Canada - Connor, 6, & Noah Barthe, 4, killed by python, Campbellton, NB, 5 Aug 2013

[Solitaryone]

...returning to Connor and Noah:

"A vigil will be held tonight to honour the two boys who were found dead after a large snake escaped from its enclosure above an exotic pet store in Campbellton, N.B.

--

Autopsies were performed on Tuesday to determine the exact cause of the two boys' deaths. RCMP Sgt. Alain Tremblay said Tuesday that it wasn't clear when results would be available, but he expected they would shed some light on what happened to the boys."

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/story/2013/08/07/new-brunswick-snake-boys-vigil.html

And AHA! Timeline of alleged snake capture established:

Savoie told investigators he managed to trap the snake -- which police said weighed approximately 100 pounds -- in a cage before alerting authorities.

http://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/snake-...where-they-slept-rcmp-1.1399386#ixzz2bHgGd1ZZ

Now what does that tell me... Savoie saw the dead boys, who are meant to be like family to him.

He saw those small, dead bodies -- and does he call the police? Paramedics? Does he run and grab his son and take him out of the house where his little dead friends lay, and then call the children's mother?

No. He spends however long it takes to catch the 14ft snake which is apparently down a hole in his living room and cages it. All the while, Noah and Connor are lying there in the room...

THEN he calls authorities.

Criminal intent, or dumb as a sack of hammers - or both. I can't make up my mind at this point.

And Savoie was not supposed to even have this snake in the first place.

http://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/snake-...where-they-slept-rcmp-1.1399386#ixzz2bHgGd1ZZ

" Tremblay would not comment on whether the owner of the store, Jean-Claude Savoie, had the right to hold the snake -- which was identified as an African rock python -- citing the ongoing investigation.

"The investigator is still looking into whether he had all the rights to keep such (an) animal," Tremblay said. "There are a lot of things to look at. We're just at the first step of this investigation."

He said that police will soon be speaking with Savoie.

But the New Brunswick government said in a statement that Savoie did not have the required permit to house the python.

The province requires a special permit for the African rock python, and the New Brunswick Department of Natural Resources said the snake is generally only permitted in accredited zoos.

Steve Benteau, a spokesperson for the department, said the province wasn't aware the snake was being kept at the apartment."

 

[know_what_i'm_sayin']

When the owner said: "they never even opened their eyes..." I believe he meant when he was checking them, to which he assumed they were sleeping? I've seen some news footage of this and he seems to be a very 'french Canadian' man, so this could easily just be a language barrier problem. I don't believe he's talking about the actual moment the snake (allegedly) suffocated the boys.

At 6:30am, the time he states he checked on the boys, the sun would be rising and the room would be gaining light. I believe he would be able to make out the boys in the half-dark state and could possibly see they didn't have their eyes open (supports his theory that he assumed they were sleeping). But he could have very well noticed a hole in the ceiling and then felt the need to flick on the lights.... which he then noticed this "horrific scene". Someone wondered how he knew they were dead, we don't know what time this happened, they could have been there like that for hours for all we know, so they could have been blue in color. (horrific indeed)

I'm not defending him, the story is a strange one, but I supposed it's all possible that it really did just fall on the boys and maybe killed them. But I'm also wondering if the roof caving in and a 100lb snake landing on them could have killed them too, the impact alone, these are small boys after all. Maybe the snake didn't even touch them and just coiled up after the fall. We haven't heard what state the boys bodies were in, so we have no idea if they were strangled or not do we? MOO

 

[Solitaryone]

I heard today that the animal was being kept in the apartment not in the pet store.

Yup. And not only in the apartment, but it was kept right near where the boys were sleeping. And it had escaped its enclosure before!

 

[LietKynes]

I heard today that the animal was being kept in the apartment not in the pet store.

RSBM


Yes, I read that yesterday as well. What I'm NOT understanding is that the man who found the deceased youngsters said that there was a hole in the ceiling where the snake fell through after crawling through the ventilation ducts.

