CANADA Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #17

[SUSAN ANN]

It may seem that way. The thing is we can make all the assumptions we want, TPS isn’t going to defend themselves either. During the recent PC didn’t Det Price say something about 920 actions, of which collecting and sifting through the thousands of hours of CCTV represented just one.

Price (homicide squad) was on site the day of discovery and iirc the unit officially took over as soon as the cause of death was determined.

I don’t know how Canada normally does things but I’m surprised there weren’t dozens of police officers involved at the very beginning. But it takes resources.

 

[MistyWaters]

I don’t know how Canada normally does things but I’m surprised there weren’t dozens of police officers involved at the very beginning. But it takes resources.

It was not a minor investigation, especially early on.

BBM
Sept 2018
This does not even include last December’s disturbing double homicide of Honey and Barry Sherman, which sources tell us was the largest homicide probe in terms of resources committed in the history of Toronto Police.
WARMINGTON: Tory 'not happy' with proposed cuts to drug, gangs, guns squads | Toronto Sun

 

[ldlager]

It was not a minor investigation, especially early on.

BBM
Sept 2018
This does not even include last December’s disturbing double homicide of Honey and Barry Sherman, which sources tell us was the largest homicide probe in terms of resources committed in the history of Toronto Police.
WARMINGTON: Tory 'not happy' with proposed cuts to drug, gangs, guns squads | Toronto Sun

Misty, just as you sometimes question the veracity of KD’s supposed “sources”, I have absolutely no belief in the accuracy or reliability of whatever TPS sources Joe Warmington claims to have. JMO

 

[SUSAN ANN]

It may seem that way. The thing is we can make all the assumptions we want, TPS isn’t going to defend themselves either. During the recent PC didn’t Det Price say something about 920 actions, of which collecting and sifting through the thousands of hours of CCTV represented just one.

Price (homicide squad) was on site the day of discovery and iirc the unit officially took over as soon as the cause of death was determined.

I don’t know how Canada normally does things but I’m surprised there weren’t dozens of police officers involved at the very beginning. But it takes resources.

It was not a minor investigation, especially early on.

BBM
Sept 2018
This does not even include last December’s disturbing double homicide of Honey and Barry Sherman, which sources tell us was the largest homicide probe in terms of resources committed in the history of Toronto Police.
WARMINGTON: Tory 'not happy' with proposed cuts to drug, gangs, guns squads | Toronto Sun[/

It was not a minor investigation, especially early on.

BBM
Sept 2018
This does not even include last December’s disturbing double homicide of Honey and Barry Sherman, which sources tell us was the largest homicide probe in terms of resources committed in the history of Toronto Police.
WARMINGTON: Tory 'not happy' with proposed cuts to drug, gangs, guns squads | Toronto Sun

how many police officers were working on this case at the beginning? How come only two officers seem to be on the case now? One couple said when they called the police about their home security videos and the police didn’t even bother to come and get those videos right away. How many were erased over I wonder?

 

[WINDSOR]

A possible snap point -

The perpetrator wanted both of the Shermans dead. Honey was leaving for Florida the next Monday iirc and Barry was joining her Christmas Day. (he’d have been alone in the house for at least a week if he was the primary target).

It’s been reported they weren’t returning until the middle of January and by that time their house may’ve been sold and so they’d presumably move into their condo.

So IMO the clock was ticking, the killer was aware of their schedule. Saying that, even though these Toronto murders haven’t been solved, I admit I’ve wondered why the killings didn’t occur in Florida? Canadian snowbirds accidental drowning in a boat would hardly be a worthy headline on page 10. No, instead the killer intentionally wanted the scandal of a possible m/s in their family home to hit local front page news. If these homicides were well preplanned, nothing happened “just because”. JMO

Excellent points. Related idea, what if the perp wanted to be close to the Shermans at the time of their demise. If the perp was a resident of Canada, he/she would have to explain their presence in Florida at the time. I agree that the travel to Florida certainly could have a significant impact on timing.

 

[BaffleMe]

Just noting the suspect walked from the Shermans home and likely walked past their former home.

The suspect was heading south on Bannatyne, according to the Star. I was looking at the route and he may have passed by Beaverhall Drive where the Shermans lived prior to 50 Old Colony. From Google maps:
View attachment 328014

He’d walk right past the Vyner Greenbelt: forested, and likely no cctv.

Their previous home is also where KW said he visited years ago and Honey confronted him about how he was spending the millions that Barry had given him. (Per the Fifth Estate program.)

