CANADA Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #16

[Bobbi Pearl]

Btw, why were Barry’s gloves and home inspection report/ notes found on the floor of the downstairs hallway just inside the garage door? This was no suicide. The murderer was foolish to pose them that way, but couldn’t resist.

To me, this is a great note of detail for this argument of facts. From most reports, the home was in a clean state. Why stage the bodies but leave those items at the bottom of the stairs, it does not help to "sell" the implication of M/S?

So often a thought crosses my mind, wonder if the staging was done the day after they were killed. What if the killer or killers sent someone else the next day to clean up the crime scene and then set the two of them up on display to recreate another scenery? I understand that information from autopsies does not share with us if they had any internal blood pooling, indicating they were in a different position at death and then moved to a seated position? I do not know how the reports of exact hours they were deceased for (36) can be taken as 100% accurate. They were in a temperature-controlled room, with full clothing and winter coats on. Most likely they are using cell and email communications as the last time they could have been alive?

adding: the arms behind back made me think rigor was in play and all they could do was remove ties?

Bobbi Pearl

 

[dotr]

Regarding BS's gloves and house plans found on the floor, those items have always struck me somehow, as staged too.

At this point, wondering if the murders were less about cold hard cash and maybe more about real estate and competition.
The Shermans purchased an extremely desirable property and house in Forest Hill, and had it demolished in order to replace it with a super-sized, blinged out and transformed into the ultimate in grandiose mansions.

After all, the Shermans were murdered almost immediately following the Apotex meeting with the new home's architects, and at the very house they were selling at a huge profit margin.
Drop the plans, drop the gloves, or lose both.
speculation, imo.

The house Honey and Barry Sherman would have built
''Honey and Barry Sherman’s new house would have been filled with light.

The property at 91 Old Forest Hill Rd. is desolate now, an empty 25,000-square-foot lot near Eglinton Ave. W. and Spadina Rd. where a house once stood. The plot of land was registered in Honey’s name in November 2016, and the old house had been demolished to make way for something new.

Though it’s unclear to the public what will happen to the property now, architectural plans submitted to the City of Toronto reveal the intricate details of the 16,000-square-foot home the billionaire couple was set to build before their bodies were found this month — under what police call “suspicious” circumstances.

The drawings show a home with five skylights, ranging from six to 17 feet in length, letting light pour in across the roof of the main brick-and-stone residence. Another massive skylight, 41 feet in length, would slide open from the centre, over an indoor pool.''

 

[Bobbi Pearl]

Btw, why were Barry’s gloves and home inspection report/ notes found on the floor of the downstairs hallway just inside the garage door? This was no suicide. The murderer was foolish to pose them that way, but couldn’t resist.

To me, this is a great note of detail for this argument of facts. From most reports, the home was in a clean state. Why stage the bodies but leave those items at the bottom of the stairs, it does not help to "sell" the implication of M/S?

So often a thought crosses my mind, wonder if the staging was done the day after they were killed. What if the killer or killers sent someone else the next day to clean up the crime scene and then set the two of them up on display to recreate another scenery? I understand that information from autopsies does not share with us if they had any internal blood pooling, indicating they were in a different position at death and then moved to a seated position? I do not know how the reports of exact hours they were deceased for (36) can be taken as 100% accurate. They were in a temperature-controlled room, with full clothing and winter coats on. Most likely they are using cell and email communications as the last time they could have been alive?

Bobbi Pearl

Regarding BS's gloves and house plans found on the floor, those items have always struck me somehow, as staged too.

At this point, wondering if the murders were less about cold hard cash and maybe more about real estate and competition.
The Shermans purchased an extremely desirable property and house in Forest Hill, and had it demolished in order to replace it with a super-sized, blinged out and transformed into the ultimate in grandiose mansions.

After all, the Shermans were murdered almost immediately following the Apotex meeting with the new home's architects, and at the very house they were selling at a huge profit margin.
Drop the plans, drop the gloves, or lose both.
speculation, imo.

The house Honey and Barry Sherman would have built
''Honey and Barry Sherman’s new house would have been filled with light.

The property at 91 Old Forest Hill Rd. is desolate now, an empty 25,000-square-foot lot near Eglinton Ave. W. and Spadina Rd. where a house once stood. The plot of land was registered in Honey’s name in November 2016, and the old house had been demolished to make way for something new.

Though it’s unclear to the public what will happen to the property now, architectural plans submitted to the City of Toronto reveal the intricate details of the 16,000-square-foot home the billionaire couple was set to build before their bodies were found this month — under what police call “suspicious” circumstances.

