Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #8

[andreww]

If the murder / suicide theory were true, what would be the point of insisting otherwise??

Members of LE would deliberately refrain from doing their job so that politicians to whom they have no connection can ‘continue to get donations’ from a dead couple? Ludicrous IMOO

You have a lot more faith in the system than I do.

I also agree that a coverup of M/S is ludicrous. The matter or method demise of Barry or Honey has absolutely no impact on Apotex; the Will & Estate; or the heirs. Do you really think the heirs would or will change their intentions regarding philanthropy, based on how Barry and Honey reportedly died?

If the heirs didn't give a crap about the outcome, why were they so forceful in the early days, denouncing the police and media for even considering suicide? Lets not forget that at this point in the investigation the family had absolutely no idea what happened, and everybody knows that suicides can certainly be unexpected. So lambasting the press and police, with absolutely zero information? Seems to me that the family had made it clear that this was not the outcome that they wanted, truth be damned. Hiring Greenspan to run an parallel investigation just goes to show that they were sparing no expense to ensure that they got the outcome they wanted.

So don't try and tell me that the outcome made no difference to anybody, one way or the other. Barry Sherman's legacy is vitally important to those he left behind. Would you rather be known as the child of one of Canada's wealthiest and most successful businessmen, or as the child of the billionaire who killed his wife and then himself?

 

[WINDSOR]

andreww, What does matter to those left behind, is the truth. When the M/S rumour was discussed, I myself did not believe it, not because I give a damn about Barry's legacy but because I felt the circumstances and scenario did not suit M/S theory.
Prominent Canadians have ended their lives by suicide, the former Ontario Premier John Robarts is just one example, so the legacy is not an issue to many people.

 

[andreww]

andreww, What does matter to those left behind, is the truth. When the M/S rumour was discussed, I myself did not believe it, not because I give a damn about Barry's legacy but because I felt the circumstances and scenario did not suit M/S theory.
Prominent Canadians have ended their lives by suicide, the former Ontario Premier John Robarts is just one example, so the legacy is not an issue to many people.

Until you've experienced the stigma attached to it, you will never know. Also, this case is not just a suicide, it has the murder component attached to it as well. You can believe whatever you like, but I guarantee you that as I said from the beginning, we will likely never hear another word about this case, not from LE anyway. And unfortunately, I'll never be able to prove my theory because this case is just going to die, or should I say its already dead.

 

[MistyWaters]

You have a lot more faith in the system than I do.

If the heirs didn't give a crap about the outcome, why were they so forceful in the early days, denouncing the police and media for even considering suicide? Lets not forget that at this point in the investigation the family had absolutely no idea what happened, and everybody knows that suicides can certainly be unexpected. So lambasting the press and police, with absolutely zero information? Seems to me that the family had made it clear that this was not the outcome that they wanted, truth be damned. Hiring Greenspan to run an parallel investigation just goes to show that they were sparing no expense to ensure that they got the outcome they wanted.

So don't try and tell me that the outcome made no difference to anybody, one way or the other. Barry Sherman's legacy is vitally important to those he left behind. Would you rather be known as the child of one of Canada's wealthiest and most successful businessmen, or as the child of the billionaire who killed his wife and then himself?

The Sherman’s lived a very low profile life and were not well known public figures outside of Toronto. As for “legacy” I don’t have a clue what you’re referring to that would relate to a business owner of a Canadian generic drug company, alive or not.

I can totally understand the family’s reaction and if any of us were in their shoes we’d have no choice but be forced to take the same route as they.

From the very beginning, how news of the Sherman deaths hit the headlines was like a horrible and vicious out of control wildfire.

How it’s supposed to go - police release their standard obscure statement “two bodies were discovered....deaths are deemed suspicious, names will be released following notification of next of kin”. After that the names are released along with cause of death and if the manner of death hasn’t yet been determined a line or two will be added referring to an “ongoing investigation”.

But that’s not what happened. Instead the news of the Sherman deaths hit SM via twitter like a runaway train. Reportedly, their names were first disclosed by others (assumably through word of mouth) even before LE was able to inform the family. Then came the media reporting their deaths were “being investigated as a possible m/s” by an anonymous source prior to the autopsy and cause of death known.

Soon the “being investigated” and “possible” were dropped and their deaths morphed into m/s even though TPS declared they were still back at about square two, the deaths were deemed suspicious. It’s absolutely preposterous m/s could've ever been concluded on day one prior to the medical examination to determine how they died but some people will believe anything especially those who shrill on lurid scandal involving the wealthy.

TPS is never responsible for quelling unsubstantiated rumours. So who’s left to deal with the scandalous allegations but the family? Not only are they in disbelief and shock over their parents sudden deaths but faced with unsubstantiated speculation regarding their deceased parents who are not able to defend themselves.

Had the family not spoke out, had they not hired a PI team, it would be interpreted they concurred with the public m/s rumours. But as they did, now that’s being twisted and manipulated into proof of conspiracy?