Link to post where KW mentioned visiting that home:

Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #8

Barry also had issues with the construction of the home on Beaverhall. From KD’s book, page 105 of my ebook:
View attachment 328015


ETA: An early theory was that the murders were related to the construction issues at 50 Old Colony. The Shermans were found in the pool area which was a later addition to the home. The theory was that they were staged facing towards the garage and home as a ‘message’.

I'm sure this doesn't matter, but why were they building another home? And why wasn't this home secured? I mean even BS said someone could kill him. Makes no sense to me.

 

[WINDSOR]

The Will.

I haven’t wanted to ‘go there,’ but the arrows are pointing in that direction for me, so I’m parked at that line of thinking I guess until new information suggests I move.

Question for everyone. What are your thoughts today on the number of perps “on site” or close to it, Dec. 13?

The other day I was thinking three, including a spotter. Now, I’m thinking just one in the house and a spotter, or two.

Possible The Night Walker ‘flew solo’ - and if so, then I’d think he definitely had inside information about the Shermans’ schedules.

In sum, I am at three, still, but the thought of NW acting alone is nagging me.

Thoughts?

Good question................
Normally I would be extremely surprised if the night walker acted alone. If the Shermans were just shot, it could be a one person job, however I would believe with two victims, manual strangulation ( it takes a a number of minutes to ensure the victim is dead), moving and staging of the bodies, the evidence would point to at least two killers.

The only way it could work with one killer, would be for the killer know there would be some time between Honey's arrival and Barry's. That way he could deal with Honey alone, then wait for Barry to arrive and deal with him alone. Now that I consider this, and know that the Sherman's were under surveillance for some time, and they rarely arrived home together, one assailant could quite easily have committed the murders. Very possibly the night walker acted alone.

 

[deugirtni]

Excellent points. Related idea, what if the perp wanted to be close to the Shermans at the time of their demise. If the perp was a resident of Canada, he/she would have to explain their presence in Florida at the time. I agree that the travel to Florida certainly could have a significant impact on timing.

Not to mention.. I believe the FL condo was in a building? A building which undoubtedly DID have security cameras and infrastructure? Time was of the essence to make this happen before that trip, imho.

 

[deugirtni]

I don’t know how Canada normally does things but I’m surprised there weren’t dozens of police officers involved at the very beginning. But it takes resources.

how many police officers were working on this case at the beginning? How come only two officers seem to be on the case now? One couple said when they called the police about their home security videos and the police didn’t even bother to come and get those videos right away. How many were erased over I wonder?

At least there is consistency, and each hand knowing what the other is doing, etc. ?

Yim has been a detective for 15 years. A few days after the bodies were discovered, he was plucked from general investigative duties at a local police division and seconded to the elite homicide squad. At the time, police strongly considered it to be a double suicide or murder suicide, and it was not ruled a double murder for six weeks. In the early days, dozens of detectives worked the case. For more than two years, it has been Yim working solo under the direction of Detective Sergeant Brandon Price of the homicide squad. While Price assists him from time to time, Yim told court he is the primary investigator. He said the case is a priority for Toronto police, a force that investigates 70 to 90 murders each year.

The lone detective and the Barry and Honey Sherman murder case

 

[Gina20]

I'm sure this doesn't matter, but why were they building another home? And why wasn't this home secured? I mean even BS said someone could kill him. Makes no sense to me.

PressReader.com - Digital Newspaper & Magazine Subscriptions

Honey wanted to be closer to her grandchildren, and was building a "monster playroom" for them in the new home. The parents of said grandchildren have separated since the murders.

People had reason to ‘hurt’ Barry and Honey Sherman, son tells Toronto police in early days of the investigation

 

[SUSAN ANN]

At least there is consistency, and each hand knowing what the other is doing, etc. ?

Yim has been a detective for 15 years. A few days after the bodies were discovered, he was plucked from general investigative duties at a local police division and seconded to the elite homicide squad. At the time, police strongly considered it to be a double suicide or murder suicide, and it was not ruled a double murder for six weeks. In the early days, dozens of detectives worked the case. For more than two years, it has been Yim working solo under the direction of Detective Sergeant Brandon Price of the homicide squad. While Price assists him from time to time, Yim told court he is the primary investigator. He said the case is a priority for Toronto police, a force that investigates 70 to 90 murders each year.

The lone detective and the Barry and Honey Sherman murder case

Impressive! I hope through their steadfastness they solve the case.

