Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #6

[ldlager]

You said: KW indicated that LE Asked him if he would submit to a polygraph, which he evidently refused. It seems to me that he would have also spouted off to the press about being asked to provide a DNA sample if LE had asked him. If one assumes they didnt ask him if he was willing to submit one, can we then assume that LE have found no DNA at the scene that doesn’t belong to bs, Hs, or other individuals already identified?




I said.. I doubt that LE has asked for DNA, and I doubt we can speculate that no DNA was found at the scene based on not asking for DNA, since... at least up to minimum 6 weeks post-murders, they had not even bothered to interview KW, who seems like he would've been one of the first ones that should have been interviewed, imho.

Why they waited 6 weeks is beyond me. He seems their most easily identifiable suspect. LE would have looked stupid if he got hit by a bus in the interim. But having said that, why not ask for DNA while he is there? Let him say no. Imo the police may in fact have no DNA evidence at the scene that hasn’t already been identified.

 

[Breamworthy]

I assumed all Jews worshipped God until I met Barry Sherman. Because Barry didn't believe in God, did this couple participate in the practices and the traditions of the Jewish people who do worship Jehovah or did they separate themselves from it? Did they attend a synogogue? Wouldn't Christmas be meaningless for them?

I grew up on the outskirts of Forest Hill, so my classes growing up were 90+ percent Jewish. It's extremely common to be a "secular Jew" and follow historical traditions without believing in god. Probably 1/3 to 1/2 of the families I grew up around fell into this category. Only a small fraction of Jews attend temple regularly, although many more go on the high holidays.

Of course, there are specific orthodox communities (like if you go further north up Bathurst) where almost everyone believes in god and attends synagogue weekly or more, but that's a very different community.

 

[ilovepierre]

I assumed all Jews worshipped God until I met Barry Sherman. Because Barry didn't believe in God, did this couple participate in the practices and the traditions of the Jewish people who do worship Jehovah or did they separate themselves from it? Did they attend a synogogue? Wouldn't Christmas be meaningless for them?

They weren't overly religious.
Barry was described as being an atheist.
Honey may have practiced some Jewish traditions, though.
I'm unsure if they celebrated Hanukkah or even Christmas for that matter,

IMO

 

[MrsThreadgoode]

Am I correct in my belief that one of the orphans chose not to be a part of the lawsuits?

I remember reading that, but I can’t find the article I read that in.

Does anyone remember the name of that son? Does anyone know why he didn’t choose to go along with his brothers’ lawsuit?

Thank you.


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[Tortoise]

Diana Swain on The Investigators covered the challenges of covering the murders on the Fifth Estate and presenting opinions.

Sounds like they may have they edited out some things that they felt should not be publicized pending the police investigation.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/theinvestiga...-the-investigators-with-diana-swain-1.4518478

So I gather from this that they filmed KW talking about Barry's alleged plot to kill Honey before the police announced it was double murder. I don't know why the program left me with the impression he was saying that after the police announcement.

 

[Tortoise]

Am I correct in my belief that one of the orphans chose not to be a part of the lawsuits?

I remember reading that, but I can’t find the article I read that in.

Does anyone remember the name of that son? Does anyone know why he didn’t choose to go along with his brothers’ lawsuit?

Thank you.


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Has The Star got it wrong?

"On Dec. 6, Justice Hood ordered a $300,000 cost award against cousins Kerry Winter, Paul Barkin, Jeffrey Barkin and Julia Winter (she was representing her late husband, Dana Winter, in the suit)."

https://www.thestar.com/news/canada...000-the-week-before-they-were-found-dead.html

 

[Tighthead]

Two theories on why police had yet to interview KW:

1) They have a suspect or suspects and are just doing other interviews to rule out suggestions if tunnel vision. His public statements mean they have to look into him - otherwise it is good material for a defence lawyer.

2) He is a serious suspect but they want all loose ends tied up before they question him as one of their final investigative moves.

 

[JayFriend]

Why they waited 6 weeks is beyond me. He [KW] seems their most easily identifiable suspect. LE would have looked stupid if he got hit by a bus in the interim. But having said that, why not ask for DNA while he is there? Let him say no. Imo the police may in fact have no DNA evidence at the scene that hasn’t already been identified.

We don't know at what point LE started looking at this as a double homicide instead of a murder suicide.

 

[ohreally]

Why they waited 6 weeks is beyond me. He seems their most easily identifiable suspect. LE would have looked stupid if he got hit by a bus in the interim. But having said that, why not ask for DNA while he is there? Let him say no. Imo the police may in fact have no DNA evidence at the scene that hasn’t already been identified.

Has KW been arrested before? Is it possible his DNA is already in a data base?

 

[MrsThreadgoode]

Has The Star got it wrong?

"On Dec. 6, Justice Hood ordered a $300,000 cost award against cousins Kerry Winter, Paul Barkin, Jeffrey Barkin and Julia Winter (she was representing her late husband, Dana Winter, in the suit)."

https://www.thestar.com/news/canada...000-the-week-before-they-were-found-dead.html

Thank you Tortoise for clearing up my cloudy thinking ... I doubt very much that The Star has it wrong. I must be mistaken. [emoji4]


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[Tortoise]

I understand what you are saying and I agree that the cousins are a big part of who could of done the murders. Where I think it is victim bashing is when comments are made blaming BS for not being there for the cousins when they were growing up. We don't know why the communications stopped. For all we know he wanted a relationship and was denied.

