Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #7

[rhenium]

1. Find me an empirical stidy that directly correlates recovery from cancer and ending a marriage to support the assertion that you have now doubled down on - nothing anecdotal.

2. You are admitting you don’t know.

4. We don’t know why they chose to list it, but to say it is a result of marital breakdown isn’t logical. They were putting it on the market because it was part of whatever’s plan they had.
5. Again, pure speculation. Saying nothing is appropriate for both her clients privacy and the investigation.

If the marriage was over over why would they both meet with the architect? Why were they still living under the same roof? Why were they spending time in Florida together over the holiday?

Wouldn’t have anecdotal stories.I can give you empirical data that supports my actual statement, that is, people often make major life changes after recovering from a serious illness. Since you decided to fixate on cancer and divorce, I’ll exclude other life changes and relationship situations to make it simpler. This is empirical data from individuals or summaries by professionals knowledgeable in the subject matter. The break-up could be initiated or caused by either party. To avoid semantics, I want to point out that these life changing decisions could be made and/or acted upon during the illness or after recovery.

(The copied excerpts are the only relevant parts, the rest of the articles deal with other issues.)

It’s the kind of transformation that Debra Horsman, programme manager at The Haven, a breast cancer support centre in Leeds, has seen many times. ‘Breast cancer is a massive wake-up call,’ she says. ‘For a start, it makes you think what may have caused it, looking at diet, lifestyle and stress.
'That may lead you to change your career or end your marriage. It’s often assumed that it’s the man walking out because he can’t cope – but the number of times women have said to me, “I’ve put up with him for so long. Not any more!”’
Survivors also want to enjoy every moment. ‘It doesn’t matter if you’re 24 or 85, we all have things we want to do,’ says Horsman. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/lifestyle/9615701/Life-after-breast-cancer-three-survivors-stories.html

Overall, though, following a diagnosis of breast cancer, as many women leave their husbands as are left by husbands. They don't want to waste their time in an unfulfilling, unhappy marriage. http://www.breastcancer.org/tips/intimacy/partner

For some survivors, a cancer diagnosis inspires the desire to make healthier choices in their lives, and that may include ending an unhealthy relationship. Mike Uhl, MA, MDiv, LMFT, Mind-Body Therapist at Cancer Treatment Centers of America[SUP]®[/SUP] (CTCA) in Newnan, Georgia, says that issues that arise in a relationship during cancer can make patients aware of problems and inspire them to make changes. “They may recognize, now I have a different direction in life, but the other person isn’t really interested in this new direction,” Uhl says. “Like any other crisis, if one person feels like he or she has developed or changed, and the other person hasn’t grown, they can outgrow each other.” http://www.cancerfightersthrive.com/cancer-and-divorce/

This is a strong woman's story:

Annabel, 56, said: ‘I made a bucket list and the first thing was to leave my husband. I had a good life but just felt completely trapped and wanted to break free.

‘Knowing I had a short time to go I knew I couldn’t live the rest of my life just being a housewife.’
http://metro.co.uk/2017/05/14/woman...nd-after-being-diagnosed-with-cancer-6636621/

 

[Ritika]

Wouldn’t have anecdotal stories.I can give you empirical data that supports my actual statement, that is, people often make major life changes after recovering from a serious illness. Since you decided to fixate on cancer and divorce, I’ll exclude other life changes and relationship situations to make it simpler. This is empirical data from individuals or summaries by professionals knowledgeable in the subject matter. The break-up could be initiated or caused by either party. To avoid semantics, I want to point out that these life changing decisions could be made and/or acted upon during the illness or after recovery.

(The copied excerpts are the only relevant parts, the rest of the articles deal with other issues.)




This is a strong woman's story:

Well not everyone makes drastic changes..... I am in remission for 4 years now from a serious cancer and I did not change a thing in my life or in my relationships.

BTW, HS had throat cancer.

 

[AllyJane]

Wouldn’t have anecdotal stories.I can give you empirical data that supports my actual statement, that is, people often make major life changes after recovering from a serious illness. Since you decided to fixate on cancer and divorce, I’ll exclude other life changes and relationship situations to make it simpler. This is empirical data from individuals or summaries by professionals knowledgeable in the subject matter. The break-up could be initiated or caused by either party. To avoid semantics, I want to point out that these life changing decisions could be made and/or acted upon during the illness or after recovery.

