerry is discovered nearby, and his office computer and cluttered desk are surely awash with clues.”
Lawyers for Ontario, Apotex struck deal on what detectives could access in Sherman murder investigation. It took one month

Barry’s gloves and the home inspection report were found close to the door of the underground garage. Donovan makes it sound as if his phone was found in the pool area (?). Why wouldn’t the killer(s) take it from him?

We read some of the statements from the gardener, realtor etc. who were at the scene. No one mentions his phone making a sound, fwiw.

I can’t think of a reason the killer would take cellphones either as they can be tracked. Nothing that’s been published indicates the Shermans nor the home was so guarded and secure that everyone required a prearranged appointment in order to gain access. Communicating with potential murder victims in advance of a visit, killer has no control over the Shermans mentioning it to others.

Whoever arrived at the Sherman home that night I think was unexpected. But the 36 hours moves their deaths closer to midnight. I think it’d be highly unusual for a contract killer to spend hours in that home.

“Police believe they had been dead for about 36 hours when their bodies were found by realtors who had listed their home for sale.”
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/family-sherman-deaths-police-probe-1.5896496?cmp=rss

 

[Bobbi Pearl]

Hi Bobbi Pearl, I tried my best to answer (my answers in blue). I’m going by the best of my knowledge from our timeline, I can link things if you’d like. More people with more knowledge than me will hopefully answer as well.

Wow, great answers and details Lexiintoronto!

Thank you everyone for the feedback. I am starting to get confused as to whom shared what details my apologies not naming all of you and thank you to all:

Checking road sewers? I hope our bathroom waste does not go out of our houses and to these sewers (the stench would be brutal would it not?), if they flushed something would you need to snake it and check inside pipes?

Why would you take the ties with you and then throw them close to the home?

By '911 call', I assume you are talking about the 911 call which was received (reportedly) from a home down the street from the Shermans. It wasn't ever said what type of emergency, and yes, it was police who responded and not other services. It makes me wonder if it was a call that was simply called in, but nothing heard (a hangup?), and possibly police therefore just showed up to make sure everything was okay, as I know they will do in such situations? That is just my own opinion. It was never said whether the call was landline or cellphone, nor what time it came in, but only what time police responded, which was approximately 9:45am on the Thursday. It would be interesting to know if Honey (or Barry's) phone showed an outgoing call to 911, but something we won't know, but hopefully TPS know. (Could it have possibly been the man parked out front, waiting at the door who made the call? Police say they know who it was and why he was there, but hopefully they also checked HIS phone?)

I agree here, it makes sense if this was the same timing as the neighbor police 911 call follow up, this could have been the police officer going to the door and knocking.

after reading many of the replies more thoughts:

I would expect the neighbor's camera that catches at minimum the street in front of the Shermans home, they would see who drove in and out of the home every day. I expect the camera does not catch the full driveway or doorway of the Sherman home. (they checked road side sewer/gutters before they saw this video I would assume as well).

If the perp(s) were on foot and did not park close to the home (video view) what foot prints were found on the grounds? That week had 2 or more snow falls and it was very cold out so it would not melt quickly (unlike a heated driveway which they assumably may have had on the ramp to the garage.)



Someone also mentioned autopsies, this is something that struck me oddly in the beginning as well, I have read that many Jewish do not agree with autopsies but this family pushed and asked for a second one. Why would any family member if involved (as some think this is a family member) go against beliefs and ask for a 2nd if they had something to hide.


BobbiPearl

 

[ldlager]

I would be interested to know if one or the other of the victims had contacted the other one during the evening of December 13th. (ie 'hurry home, you'll never guess who flagged me down at the mall and is here at home with me now', or 'I'm on my way home now, and you'll never guess who I ran into on the way', etc.)

They may have texted or emailed, but I assume police would not have the ability to obtain a transcript of a conversation that took place between 2 individuals talking on a phone?

 

[ldlager]

Thank you so much for the reply and details IDlager.

My only thought that came to mind regarding the APOTEX/Sherfam $$, the reason Barry created SherFam was to protect his other money and projects from APOTEX. Business taxes need to be paid, he is in court often and needed to separate the two. So it still sits nonlogically that SherFam business would need to recall Jonathon and Adam's loans only - not the rest of the families (according to JS all siblings repaid their loans to sherfam with the first estate payout) And then talk about moving hundreds of millions to Honey and build a 30 million dollar home.

If the reason was that Barry wanted the 50 mil back to Sherfam so he could appropriate the money to build his 30 mil house that would make more sense to me.

RE 911 call sorry I meant the one where the cop went to a neighbor's home.

Furnace - basement, interesting, we also know that at some point (I believe it was Fri morning) that someone (real estate rep?) picked up Barry's gloves and paperwork from the floor and placed it on a ledge by the stairs. Was that before or after the furnace repairman? if it is a regular service call did anything seem strange to him?

thanks
BobbiPearl

Thanks. re Sherfam, it was JS that had the vast majority of funds advanced to him- the sisters together has materially less $ loans IIRC. IMO and based on what we know BS didn't need JS to repay his loans to fund his new house- frankly, $30 million would have been rounding to Barry given his non Apotex personal wealth. IMO Barry was sending a message to JS with his repayment request.