Obviously the film makers could have been selective, but the part they chose to play had Barry saying he never had contact or a relationship with any of his cousins not just the Winter boys. With the close relationship he had with his Uncle Louis from age 9, I would have expected to hear him saying he had been denied access to the boys if that was the case. Maybe he did and they didn't play that part.

 

[dotr]

Am I correct in my belief that one of the orphans chose not to be a part of the lawsuits?

I remember reading that, but I can’t find the article I read that in.

Does anyone remember the name of that son? Does anyone know why he didn’t choose to go along with his brothers’ lawsuit?

Thank you.


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http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/winter-siblings-lawsuit-barry-sherman-1.4457330

Barry Sherman's orphaned cousins fight for cut of Apotex fortune in lawsuit appeal


Lawsuit concerns Toronto billionaire's purchase of his uncle's company 50 years ago

By Nicole Brockbank, CBC News Posted: Dec 20, 2017

Before he died, Barry Sherman was dealing with a family lawsuit that had dragged on for a decade.

The Toronto billionaire's orphaned cousins sued Sherman for a cut of his Apotex fortune in 2007. A judge dismissed the case in September as an abuse of process, but court records show they filed an appeal a month later.

Four brothers — Kerry, Jeffrey, Paul and Dana Winter — started the action a decade ago, although Dana's widow Julia is now acting as his representative, and Jeffrey is not involved in the appeal.

The Winter brothers' lawyer, Brad Teplitsky says his clients will be moving forward with their appeal because they believe the judge made legal errors in dismissing the case.

Teplitsky has been in contact with Kerry Winter since the Shermans' deaths and says Winter has "no comment at this time other than to express his sincere condolences to the Sherman family and is requesting that the media respect their privacy during this period."

rbbm

 

[SeesSeas]

Am I correct in my belief that one of the orphans chose not to be a part of the lawsuits?

I remember reading that, but I can’t find the article I read that in.

Does anyone remember the name of that son? Does anyone know why he didn’t choose to go along with his brothers’ lawsuit?

Thank you.


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I remember reading that, too. Here is what I found:
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/rep...family-feud-comes-to-the-fore/article1069800/
PUBLISHED JANUARY 29, 2007
UPDATED MARCH 27, 2017
Not all the cousins agree. Jeffrey has backed out of the lawsuit and, according to Mr. Sherman, he is furious at the others. They claim he is fearful of Mr. Sherman.

 

[BUF]

Am I correct in my belief that one of the orphans chose not to be a part of the lawsuits?

I remember reading that, but I can’t find the article I read that in.

Does anyone remember the name of that son? Does anyone know why he didn’t choose to go along with his brothers’ lawsuit?

Thank you.


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Is this what you were looking for?...

Four brothers — Kerry, Jeffrey, Paul and Dana Winter — started the action a decade ago, although Dana's widow Julia is now acting as his representative, and Jeffrey is not involved in the appeal.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/winter-siblings-lawsuit-barry-sherman-1.4457330

 

[MrsThreadgoode]

I remember reading that, too. Here is what I found:
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/rep...family-feud-comes-to-the-fore/article1069800/
PUBLISHED JANUARY 29, 2007
UPDATED MARCH 27, 2017
Not all the cousins agree. Jeffrey has backed out of the lawsuit and, according to Mr. Sherman, he is furious at the others. They claim he is fearful of Mr. Sherman.

Thank you so very much SeesSeas ... That is exactly what I remember reading!!! I am not a hopeless cause after all. [emoji4] Will re-read entire article again.


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[MrsThreadgoode]

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/winter-siblings-lawsuit-barry-sherman-1.4457330



rbbm

Thank you so much, dotr ... always so on top of everything in all the threads. Don’t know how you do it. [emoji4]


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[MrsThreadgoode]

Is this what you were looking for?...

Four brothers — Kerry, Jeffrey, Paul and Dana Winter — started the action a decade ago, although Dana's widow Julia is now acting as his representative, and Jeffrey is not involved in the appeal.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/winter-siblings-lawsuit-barry-sherman-1.4457330

Yes, thank you very much, buf. [emoji4]


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[dyannaON]

I haven’t followed the Sherman’s case since thread two. So just to confirm it is a double murder?! Thanks.


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[musicaljoke]

Not that I'm much of a business minded person but how could that clause have existed at Empire if this is the case?

At the end of the day I believe what Barry did when he sold Empire and founded Apotex was done to leave that clause behind, to wriggle out of it, but the Winter boys should have gone after Royal Trust because they were negligent not to notice the loophole Barry exploited concerning the five year clause and his share ownership being corporate.

Two things, which may have been addressed already.
1. The clause was never put into the original sale of Empire. Sherman offered it, but Royal Trust rejected the offer. This is a bit confusing because some media reports are suggesting that there was a clause in the final agreement, when the court documents make it very clear that there was no such thing.

2. When you sell a Corporation, the new buyer puts together the terms in their offer to purchase. It's nearly impossible to envision a sale in which the new owner accepts a clause stipulating that the new company must honour a third party agreement over share sales.

 

[MrsThreadgoode]

https://torontolife.com/from-the-archives/barry-sherman-bitter-pill-from-the-archives/






So if I understand it correctly...Tim didn't ask for money from BS, but joined the brothers in their suits against the bank and then BS.

Jeffrey received money/loans from BS and was not part of the lawsuit against him and BS did not ask for a return of the money/loans.

Kerry and Dana received money/loans from BS. Dana passed away. Kerry and Dana's widow were part of the lawsuit against BS. BS withdrew the loans/money from them.

Thank you Lexi ... it gets a bit confusing, and what you have written is very helpful. [emoji4]


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