Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #7

[human]

I think this stems from my post when I said that based on the method (strangulation) I didn't think this was a contract killing. I said that if it was a contract killing I think they would likely have used a gun with a silencer. I wasn't talking about advance planning, I was talking about the smaller subset of killings -- those done by contract killers/hit men. Several posters disagreed with me.

Yes, it would seem a contract killing would be in and out. All of the theatrics with the hanging are over the top.

I wonder about the housekeeper. That is a huge house to clean as well as do laundry. It would seem that more than one day a week would be required.

I wonder who kept up the pool?

 

[nuff]

Considering what we know about the crime scene, I don't think the LE is wrong. Saying this is a murder suicide is negating key evidence already confirmed. They were both bound by the wrists at one point and they both had their jackets pulled down to control their arms. They both had a belt around their necks and was tied to the rails near the pool. I am not sure how BS would strangle himself and then tie himself to the railing with his arms bound behind him.

The PIs gave the same conclusion.

Plus there is undoubtedly evidence which has not been made public.

 

[Pamela_Brewer]

Yes, it would seem a contract killing would be in and out. All of the theatrics with the hanging are over the top.

I wonder about the housekeeper. That is a huge house to clean as well as do laundry. It would seem that more than one day a week would be required.

I wonder who kept up the pool?

Hmm. I hadn't thought of the "pool boy"!
Nice job!
MOO

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

 

[ldlager]

Is your point that all detectives are exactly the same quality because they are all paid to look at evidence?

No. But she evidently received a special award or recognition for reviewing thousands of text messages to help solve a case. I think any homicide detective would have done the same in looking for evidence. Its part of the job imo

 

[andreww]

Probably more easily than I could, but the difference in statistics is significant. 69% of homicides in the US are by gun (https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/homicide.htm) while in Canada it is 36%(http://www.statcan.gc.ca/tables-tableaux/sum-som/l01/cst01/legal01-eng.htm). So evidently it is possible, but to say that it can't be a planned murder because they would have used a gun is not really an inference that can be drawn in Canada.

BBM And 90% of those are guns that are brought in illegally from the U.S.

 

[JDG]

I don't think they declared it to be a double homicide. I believe Det-Sgt Gomes said that they had "sufficient evidence to describe it as a double homicide investigation".

Its the same thing, a double homicide.

 

[AllyJane]

Wondering if " bulky " includes items such as clothing from closets if the belts used were there, bedding if B or HS had been asleep in bed, and towels in case the perp/s used them?
speculation.

Bulk items may mean a few pieces of evidence needing analysis from the same area e.g several drops of blood in the same area.

 

[Grey-St]

I think this stems from my post when I said that based on the method (strangulation) I didn't think this was a contract killing. I said that if it was a contract killing I think they would likely have used a gun with a silencer. I wasn't talking about advance planning, I was talking about the smaller subset of killings -- those done by contract killers/hit men. Several posters disagreed with me.

No worries. I think it's hard to say at the moment whether this was murder for hire or not. I do believe the manner of death has a personal touch to it, but it's difficult to know if there was assistance from a third party or not. I'm on the fence on that aspect, personally.

Side note, I'm so tired of saying "on the fence" in this case! The variables regarding the death of the Sherman's seem endless!

 

[SeesSeas]

What does this mean——-To date close to 150 bulk or packaged items have been seized and are currently being reviewed and forensically analysed

My first thought was "bulk" vs "swab" evidence. I found this:
http://www.pathcon.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/smpl_tips-bulk.pdf
SUGGESTIONS FOR COLLECTING BULK AND SWAB SAMPLES
[...]
Collect bulk samples (wallboard, carpeting, ceiling tiles, water, etc.) using sterile or sanitized utensils (knives, scissors, scoops, etc.).
[...]
Collect wipe/swab samples with the enclosed sterile swabs.
[...]
More at link.

 

[AllyJane]

I think this stems from my post when I said that based on the method (strangulation) I didn't think this was a contract killing. I said that if it was a contract killing I think they would likely have used a gun with a silencer. I wasn't talking about advance planning, I was talking about the smaller subset of killings -- those done by contract killers/hit men. Several posters disagreed with me.

I think if the goal was only to get rid of BS then a gun would have been used. But it looks like this was to make him suffer (which may be why HS was killed as well) which then a less quick method was used. The killer(s) must have known that no one would be around looking for them later that evening and knew their schedules. It seems far more personal this way.

 

[Crosby87]

Because I don’t know exactly how the bodies were positioned at the crime scene, I don't know whether BS could have committed this crime. Only LE know the answer to this question.

I believe this is a domestic violence case that ended in a murder suicide.

I believe an argument broke out between BS and HS after Barry arrived home and BS physically assaulted Honey. If Barry hated Honey and they weren’t getting along, the only place they were free to argue and express themselves fully was in their own house when no one else was around.

Did Honey and Barry argue during their meeting with the Architect and when Barry arrived home, Barry lost control of himself because no one could stop him and he attacked Honey?

If Barry did physically assault Honey that night, how will he react? What are his option?

That Honey, a woman, was physically beaten but not Barry when they were alone in their house, is what generally happens in a domestic violence case. When a couple argues, they are face to face, and the man doesn’t have a weapon in their hand so they use their fists, which is exactly what happened here.

A lot of people knew this couple weren’t getting along for a very long time, so to suspect this is a domestic violence case that resulted in murder is a reasonable assumption.