The drawings show a home with five skylights, ranging from six to 17 feet in length, letting light pour in across the roof of the main brick-and-stone residence. Another massive skylight, 41 feet in length, would slide open from the center, over an indoor pool.''

Similar thought crossed mine if they were planted? unfortunately, we will not have the opportunity to discuss if they were "laid out" in a specific fashion, or dropped say in a moment of shock or arms grabbed - the staff picked all the items up and placed them on a ledge, we only know a general area that they were found on the floor. It would be interesting to know was the report still in the envelope or was the report laid out on specific pages?

A nagging recurring thought about the report that HS missed an appointment that week and gave a reason that she had an issue dealing with something personal and all the different "have money" / "need money" / BS estate executor changes & who will take over from him conversations happening (BS states no way AP will be part of his estate, BS needs JS/AP to pay up, BS still buying and spending large $$, building a new home, rumor transferring hundreds of millions to HS, BS give it all to charity when he dies, HS changed will, HS copy of will not be reported as found at the residence.)

All this leads me to speculate that the reason is close to home. Really not sure if it is only about money, I think Power was just as equal a motive. When a person who is custom to getting what they want no strings attached and can no longer control a person and their personal relationships to get what they want, what other option do they have but to remove the obstacle(s)? - Lock and key come to mind, a very odd phrase to describe a couple, what did JS perceive as locked away from him and which one held the key? Yes it could be taken as endearing and loving but when the words "useless without the other" were added it gave it new meaning for me. I would never use the word useless to describe a loved one, especially a murdered and deceased one. I think JS thought he was being clever and witty and it backfired.

I say speculate because the lack of knowledge we have as to what other communications were happening during this time leaves little conclusions for us to make. Again makes you wonder if we are only be strung along by what the media says and wants us to read if the devil is in the details and the details need to be kept secret until a culprit is found and proven guilty we could be getting the prosecution's point of view, not the defense where they can show that the issue was that she ate something bad and was stuck in the bathroom and could not get there to participate, nor tell them she would not make it, something as simple as that. My reply would be vague as well.

 

[Rush4087]

I do not believe BS’s gloves and home inspection report were staged. I believe they were dropped by him and are evidence that a surprise assault occurred at that location.

I think BS was assaulted and constrained (incl having his jacket pulled down just off his shoulders) the moment he came in that door from the garage. He may have then been perp walked directly into the pool area. Jmo

 

[Bobbi Pearl]

I do not believe BS’s gloves and home inspection report were staged. I believe they were dropped by him and are evidence that a surprise assault occurred at that location.

I think BS was assaulted and constrained (incl having his jacket pulled down just off his shoulders) the moment he came in that door from the garage. He may have then been perp walked directly into the pool area. Jmo

I agree with you, I think he was surprised at the door upon his entry. I believe that Honey was subdued and restrained immediately upon her entry upstairs as well, she too was still dressed for the outdoor weather. Questions about what shoes she wears in the house may indicate she still had on outdoor shoes as well.

But to play the other side of the coin, the report and gloves could have been staged to confuse the scene and provide a lead it was about the report and either leads to M/S or killed regarding the home and its report. To date, I have not read any details about what was in the report, only that he had it.

Bobbi Pearl

 

[Lexiintoronto]

I agree with you, I think he was surprised at the door upon his entry. I believe that Honey was subdued and restrained immediately upon her entry upstairs as well, she too was still dressed for the outdoor weather. Questions about what shoes she wears in the house may indicate she still had on outdoor shoes as well.

But to play the other side of the coin, the report and gloves could have been staged to confuse the scene and provide a lead it was about the report and either leads to M/S or killed regarding the home and its report. To date, I have not read any details about what was in the report, only that he had it.

Bobbi Pearl

This KD article mentions the gloves and report:
“Also discovered during the real estate tour was a thick sheaf of papers — the home inspection report for 50 Old Colony Rd. — and Barry’s leather gloves. Those items were found immediately inside the door that led from the basement garage. Insiders have told the Star that Barry had the paper copy of the inspection report at his office, and had said he would bring it home. The inspection report was found on the tiled floor of the hallway, with Barry’s gloves on top of it. Not realizing they were in a crime scene, the realtor picked up the report and gloves and placed them on a knee-high ledge that ran along the hallway”
Barry and Honey Sherman’s bodies were found posed like the sculptures in their basement

My first impression when hearing of them was that Barry put them down in order to take of his shoes or boots, and was attacked right then. The killers may have either not noticed he had the report and gloves or overlooked placing them elsewhere to align with the staging. (Or maybe they didn’t care.)

In the court documents the police asked several witnesses about what what footwear Barry and Honey used in the home, if any. That’s somehow significant. Daughter Alex mentioned Honey wore slip on shoes in the home. (Son Jonathon said he had no idea.)

