Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #4

[AddyFinch]

Car was removed without a bag, therefore inside ident and removal of box?
It had plates, couldn't see tag.
Guess TPS still has control of scene, and private investigators are cooling their heels for the time being.
I wonder if they had automatic garage door openers inside their vehicles, or if garage was coded.
Personally I would be too lazy to use that underground. Much more simple to park by front door and run in.

 

[JDG]

Car was removed without a bag, therefore inside ident and removal of box?
It had plates, couldn't see tag.
Guess TPS still has control of scene, and private investigators are cooling their heels for the time being.
I wonder if they had automatic garage door openers inside their vehicles, or if garage was coded.
Personally I would be too lazy to use that underground. Much more simple to park by front door and run in.

It was an older model, might have been restored or something?

 

[AddyFinch]

https://www.ctvnews.ca/video?playlistId=1.3761081

 

[Grey-St]

Having trouble locating the cp24 link concerning the car, was it a video?

It was top of the news around the time we all posted. Not so much now.

Yeah it was just a brief, live segment on the evening news.

 

[BUF]

https://www.ctvnews.ca/video?playlistId=1.3761081

Thanks. Looks like it came from the garage.

 

[Wyle_E_Coyote]

IMO, I don’t think BS would drive the Mustang convertible in the cold and snow, or are the vehicles being moved out one by one for examination?

We had a mustang convertible for many years. We lived in Michigan at the time. We would *never* drive it in cold weather, we parked it for the winter starting in November. I can't emphasize enough how absolutely horrible the mustangs are in any kind of weather. We actually bought it from a neighbor, and he parked it every winter as well. I can't believe they would have been driving it recently, not when they have other cars available.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

 

[Jackeee]

Does anyone know when the TPS search warrant expires for the Sherman home?

 

[AddyFinch]

I’m off the fence, this is double murder.
I am surprised it took police so long to seize another car for exam.
My understanding is search warrants are short duration and specific. They would just go back to get another one if needed.
I fear this will be another TPS cold case.

 

[deugirtni]

Just curious , does anyone believe the police still haven’t figured out if it was a double murder or murder/suicide.
Surely after a month of combing the house and digging deep they must have at least established this.
If it’s a double murder, why are they so silent?
I find the media’s disinterest stunning.
Is the silence the result of lawsuit threats.
Ok I’m not in Canada, but two of your wealthiest citizens may have been murdered in their own home and all there is, is silence.

The media is far from disinterested. I suspect they are pretty much camping out at the S residence, at least until police release the property. Interesting however(?) that CTV news was there with a camera/cameraman in time to film the Mustang being removed from the garage?

 

[Hazel]

Sending a message..
imo, speculation, fwiw, rbbm.

Entertainment executive Jose Menendez and his wife were murdered in their Beverly Hills mansion in a fashion typical of mob-style executions, informed law enforcement sources said Tuesday.

"It was definitely a message killing," said a source familiar with the slayings. "There's no question it's organized crime."

Investigators believe that at least two hit men, wielding 12-gauge shotguns, confronted Menendez, 45, and his wife, Kitty, 44, as they watched television in their home on the evening of Aug. 20 and shot them at close range.

Coup de Grace
Fueling speculation in investigative circles that the killers intended to send a message to others was the kind of coup de grace administered to Menendez.

As described by a law enforcement source, a shotgun barrel was thrust into Menendez's mouth, undoubtedly after he was dead, and a final blast blew off the back of his head.



Beverly Hills police have refused to divulge details of the slayings and have maintained publicly that the double-homicide may not necessarily have been the work of professional hit men.

But knowledgeable law enforcement sources, who asked not to be identified, told The Times that investigators "are proceeding along the lines" that the slayings were done in classic mob fashion.

Menendez and his wife were found slain by their two college-age sons, Lyle, 21, and Eric, 18, who had been out for the evening.


Nothing of value was missing from the house, according to Lyle Menendez.

Police found doors to the home unlocked, with no signs of forcible entry, a law enforcement source said.

The Menendez family apparently had a habit of leaving doors unlocked, he said, and "someone must have known" about this practice.

August 1989
http://articles.latimes.com/1989-08-30/local/me-1259_1_mob-style

The Menendez murders were cited not because of the perps and reasons in that crime, but because it involved the murder of a husband and wife, took place at home without witnesses, but where someone known to them ( their sons) would find them, it was rumoured that they did not lock doors, there was no sign of forced entry, LE spent an inordinate amount of time examining the scene and ultimately, i posted that " strange citation " because one victim was subjected to further violence after death.
Still on the fence.
imo, speculation.

rsbm
With all due respect dotr, I'm not following why you are quoting the Menendez murders in BS and HS case.

There were no hired hit men, and no message in that case. Jose Menendez, 45, and his wife, Kitty, 44 were murdered by their two sons Lyle, 21, and Eric, 18.

 

[dotr]

rsbm
With all due respect dotr, I'm not following why you are quoting the Menendez murders in BS and HS case.