 

[Crosby87]

I dont think he planned it...it just happened and he had to cover up and checked himself out.MOO

Yup. A crime of passion refers to a violent crime, especially homicide, in which the perpetrator commits the act against someone in response to a sudden strong impulse such as sudden rage rather than as a premeditated crime.

 

[Grey-St]

Because I don’t know exactly how the bodies were positioned at the crime scene, I don't know whether BS could have committed this crime. Only LE know the answer to this question.

I believe this is a domestic violence case that ended in a murder suicide.

I believe an argument broke out between BS and HS after Barry arrived home and BS physically assaulted Honey. If Barry hated Honey and they weren’t getting along, the only place they were free to argue and express themselves fully was in their own house when no one else was around.

Did Honey and Barry argue during their meeting with the Architect and when Barry arrived home, Barry lost control of himself because no one could stop him and he attacked Honey?

If Barry did physically assault Honey that night, how will he react? What are his option?

That Honey, a woman, was physically beaten but not Barry when they were alone in their house, is what generally happens in a domestic violence case. When a couple argues, they are face to face, and the man doesn’t have a weapon in their hand so they use their fists, which is exactly what happened here.

A lot of people knew this couple weren’t getting along for a very long time, so to suspect this is a domestic violence case that resulted in murder is a reasonable assumption.

You're entitled to your opinion, but I just don't see how anyone can reasonably come to this conclusion given the information we have.

"Only LE knows the answer to this question" correct, and they've given us that answer.

"Which is exactly what happened here" no, you don't know that to be true.

No one has ever stated that this couple "wasn't getting along for a very long time", they have commented on how as individuals, they were different people. That is not a correlation to domestic violence.

 

[kay74]

I'm wondering if this method they used to kill them, is something done in foreign countries. I wonder if it was foreigners that did this.

 

[AllyJane]

Because I don’t know exactly how the bodies were positioned at the crime scene, I don't know whether BS could have committed this crime. Only LE know the answer to this question.

I believe this is a domestic violence case that ended in a murder suicide.

I believe an argument broke out between BS and HS after Barry arrived home and BS physically assaulted Honey. If Barry hated Honey and they weren’t getting along, the only place they were free to argue and express themselves fully was in their own house when no one else was around.

Did Honey and Barry argue during their meeting with the Architect and when Barry arrived home, Barry lost control of himself because no one could stop him and he attacked Honey?

If Barry did physically assault Honey that night, how will he react? What are his option?

That Honey, a woman, was physically beaten but not Barry when they were alone in their house, is what generally happens in a domestic violence case. When a couple argues, they are face to face, and the man doesn’t have a weapon in their hand so they use their fists, which is exactly what happened here.

A lot of people knew this couple weren’t getting along for a very long time, so to suspect this is a domestic violence case that resulted in murder is a reasonable assumption.

There has been no evidence that they didnt get along. Not one person (other than KW with a 20 year old alleged conversation which was shown as false on the lie detector) has said that the marriage was in bad shape. Actually a lot of their friends have come forward to state otherwise.

Please show a link that shows that a lot of people knew this couple weren't getting along for a long time. I have yet to see anything.

 

[AllyJane]

Because I don’t know exactly how the bodies were positioned at the crime scene, I don't know whether BS could have committed this crime. Only LE know the answer to this question.

I believe this is a domestic violence case that ended in a murder suicide.

I believe an argument broke out between BS and HS after Barry arrived home and BS physically assaulted Honey. If Barry hated Honey and they weren’t getting along, the only place they were free to argue and express themselves fully was in their own house when no one else was around.

Did Honey and Barry argue during their meeting with the Architect and when Barry arrived home, Barry lost control of himself because no one could stop him and he attacked Honey?

If Barry did physically assault Honey that night, how will he react? What are his option?

That Honey, a woman, was physically beaten but not Barry when they were alone in their house, is what generally happens in a domestic violence case. When a couple argues, they are face to face, and the man doesn’t have a weapon in their hand so they use their fists, which is exactly what happened here.

A lot of people knew this couple weren’t getting along for a very long time, so to suspect this is a domestic violence case that resulted in murder is a reasonable assumption.

LE has said that the bodies were both tied by belts to the railings in a semi-seated position with backs to the pool. Jackets were pulled back to help bound their arms. Greenspan stated the autopsy shows that both of their hands were bound at one point (although it is not clear if HS and BS were bound to each other or just their own wrists were bound ). LE has not disputed this information. These are all facts that have been reported in MSM for a couple of weeks.

 

[hudunit]

I tested the belt method on my bannister.Looped belt through buckle.Tied end to railing.Put loop around neck.Pulled sweater down to elbows and leaned forward.The belt tightened and if I leaned forward hard enough and long enough I am sure it would have choked me.

 

[Myles]

For your safety, I hope you had someone else around when you did this.

 

[Sillybilly]

To our knowledge there was no gun involved in this case at all, so please drop that part of the discussion.

Thanks.

 

[AllyJane]

I tested the belt method on my bannister.Looped belt through buckle.Tied end to railing.Put loop around neck.Pulled sweater down to elbows and leaned forward.The belt tightened and if I leaned forward hard enough and long enough I am sure it would have choked me.

Did you have something to tie your wrists back and have that removed after you would have passed out? I think that was part of the autopsy as reported by Greenspan (not refuted by LE)