In this interview (How Barry Sherman built his multibillion-dollar fortune) the reporter noted Honey was wearing ‘white crocs’ in the home, and Barry had bare feet. Indication to me they were likely in the habit of taking their outerwear shoes off as soon as they entered the home. (Maybe they were both found deceased with outdoor shoes or boots—consistent with being attacked as soon as they arrived home. No time period to remove/change shoes or take off their coats.)

 

[MistyWaters]

Btw, why were Barry’s gloves and home inspection report/ notes found on the floor of the downstairs hallway just inside the garage door? This was no suicide. The murderer was foolish to pose them that way, but couldn’t resist.

To me, this is a great note of detail for this argument of facts. From most reports, the home was in a clean state. Why stage the bodies but leave those items at the bottom of the stairs, it does not help to "sell" the implication of M/S?

So often a thought crosses my mind, wonder if the staging was done the day after they were killed. What if the killer or killers sent someone else the next day to clean up the crime scene and then set the two of them up on display to recreate another scenery? I understand that information from autopsies does not share with us if they had any internal blood pooling, indicating they were in a different position at death and then moved to a seated position? I do not know how the reports of exact hours they were deceased for (36) can be taken as 100% accurate. They were in a temperature-controlled room, with full clothing and winter coats on. Most likely they are using cell and email communications as the last time they could have been alive?

adding: the arms behind back made me think rigor was in play and all they could do was remove ties?

Bobbi Pearl

I agree, the possibility has definitely crossed my mind that the killer went back to the house late during that 2nd night as well. After the crime scene went undiscovered during the day and early evening hours on that Thursday, it could be assured nobody would raise alarm until Friday morning at the earliest. So that extra day might’ve posed an opportunity far too tempting for the killer to pass up on for various reasons, if not to pose the bodies, then to get a 2nd look of lurid satisfaction at the poses, a 2nd check to ensure everything is prepared for the impending discovery, or an opportunity to improve/add to the staging, etc. I’ve always believed the body staging was very significant as it fulfilled a fantasy in the killer’s mind.

JMO

 

[ldlager]

I agree, the possibility has definitely crossed my mind that the killer went back to the house late during that 2nd night as well. After the crime scene went undiscovered during the day and early evening hours on that Thursday, it could be assured nobody would raise alarm until Friday morning at the earliest. So that extra day might’ve posed an opportunity far too tempting for the killer to pass up on for various reasons, if not to pose the bodies, then to get a 2nd look of lurid satisfaction at the poses, a 2nd check to ensure everything is prepared for the impending discovery, or an opportunity to improve/add to the staging, etc. I’ve always believed the body staging was very significant as it fulfilled a fantasy in the killer’s mind.

JMO

While it is certainly possible that there was a revisit, I believe that the killers were already out of the country by the night after the killings.

 

[ldlager]

I agree, the possibility has definitely crossed my mind that the killer went back to the house late during that 2nd night as well. After the crime scene went undiscovered during the day and early evening hours on that Thursday, it could be assured nobody would raise alarm until Friday morning at the earliest. So that extra day might’ve posed an opportunity far too tempting for the killer to pass up on for various reasons, if not to pose the bodies, then to get a 2nd look of lurid satisfaction at the poses, a 2nd check to ensure everything is prepared for the impending discovery, or an opportunity to improve/add to the staging, etc. I’ve always believed the body staging was very significant as it fulfilled a fantasy in the killer’s mind.

JMO

IIRC was JS Out with some friends at dinner that Thurs night? If so, I wonder if there was some period of time when he may have been alone that evening, after dinner and before he eventually got home?

 

[Rush4087]

I think the killer or killers are local, and very close-to (or were well known to) the Sherman’s.

I think the killer or killers were already inside the Sherman house and waiting just inside the upper door they knew that Honey would enter through from where she parked her car. They knew she’d be arriving home first, and also that she’d likely be alone (speculation)

I think she was jumped/assaulted the very moment she walked through that door, and constrained using zip ties and by having her jacket pulled down off her shoulders. I think she was then walked down to the pool level and tied to a pool railing post to await Barry’s arrival. I think that the perp’s plan was to have the Sherman’s watch each other die, so the perp (s) had to wait a couple of hours until BS came home.

After the strangulations and attempts to stage the scene to make it look like suicide, I think the perps bolted, most likely, on foot.

No revisit next night. No clever staging besides the belts at the railings and the casual posing. This was a lotta hate. IMO

 

[Bobbi Pearl]

While it is certainly possible that there was a revisit, I believe that the killers were already out of the country by the night after the killings.