 

[deugirtni]

There must've been something extremely compelling to have police believing this was a murder suicide at the beginning. Surely it must be much more than 'no sign of forced entry', H having a scratch/mark on her face, etc. Dying to know what it was that led that initial theory seemingly to the exclusion of double-homicide, which from what we have heard from the crimescene, seemed rather obvious. Although LE has never stated publicly that they DID believe it was M/S in the beginning, it seems more and more obvious as time goes on and more information is released, that that is exactly what they thought, ie videos written-over by the time they asked for them, etc. imo.

 

[MistyWaters]

Misty, just as you sometimes question the veracity of KD’s supposed “sources”, I have absolutely no belief in the accuracy or reliability of whatever TPS sources Joe Warmington claims to have. JMO

As I recall, this was a spoken comment directly from TPS during a prior press conference.

 

[MistyWaters]

There must've been something extremely compelling to have police believing this was a murder suicide at the beginning. Surely it must be much more than 'no sign of forced entry', H having a scratch/mark on her face, etc. Dying to know what it was that led that initial theory seemingly to the exclusion of double-homicide, which from what we have heard from the crimescene, seemed rather obvious. Although LE has never stated publicly that they DID believe it was M/S in the beginning, it seems more and more obvious as time goes on and more information is released, that that is exactly what they thought, ie videos written-over by the time they asked for them, etc. imo.

I think so too but we really don’t know many details, mostly just more leaks. The thing is TPS seemed quite content for the rumours to circulate for the first while. Why not, an opportune time to interview people to determine where they stood. Maybe the TPS leaker wasn’t close to the investigation and his source was intentionally misleading, someone who was trying to influence public opinion. It worked to a certain extent - here there’s still m/s debate from time to time. I wonder if we’ll ever learn the complete story?

 

[CAMBRIAN]

I think so too but we really don’t know many details, mostly just more leaks. The thing is TPS seemed quite content for the rumours to circulate for the first while. Why not, an opportune time to interview people to determine where they stood. Maybe the TPS leaker wasn’t close to the investigation and his source was intentionally misleading, someone who was trying to influence public opinion. It worked to a certain extent - here there’s still m/s debate from time to time. I wonder if we’ll ever learn the complete story?

MistyWaters:
Just curious, why would someone try to influence public opinion ? For what purpose in your opinion ?

 

[BaffleMe]

I think so too but we really don’t know many details, mostly just more leaks. The thing is TPS seemed quite content for the rumours to circulate for the first while. Why not, an opportune time to interview people to determine where they stood. Maybe the TPS leaker wasn’t close to the investigation and his source was intentionally misleading, someone who was trying to influence public opinion. It worked to a certain extent - here there’s still m/s debate from time to time. I wonder if we’ll ever learn the complete story?

Sorry; I got lost on TPS leaker. A cop leaked info? What info?

 

[deugirtni]

I think so too but we really don’t know many details, mostly just more leaks. The thing is TPS seemed quite content for the rumours to circulate for the first while. Why not, an opportune time to interview people to determine where they stood. Maybe the TPS leaker wasn’t close to the investigation and his source was intentionally misleading, someone who was trying to influence public opinion. It worked to a certain extent - here there’s still m/s debate from time to time. I wonder if we’ll ever learn the complete story?

It would be nice to think that TPS did know from the start that it was a double homicide, and that they were merely letting the rumours run around to their possible strategic advantage, but as time has gone on, and KD has reported on more and more court documents he's been successful in having released, it seems that TPS did in fact believe it to be M/S for the first few weeks. At least that is what I am gathering from the court docs.

 

[Window21]

How the investigation into the deaths of Barry and Honey Sherman turned from murder-suicide to double homicide

And:
Barry and Honey Sherman were murdered, private investigators claim

These two articles explain almost everything about how the M/S came about

<modsnip: As per Copyright Rules, direct quotes or copy/paste from paywalled articles are not allowed>

 

[MistyWaters]

MistyWaters:
Just curious, why would someone try to influence public opinion ? For what purpose in your opinion ?

The way I see it, the only person who would have an interest in influencing public opinion must be a strong suspect because of course juries are comprised of members of the public.

 

[Bobbi Pearl]

It would be nice to think that TPS did know from the start that it was a double homicide, and that they were merely letting the rumours run around to their possible strategic advantage, but as time has gone on, and KD has reported on more and more court documents he's been successful in having released, it seems that TPS did in fact believe it to be M/S for the first few weeks. At least that is what I am gathering from the court docs.

A new thought - What if the perp forced Barry to strangle Honey, (knowing BS physically would have difficulty holding that pressure for the length of time to actually kill someone maybe forcing him to attach slip ties and then tighten), threatening to harm his children or grandchildren as the control to make him do so? Then the perp killed BS spending the time to make his death and only his death look like suicide?