There were no hired hit men, and no message in that case. Jose Menendez, 45, and his wife, Kitty, 44 were murdered by their two sons Lyle, 21, and Eric, 18.

Omg, so focused on the "matching" details to my search criteria that i completely failed to note that the sons were eventually found responsible. So sorry to all, absolutely no intention to suggest such a scenario in this case!
Thanks for pointing that out.

 

[Tighthead]

Omg, so focused on the "matching" details to my search criteria that i completely failed to note that the sons were eventually found responsible. So sorry to all, absolutely no intention to suggest such a scenario in this case!
Thanks for pointing that out.

I wasn’t going to get into a debate on the issue...

In a roundabout way it supports my point that the message being sent in most murders is to the victim, and the message is “I want you dead”. I can’t see the Sherman murders being a message to anyone but them.

 

[dotr]

I wasn’t going to get into a debate on the issue...

In a roundabout way it supports my point that the message being sent in most murders is to the victim, and the message is “I want you dead”. I can’t see the Sherman murders being a message to anyone but them.

Wondering what would make someone angry enough to kill HS and to kill her first?
speculation, imo.

 

[JDG]

Wondering what would make someone angry enough to kill HS and to kill her first?
speculation, imo.

Im not sure there was a 'first' and 'second' murder. I suspect there were a couple or more perps, one per person to do the deed and a couple of lookouts/assistants. IMO

The Shermans were probably attacked from behind, saw nothing and were incapacitated very quickly. IMO

Some have speculated that HS would be killed first to make BS suffer. I don't believe killers think that way, they're there to get it over and done with quickly and get out. To a hit man, its simply business. IMO

 

[Ava_TO]

Wondering what would make someone angry enough to kill HS and to kill her first?
speculation, imo.

If it is, as I personally suspect, a professional job... perhaps Honey was killed in front of Barry as part of the "punishment". I really do think it will turn out to be linked to someone (of the hundreds of people) Barry was battling in court. I imagine the notion of someone trying to take over your intellectual property--a patent that you had perhaps spent your entire life's work to create--could push a particular type of personality right over the edge, to seek revenge, to seek ultimate victory. Just a theory, MOO, etc...

 

[JDG]

If it is, as I personally suspect, a professional job... perhaps Honey was killed in front of Barry as part of the "punishment". I really do think it will turn out to be linked to someone (of the hundreds of people) Barry was battling in court. I imagine the notion of someone trying to take over your intellectual property--a patent that you had perhaps spent your entire life's work to create--could push a particular type of personality right over the edge, to seek revenge, to seek ultimate victory. Just a theory, MOO, etc...

BS had been doing that for decades without physical repercussions, as far as we know. IMO
More recently, he had broadened his investing into some of the larger real estate (condo) developments going on all over the city. IMO
Possibly, he took his pugnacious demeanour into a different milieu and it was less than appreciated. IMO

As you say, the list is long but I agree that its probably a professional hit. IMO

 

[BUF]

I was watching this video of the mustang being towed again. Something seems off to me...anyone else? As the tow truck backed up down the driveway, it had a chain pulling up the mustang from the front of the car. When the truck pulled away, it was the reverse, with the back of the mustang toward the tow truck.

Just a guess, but the mustang was probably backed into the garage. I wonder if this is the way BS usually parked his car.

Tape was put across the door after it was towed up, visibly for the cameras. Why not done in the garage before towing up?

https://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/second-vehicle-towed-from-sherman-mansion-1.3761524

 

[AddyFinch]

RWD.
Pulled up from garage with chain, but would need to be towed backwards d/t RWD.
I bet tow truck didn't fit in garage, or unable to manouver properly down there.
They would have needed to get into car in garage to stick in neutral, therefore sealing the car after they were finished pulling it up.
I see lots of Mustangs in winter??

 

[dotr]

https://www.cp24.com/news/second-vehicle-removed-from-sherman-home-by-police-1.3761921

Second vehicle removed from Sherman home by police

A vehicle is towed away from the home of Honey and Barry Sherman by police Monday January 15, 2018

.

“I think the investigators are doing their due diligence,” Ryan said. “That vehicle that was taken from the home – that would not be the first time that they’ve gone through that car. That vehicle was at the home since the initial stages of the investigation – somebody would have searched that vehicle because it may have had the keys to this entire mystery.

“The fact that they’re taking it now, it just suggests that they’re going to make sure the i’s are dotted and the t’s are crossed. They’ll examine it forensically. Perhaps they just didn‘t have enough room in the forensics base and that’s why they’re taking it out now.”

Ryan said the amount of scrutiny on the investigation is likely driving police to sift through every possible piece of evidence before making any conclusions on the case.

“Imagine the tremendous amount of pressure that those investigators are under,” said Ryan, a former homicide detective. “They know that the moment they release the house back to the family, that it’s going to be turned over to a bunch of private investigators with their own forensic teams. So they want to make sure they haven’t missed anything.”

rbbm.

 

[Tortoise]

What can't be tested within the garage that can be tested elsewhere? It just makes more sense to me that evidence be preserved in situ rather than being dragged through the streets without a cover.