Where your argument has major holes, if the family was so powerful, so able to influence an investigation, they needn’t have hired a PI team.

 

[casesensitive]

You have a lot more faith in the system than I do.

If the heirs didn't give a crap about the outcome, why were they so forceful in the early days, denouncing the police and media for even considering suicide? Lets not forget that at this point in the investigation the family had absolutely no idea what happened, and everybody knows that suicides can certainly be unexpected.

snipped by me

I think it was very reasonable how the family reacted to the immediate, irresponsible police statement (not looking for any suspects) and the police source leak (murder/suicide theory) which was reported by multi media the very next day after the bodies were discovered.

For starters, there hadn't been a chance to even begin a proper investigation, and they certainly shouldn't be expected to go along with a rumour that their father killed their mother and then committed suicide when they knew in their hearts that this was unbelievable, wether suicide can be unexpected or not.

If I put myself in their shoes, I would have reacted the exact same way. Their statement was justified and made necessary under the circumstances.

Family statement:
In a statement released Saturday by Apotex Inc., the company founded by Barry Sherman, the family urged the media to stand down from further reporting on the deaths until the completion of the investigation, which they hoped would be "thorough, intensive and objective."

"Our parents shared an enthusiasm for life and commitment to their family and community totally inconsistent with the rumors regrettably circulated in the media as to the circumstances surrounding their deaths," the statement says. "We are shocked and think it's irresponsible that police sources have reportedly advised the media of a theory which neither their family, their friends nor their colleagues believe to be true."

Family of billionaire Barry Sherman doubts murder-suicide reports

Edit: Just saw Misty's post--sorry to repeat your comments.

 

[MistyWaters]

snipped by me

I think it was very reasonable how the family reacted to the immediate, irresponsible police statement (not looking for any suspects) and the police source leak (murder/suicide theory) which was reported by multi media the very next day after the bodies were discovered.

For starters, there hadn't been a chance to even begin a proper investigation, and they certainly shouldn't be expected to go along with a rumour that their father killed their mother and then committed suicide when they knew in their hearts that this was unbelievable, wether suicide can be unexpected or not.

If I put myself in their shoes, I would have reacted the exact same way. Their statement was justified and made necessary under the circumstances.

Family statement:
In a statement released Saturday by Apotex Inc., the company founded by Barry Sherman, the family urged the media to stand down from further reporting on the deaths until the completion of the investigation, which they hoped would be "thorough, intensive and objective."

"Our parents shared an enthusiasm for life and commitment to their family and community totally inconsistent with the rumors regrettably circulated in the media as to the circumstances surrounding their deaths," the statement says. "We are shocked and think it's irresponsible that police sources have reportedly advised the media of a theory which neither their family, their friends nor their colleagues believe to be true."

Family of billionaire Barry Sherman doubts murder-suicide reports

Edit: Just saw Misty's post--sorry to repeat your comments.

No need to be sorry and thanks for quoting the family statement.

Its a sad world if a family is criticized for expecting their parents sudden deaths receive “thorough, intensive and objective” investigation, particularly when staging of a possible double suicide was involved.

 

[WINDSOR]

Until you've experienced the stigma attached to it, you will never know. Also, this case is not just a suicide, it has the murder component attached to it as well. You can believe whatever you like, but I guarantee you that as I said from the beginning, we will likely never hear another word about this case, not from LE anyway. And unfortunately, I'll never be able to prove my theory because this case is just going to die, or should I say its already dead.

I have been closer to suicide and its effects than you could possibly know. The stigma you speak about is usually feelings that the survivors may experience after the event. These feelings can be based on the survivors' guilt at the failure to recognise the warning signs that may have precluded the death(s) or some other issues. With suicide being so common for so many celebrities in society, (Robin Williams, Spalding Gray, Anthony Bourdain are just a few high profile examples) I fail to see any stigma for survivors. In my experience in most cases of suicide, people show great compassion and love for the survivors.

 

[MistyWaters]

I have been closer to suicide and its effects than you could possibly know. The stigma you speak about is usually feelings that the survivors may experience after the event. These feelings can be based on the survivors' guilt at the failure to recognise the warning signs that may have precluded the death(s) or some other issues. With suicide being so common for so many celebrities in society, (Robin Williams, Spalding Gray, Anthony Bourdain are just a few high profile examples) I fail to see any stigma for survivors. In my experience in most cases of suicide, people show great compassion and love for the survivors.

In Canada Medically Assisted Death is also legal (medically assisted suicide involving cases of incurable and fatal disease).

I agree, there is absolutely no stigma toward survivors of those who choose to end their life by suicide nor should there be.

Proof of no stigma in this case was the Sherman memorial was attended by several thousands of people out of respect toward the family, even though the manner of death hadn't yet been determined and the possibility of m/s was still being actively flouted.

 

[Arnie M]

For the most part I agree with andreww

If it was murder-murder it means there is a "bad guy" out there somewhere who did it.