Can you share why you believe this scenario? Do you believe this was accomplished with hired assassins?

Thanks
Bobbi Pearl

 

[Kittybunny]

I have never suggested someone, JK was in Old Colony to help Barry pull Honey’s dead body from the kitchen to the pool area. There was a significant time difference in their deaths and l believe Barry called someone after her death. I have no proof. I only speculate that he would have called JK….the plan to stage the double suicide. Know that Honey was deceased before the belt was wrapped around her neck and the pool railing.
I tip my hat off to B. Greenspan….job well done. Although he rewrote the autopsy, got the TPS on board, offered up the 10 million dollar reward, he has most people in this forum convinced it was a double murder by multiple killers and arrests imminent. Do ‘t be holding your breath.
I’ll say it again, “if the bodies were found in Regent Park…it would be slam dunk M/S”. ONLY a wealthy family could pull this cover-up off.
Hire a powerful lawyer: try to connect the dots! <modsnip: Don't be disrespectful to others who hold a different opinion.>
I accept the CBC and a rigged polygraph discredited me: <modsnip: Don't be rude.>
There will never be an arrest.
Nobody will collect the 10 million reward.
Let’s all agree: Greenspan says it’s double murder….so the TPS say right the powerful lawyer hired by the family has it right.
C’mon… give me a break. What’s most unsettling is you all bought it…except for a few. Know that the tide is turning and the truth will hopefully come out.
Mayor Tory, Chief Saunders, S. Gomes, B. Price and others are all implicit in this roost!!!!
There isn’t one ounce of proof to show multiple murderers entered the house to hang Barry and Honey by the pool!

I'm curious to know what your thoughts are on the lightly veiled theory that KD seems to pushing, that JS is responsible or behind these murders (sorry not buying the M/S theory). Do you not think that money and inheritance issues could be central to this? Just because there was no evidence of an outside intruder, why couldn't it have been another family member whose prints and DNA evidence would have reason to be in the house? Can you share with us your impression of JS and perhaps his partner - is he capable?

 

[Bobbi Pearl]

IIRC was JS Out with some friends at dinner that Thurs night? If so, I wonder if there was some period of time when he may have been alone that evening, after dinner and before he eventually got home?

Another really good detail in my view. Did JS not just return from a long overseas trip to Japan on Tuesday, Dec 12th,? He had a busy week, emailing Dad for money on Wed, meeting friends Thursday, driving up north to see a new cottage, I am surprised he could recoup from the jet lag so quickly. Or was this the alibi he was creating for himself and his husband?

Your earlier conversations regarding Bitcoin/Japan and JS abnormal behaviour come to mind again here. I truly hope that JS had no hand in any of this, but like his sister became paranoid with is easily understandable when you watch his behaviour.

A question regarding JS mental state was well discussed when the Bitcoin and Japan trip was discussed here in Jan 2021. I wanted to add to that area of conversation. In my experience with multiple adoptions in my family and the education/reading, I have done to understand better why many adoptees have emotional indifference and difficult family lives, regardless of the fact that they are raised by wonderful loving families.

Studies have shown children that who have lost mothers at their birth, have similar tendencies as children that are adopted and not raised by the biological parent. I would think surrogate children would be afflicted with similar characteristics. The human bond created with the umbilical cord and a child, including the heartbeat of the carrying mother create an unbreakable connection. Most of us lucky enough to be raised by our birth mothers have an inert feeling of belonging, the confidence we are loved and wanted. A large percentage of children not raised by the birth mother do not have this sense of acceptance, unconditional love and the result had been broken down into two types of resulting behaviour. Pleasers and Rebellers. Without any control from the child, they feel the loss of the connection to the birth mother the moment they cry for her and she does not respond. The many years of research have shown that subconscious thought controls much of outward behaviour, the child does not have trust that this family will not want them and reject them, how could they love them, their own mother abandoned them. The Pleasers - in hopes this family will not reject them as well they will attempt to live a perfect life and not upset anyone. The rebel feels that they will be in control and since they feel no one will want them they will break the relationship first, more aggressive and trying to be in control.

Oddly my Mother who was a foster child then adopted at the age 19- she was a pleaser, the child that she was forced to give up (she became pregnant when she was a foster child herself, sent away to a home for unwed mothers) was a rebel and still is, it has shaped her in a way that still after finding our family she does not trust anyone loves her as much as she loves her children. But the both of them have similar traits. Same bloodline but opposite reactions to the same experience. I believe because of the era in which they each dealt with the feeling of abandonment. My mother was stoic and did not want anyone to know her past, she was embarrassed and ashamed. My sister is the opposite, she wants anyone to know she was wronged and has suffered because of it. She created a lot of angst for her adoptive family.