(The copied excerpts are the only relevant parts, the rest of the articles deal with other issues.)




This is a strong woman's story:

But there is ZERO evidence of any friction in the Sherman marriage. They were building a house together. Their friends and family said that there were no issues in the marriage. I am not understanding why you are pushing a scenario that there is no evidence to support. Just because a woman dumps her husband after cancer, doesn't mean all people do. BS had prostrate cancer. Their marriage didn't split. They were in their 70's. Are you implying that this was a murder suicide which LE has already is not the case?

 

[nuff]

Police chief Mark Saunders facing non-confidence membership vote
http://toronto.citynews.ca/2018/02/...unders-facing-non-confidence-membership-vote/

The police union is very unhappy with the efforts to modernize TPS and make it more effective & efficient. Saunders is not doing this autonymously; the Police Board wants it done. Saunders is the union's scapegoat, IMO, and they are throwing in any and all recent cases where TPS has attracted criticism, fairly or not.

 

[Grey-St]

The police union is very unhappy with the efforts to modernize TPS and make it more effective & efficient. Saunders is not doing this autonymously; the Police Board wants it done. Saunders is the union's scapegoat, IMO, and they are throwing in any and all recent cases where TPS has attracted criticism, fairly or not.

This isn't Saunders specific doing, by any means. But as a police chief, when numerous cases are being mishandled, the way things are being run, (policies, procedures, training, culture, competency), within your organization, is going to be questioned. That's our police chief's responsibility.

 

[AllyJane]

The police union is very unhappy with the efforts to modernize TPS and make it more effective & efficient. Saunders is not doing this autonymously; the Police Board wants it done. Saunders is the union's scapegoat, IMO, and they are throwing in any and all recent cases where TPS has attracted criticism, fairly or not.

The problem is that TPS has a poor track record for solving murders. While that may have begun well before Saunders became Chief, it is not looking good for him. Too many cases were screwed up very publicly. (MacArthur, Richey, Babcock, hopefully not this one).

 

[Crosby87]

I think that's an interesting point, re. her recovery. I can see that also playing into the build of their new home. Seize the moment, seize life, and just go for it. The new build was large, but was also being designed to have all the accommodations necessary for them to age gracefully.

Additionally, I really see zero evidence that their relationship was in turmoil. No need to avoid each other, imo.

RBBM

Most couples will only get into a heated argument in their own home when no one else is around. The Sherman's were alone in their house when Honey was hit in her face suggesting the killer was standing directly in front of her and didn't want to listen to her.

At their funeral, their son Jonathan said "Lauren, you deserve amazing credit for paving the way for me and the girls," Jonathon told his older sister in remarks that hinted that Barry and Honey weren't always on the same wavelength. "I know it was hard to be an only child when yin and yang were maybe not so balanced,[/B] but your free spirit and ability to love life is perhaps your greatest tribute to mom and dad."

Friends close to the couple describe signs of discord in the Sherman's marriage, such as public ribbing about Barry's devotion to work, but they viewed it as shtick. Everyone the Globe and Mail spoke with over the past week has been incredulous at the police's initial theory that it could be murder-suicide. There have been no further details from police about the case.

Interviews with friends, court records, Barry's memoirs and public tributes at the couple's memorial Thursday paint a portrait of two people with outsized personalities who were polar opposites."

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/new...-honey-sherman-apotex-deaths/article37424109/

 

[dotr]

Thinking that HS was very strong despite her health issues, she could knock BS out.

Coincidental, but gives pause, imo...When found, HS had some facial injuries, early in the video HS states that she will " try to work hard to not fall flat on my face, the night of.. "
imo, speculation.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q-WYZ6WOhBA

 

[Crosby87]

The problem is that TPS has a poor track record for solving murders. While that may have begun well before Saunders became Chief, it is not looking good for him. Too many cases were screwed up very publicly. (MacArthur, Richey, Babcock, hopefully not this one).

It sure is disheartening to hear Mayor John Tory say he still has complete confidence in Saunders when Police Association boss Mike McCormack told CityNews the non confidence vote was launched out of frustration.

So many people in denial even when presented with the truth of the matter.