If it is murder-suicide it means that Barry is the bad guy

Perfectly understandable that his children would object , not to mention all Barry's friends and associates and high political connections.

They much prefer the outsider-bad- guy theory.

 

[taylorss]

Of course the children would object, at least initially. Denial is a normal response. But IMO it’s generally about denying a truth to oneself, not waging a campaign to mislead others.

The children are private individuals who just lost their parents under terrible circumstances. Hard to imagine they’d waste their time and resources on a misinformation campaign.

 

[MistyWaters]

For the most part I agree with andreww

If it was murder-murder it means there is a "bad guy" out there somewhere who did it.

If it is murder-suicide it means that Barry is the bad guy

Perfectly understandable that his children would object , not to mention all Barry's friends and associates and high political connections.

They much prefer the outsider-bad- guy theory.

The children objected to the media running with anonymous rumours prior to their parent’s deaths being officially investigated. Who wouldn’t?

The deaths were never ruled a murder-suicide.

 

[Kaley Smith]

I've never believed for a second that this is a murder-suicide. I think this was a revenge-type murder. Not sure if this link has been shared here:
2 Elements of Billionaires' Deaths Their Kids Found Odd

 

[JDG]

^^^^ paywall.

Is this possibly the article that Kerry Winter has been waiting for??

 

[dotr]

^^^^ paywall.

Is this possibly the article that Kerry Winter has been waiting for??

If it is the one posted by Kaley Smith, do not think so as it is supportive of the m/m
scenario. imo.

 

[JDG]

If it is the one posted by Kaley Smith, do not think so as it is supportive of the m/m
scenario. imo.

I know and agree. Kerry Winter did say it would be the WSJ, its possible the reporters spoke to many family members and took their own pov. from information gleaned, perhaps?

Can't see the WSJ then running an article siding with KWs pov after this article.

 

[MistyWaters]

I know and agree. Kerry Winter did say it would be the WSJ, its possible the reporters spoke to many family members and took their own pov. from information gleaned, perhaps?

Can't see the WSJ then running an article siding with KWs pov after this article.

The WSJ article was published June 29th.

There’s is just no way any MSM is going to become involved in publishing a story to contradict a homicide investigation sourced from KW considering it’s become public knowledge that he failed a mental health assessment.

“He (KW) agreed to undergo a mental health assessment and is now being represented by a litigation guardian.”
MANDEL: Barry Sherman’s cousins fighting for share of Apotex fortune

The appointment of a litigation guardian indicates he’s been deemed mentally incompetent and obviously his illness or disability impacts more than just the civil suit.
The Role of the Litigation Guardian | Thomson Rogers - Toronto Personal Injury Lawyers

I hope he’s able to receive the necessary treatment that will enable him to overcome his recent mental health challenges.
JMO

 

[JDG]

^^^
Think I commented on that in my last sentence.

I also believe KW was interviewed for the article before any assessment was requested.

 

[MistyWaters]

^^^
Think I commented on that in my last sentence.

I also believe KW was interviewed for the article before any assessment was requested.

I doubt it matters when he was interviewed because it’s still regarding the Sherman murders. The SIL’s allegations of KWs having incurred a mental breakdown centered on proof in statements he made during his earlier January/Feb media blitz. That is what prompted the mental health assessment, regardless of when it was requested or conducted.

 

[MistyWaters]

Adding this link to comments in my post above, regarding the initial affidavit filed with the Court of Appeal requesting KW undergo a mental health assessment -

“In a newly-unsealed court document obtained by the Sun, a relative contends the controversial cousin who’s made outlandish allegations surrounding the murder of Barry and Honey Sherman suffered “some sort of nervous breakdown” after the billionaire couple was discovered dead in their home last December.

Kerry Winter’s “perplexing media campaign” has also cast him as a murder suspect, worries his sister-in-law in the filed affidavit.

“Although I have no formal training regarding mental or emotional disorders, I have known Kerry for approximately 25 years and based on his recent conduct, it is my opinion that he has suffered some form of nervous breakdown,” says Julia Winter, widow of Kerry’s brother Dana....

....”I did not approve of Kerry’s recent statements to the press. I attribute it to his illness,” his Vancouver sister-in-law wrote in her affidavit....”
MANDEL: Barry Sherman’s cousin Kerry Winter suffered nervous breakdown, sister-in-law tells court

 

[WINDSOR]

My biggest concern about this case is that as public interest fades, efforts by law enforcement will diminish and this case will just be forgotten.

Those who support the M/S theory have some validity in believing that since no information is coming out regarding the M/M scenario, there was no M/M and therefore it it was a M/S.

However I believe after all these months the TPS, if they had investigated thoroughly and realised in fact, it was a M/S they would have quietly announced that fact and closed the case. They still may do that in the coming weeks or months.

However I believe we sleuthers must keep the case alive, so to speak, until some official resolution is declared.

I believe if asked today, the TPS would say they are still investigating.