I believe unbeknownst to them, these were the underlying issues that this family dealt with growing up. Early reports stated HS (who herself suffered so very deeply as a child and seemed stoic by nature, able to push through it) and BS argued a lot for years, the house was not always a happy place. Honey felt he spoiled too much, they need to work harder for it. Barry was softy, more factual and aloof to his children's feelings, and not home, he was building Apotex and the family estate.

Please do not take this incorrectly I am not saying any of the Sherman children suffer from any indifference emotionally, but do think that they subconsciously come from an area of distrust already, to have your parents taken so brutally and abruptly, it is not surprising that family members are unsure of each other and their motives.

Bobbi Pearl,

 

[ldlager]

Can you share why you believe this scenario? Do you believe this was accomplished with hired assassins?

Thanks
Bobbi Pearl

yes

Can you share why you believe this scenario? Do you believe this was accomplished with hired assassins?

Thanks
Bobbi Pearl

Yes Bobbi Pearl, exactly.

 

[Bobbi Pearl]

yes


Yes Bobbi Pearl, exactly.

I tend to agree, only because I can not imagine that a family member/friend could stay silent this long without making a statement that totally gives them away. The killer(s) and maybe TPS are the only ones that know key details.

 

[ldlager]

I tend to agree, only because I can not imagine that a family member/friend could stay silent this long without making a statement that totally gives them away. The killer(s) and maybe TPS are the only ones that know key details.

I think it is possible that there were professional killers hired, and someone close to the Sherman family knows the details of what happened.

 

[casesensitive]

I think it is possible that there were professional killers hired, and someone close to the Sherman family knows the details of what happened.

I tend to agree that this is possible because of the apparent lack of crime scene evidence to make an arrest, and the checked alibis for people of interest. The one thing that doesn't fit a professional hit is the manner of killing the Shermans. It has been assessed (by a crime expert) as an up close, personal, emotionally fueled rage and hatred for the them.

Where does one find psycho professional killers who accept those instructions? It makes more sense that the killer was at the scene. Jmo.

 

[ldlager]

I tend to agree that this is possible because of the apparent lack of crime scene evidence to make an arrest, and the checked alibis for people of interest. The one thing that doesn't fit a professional hit is the manner of killing the Shermans. It has been assessed (by a crime expert) as an up close, personal, emotionally fueled rage and hatred for the them.

Where does one find psycho professional killers who accept those instructions? It makes more sense that the killer was at the scene. Jmo.

I think you meant something different, because of course the killer was at the scene. I think you meant the person that hired the killers was at the scene?
With technology today I wonder if it is possible for the person who hired the killers to watch the murders virtually without the signal being traced back to him or her? The killers could have been receiving instructions in real time if so.

 

[ldlager]

I think you meant something different, because of course the killer was at the scene. I think you meant the person that hired the killers was at the scene?
With technology today I wonder if it is possible for the person who hired the killers to watch the murders virtually without the signal being traced back to him or her? The killers could have been receiving instructions in real time if so.

I am reminded of the FaceTime tour of the house that was conducted a few days before the murder, where the person on the other end of the call couldn’t be seen, only heard

 

[Rush4087]

I tend to agree that this is possible because of the apparent lack of crime scene evidence to make an arrest, and the checked alibis for people of interest. The one thing that doesn't fit a professional hit is the manner of killing the Shermans. It has been assessed (by a crime expert) as an up close, personal, emotionally fueled rage and hatred for the them.

Where does one find psycho professional killers who accept those instructions? It makes more sense that the killer was at the scene. Jmo.

Unfortunately, I don’t think it can be determined from the crime scene evidence in this case whether there was a hired hit man or not - partly because of the incorrect classification of the scene by initial LE and the de facto subsequent failure to investigate any crime.

Were HS’s and BS’s respective entry areas checked for prints and DNA? The items HS and BS were carrying when they each separately entered? The belts? Their jackets? Possible perp entry areas? Probably not if LE predetermined the scene to be a suicide. “Nothing to see here”. Hard to solve a crime if you don’t first think a crime has been committed. What a mistake, IMO.

Regarding the statement: “because of the … checked alibis for people of interest” .. Have the alibi’s really been checked (as in established)? Not in my opinion. Not for any of my top possible “people of interest” anyway.

Have airtight alibis been established for JS and/or AP? What about KW and/or JB? How about JD? This is just the top of the list. Maybe I’ve missed some things in the thread, the book, or from LE or in msm that can shed light on this (tia for any help)

I guess part of the problem is just that there are so many possible “people of interest”.

Jmo