“We have been talking to the mayor, to the chief, to the chair of the police service board for quite some time, trying to resolve this crisis in policing, this crisis in staffing,” said McCormack. “And again, we’re not against modernization but definitely the way that they are moving towards this, we believe it is an irresponsible way that is jeopardizing public safety, officer safety and the well being of our members.” The union commissioned a survey at the end of 2016 which revealed morale to be at an all-time low among front line police officers. Union head Mike McCormack has also warned public safety is at risk because of understaffing and a “mass exodus” of officers looking for jobs elsewhere. An agreement was reached last August to hire 80 new officers despite a hiring freeze.

McCormack says in the first six weeks of this year alone, 81 police officers have left the force.

“We have fewer officers answering radio calls, people are calling and they’re involved in domestic disputes, assaults, sexual assaults where they are waiting hours and hours for police officers to arrive. And our officers, the first words out of their mouths are, ‘Sorry it took us so long.'”

 

[Crosby87]

Thinking that HS was very strong despite her health issues, she could knock BS out.

Coincidental, but gives pause, imo...When found, HS had some facial injuries, early in the video HS states that she will " try to work hard to not fall flat on my face, the night of.. "
imo, speculation.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q-WYZ6WOhBA

Honey didn't 'fall on her face' when she was dancing and I doubt she caused the injuries she sustained to her face Wednesday evening.

Even though people appear to be healthy and strong on the outside, they can be suffering internally.

 

[PaulR]

“We have fewer officers answering radio calls, people are calling and they’re involved in domestic disputes, assaults, sexual assaults where they are waiting hours and hours for police officers to arrive. And our officers, the first words out of their mouths are, ‘Sorry it took us so long.'”

When seconds matter, the police are hours away. Inexcusable.

 

[dotr]

Honey didn't 'fall on her face' when she was dancing and I doubt she caused the injuries she sustained to her face Wednesday evening.

Even though people appear to be healthy and strong on the outside, they can be suffering internally.

Just wondered if the killer had seen ( and vengefully responded ) to that video comment, by injuring HS's face and leaving it ( her face ) flat on the floor.
speculation.imo.
https://ca.news.yahoo.com/barry-honey-sherman-were-murdered-144932850.html

Private investigators also believe that Honey struggled with her killer or killers. She had cuts on her lip and nose, and was sitting in a pool of her own blood when she was discovered. However, there was comparatively little blood apparent on her upper-body clothing, suggesting that she had been face-down on the tile, bleeding, for some time before being bound to the handrail in an upright position, the source said.

rbbm.

 

[Errrr]

Thinking that HS was very strong despite her health issues, she could knock BS out.

Coincidental, but gives pause, imo...When found, HS had some facial injuries, early in the video HS states that she will " try to work hard to not fall flat on my face, the night of.. "
imo, speculation.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q-WYZ6WOhBA

What if she was pushed down the stairs to the basement?

 

[Grey-St]

RBBM

Most couples will only get into a heated argument in their own home when no one else is around. The Sherman's were alone in their house when Honey was hit in her face suggesting the killer was standing directly in front of her and didn't want to listen to her.

At their funeral, their son Jonathan said "Lauren, you deserve amazing credit for paving the way for me and the girls," Jonathon told his older sister in remarks that hinted that Barry and Honey weren't always on the same wavelength. "I know it was hard to be an only child when yin and yang were maybe not so balanced,[/B] but your free spirit and ability to love life is perhaps your greatest tribute to mom and dad."

Friends close to the couple describe signs of discord in the Sherman's marriage, such as public ribbing about Barry's devotion to work, but they viewed it as shtick. Everyone the Globe and Mail spoke with over the past week has been incredulous at the police's initial theory that it could be murder-suicide. There have been no further details from police about the case.

Interviews with friends, court records, Barry's memoirs and public tributes at the couple's memorial Thursday paint a portrait of two people with outsized personalities who were polar opposites."

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/new...-honey-sherman-apotex-deaths/article37424109/

Yeah, we've already addressed this. Being yin and yang, or polar opposites is not uncommon. It's actually defined as being different, but harmonious. Additionally, "discord" was a word the journalist used. Ribbing, teasing or a "shtick" is just that, mutual banter. Discord also does not equate domestic violence.

 

[AllyJane]

RBBM

Most couples will only get into a heated argument in their own home when no one else is around. The Sherman's were alone in their house when Honey was hit in her face suggesting the killer was standing directly in front of her and didn't want to listen to her.

At their funeral, their son Jonathan said "Lauren, you deserve amazing credit for paving the way for me and the girls," Jonathon told his older sister in remarks that hinted that Barry and Honey weren't always on the same wavelength. "I know it was hard to be an only child when yin and yang were maybe not so balanced,[/B] but your free spirit and ability to love life is perhaps your greatest tribute to mom and dad."

Friends close to the couple describe signs of discord in the Sherman's marriage, such as public ribbing about Barry's devotion to work, but they viewed it as shtick. Everyone the Globe and Mail spoke with over the past week has been incredulous at the police's initial theory that it could be murder-suicide. There have been no further details from police about the case.

Interviews with friends, court records, Barry's memoirs and public tributes at the couple's memorial Thursday paint a portrait of two people with outsized personalities who were polar opposites."

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/new...-honey-sherman-apotex-deaths/article37424109/

I think this was address a while back. No one said anything about discord. Many people marry their opposite and they complement each other. My parents did it as did I. There was no record of friends and family saying there was any discord in the relationship. ACtually the son said they were like a lock and key - useless without each other.

Who says the Shermans were alone in their house? The killers (which LE and PI agree that this was a targetted double murder) were there. You are making a lot of assumptions here. The LE said she fought her attacker. Who said they didn't want to listen to her. She was fighting for her life.

This was a targetted murder per the LE. This was not a murder suicide. Not sure why this keeps being brought especially twisting information that isn't implying or stating marital discord.

 

[AllyJane]

Thinking that HS was very strong despite her health issues, she could knock BS out.

Coincidental, but gives pause, imo...When found, HS had some facial injuries, early in the video HS states that she will " try to work hard to not fall flat on my face, the night of.. "
imo, speculation.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q-WYZ6WOhBA

She had arthritis. I don't think she could knock out anyone out. "The trying hard not to fall flat on her face" was from her Dancing with the stars for charity event because she had arthritis that really bothered her but she took part in the event for charity.

 

[AllyJane]

What if she was pushed down the stairs to the basement?

Wouldn't there be some blood on the stairs or in that area. I was under the impression that the only pool (no pun intended) of block was near where they were hanged.

 

[Crosby87]

I think this was address a while back. No one said anything about discord. Many people marry their opposite and they complement each other. My parents did it as did I. There was no record of friends and family saying there was any discord in the relationship. ACtually the son said they were like a lock and key - useless without each other.

Who says the Shermans were alone in their house? The killers (which LE and PI agree that this was a targetted double murder) were there. You are making a lot of assumptions here. The LE said she fought her attacker. Who said they didn't want to listen to her. She was fighting for her life.

This was a targetted murder per the LE. This was not a murder suicide. Not sure why this keeps being brought especially twisting information that isn't implying or stating marital discord.

Even though seasoned investigators are working this case along with TPS, there hasn't been any progress or new developments and imo,
it's not because they are being tight lipped and don't want the killers to know they are onto them. The Sherman's died over two months ago and LE still don't have a suspect or poi. If the Sherman's were murdered, why didn't their children offer a reward for information?
LE interviewed KW and if they believed he was involved, he'd be behind bars.

 

[tmar]

Would there be regular updates from the Police, regarding the case.

 

[Grey-St]

Even though seasoned investigators are working this case along with TPS, there hasn't been any progress or new developments and imo,
it's not because they are being tight lipped and don't want the killers to know they are onto them. The Sherman's died over two months ago and LE still don't have a suspect or poi. If the Sherman's were murdered, why didn't their children offer a reward for information?
LE interviewed KW and if they believed he was involved, he'd be behind bars.

How would you know that LE doesn't have a suspect or POI? Investigations can take a long time, especially one of this magnitude. Two months is nothing to speculate over. Why would the children need to offer an award at this stage of an investigation? Awards are offered out of desperation and a plea for information, maybe neither investigative team feels that is necessary.

Who said anything about KW? We are aware that he's not behind bars.

I'm still confused over your statement that HS was punched in the face because someone didn't want to listen to her. Did you know HS? Were you there when she was murdered? What would lead you to make such a statement? Honest questions.