So, is there a hole , or not ? And why did he think it crawled from the store when it was being kept in the apartment ?

When I was growing up, a man who kept some kind of python had one escape...luckily no one was hurt. It was refusing to eat or something ; and then it became hungry and coiled itself against the mesh top of it's cage and broke the lock. Apparently snakes can be stronger than we think.
He found it in the neighbor's back yard. :scared: :blushing:

It doesn't make sense. Was this just negligence ?

RIP, Noah and Connor !!!!

 

[wfgodot]

Autopsy results are expected today for two boys who were found dead after a large snake escaped from its enclosure above an exotic pet store in Campbellton, N.B.
---
RCMP Sgt. Alain Tremblay said Tuesday he expects the results will shed some light on what happened to the boys.
---
Police remained at Reptile Ocean on Wednesday and officers left carrying two paper bags from inside the cordoned off shop, reports CBC's Michael Dick.
---

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/story/2013/08/07/new-brunswick-snake-boys-vigil.html

 

[Solitaryone]

Interview with Bry Loyst,curator of the Indian River Reptile Zoo:


UJR Update:Tragedy in Canada with Bry Loyst:

[video=youtube;VWMXWkPoADE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VWMXWkPoADE[/video]

In this interview, Bry Loyst says he asked the RMCP what condition the boys were in when found, and he claims that he was told the boys did have bite marks, but he didn't ask where. ( I have very low volume so if someone who could hear this better could transcribe, that would be great).

Much more at link. Fast forward about a minute in to skip intro.

 

[matou]

Haven't listened to the whole thing but apparently the kids had bite marks hence the autopsy report coming back so quickly (today?). It seems the snake did kill the kids, IMO. The snake owner had several legal and illegal animals in his place, including at least one sea turtle. From the video link above.

 

[Steely Dan]

You would die if you saw what I see regularly on the trails I run on! TONS of rattlers out there in the canyon. On one trail off the beach (where I took my bike one day, there were dozens of them rattling away in the middle of a hot day on either side of me as i rode up the hill. I was petrified.

Another time on another trail, there were a few rattling away on the sides of the single-track trail as we hiked. I felt totally sick and it took FOREVER to get out of there. It was another hot day.

One my regular trail, I see them about four or five times per year. But last year I had two horrible encounters. On one occasion, I nearly stepped right on a long snake (about 4.5 feet) stretched across the trail that my running partner and my dog had just ran over without knowing. I stopped in the nick of time (it was dusk - nautical dusk so pretty dark) and jumped back. It got pissed and coiled and started rattling. I was stuck on the hill for a long time, as it kept getting darker, waiting for it to slither away. Totally freaky! I never knew until then that rattlers come out at night.

The second time was about 10 months later. I decided to run up a single track trail to mark some time because my running partner was still behind me (I had taken a shortcut that day and so I was now ahead). This time it was also nautical dusk.

As I ran up the trail I suddenly heard violent thrashing in the brush near my head (the trail is cut into the hill, so the brush on one side was near my head level). I stopped dead and saw the ugliest, hugest, reddish rattler, that was just coiling, rattling and with it's head up and back. It was totally thick. Not sure about the length but this was the thickest one I have seen - a little bigger around than a small water bottle. Scared the crappola out of me. I ran back off that trail so quick. I think it felt me running up as it began to try to cross the trail, got startled and mad as hell.

Rattlers really scare me! But i admit I keep running at dusk. It's so much cooler and the only time I have time! But I keep a sharp eye out, let me tell you!

Here's a photo of the position that last one was in, kind of, except I feel like it;s rattler was behind it and it;s head higher!

Or like this one:

Freaky!!

Are rattlesnake trails really safer than California streets?

you are an insane woman ginita1, i respect snakes, but i would'nt walk an area where rattlers were heat seeking.
the snake in the death of the children, was not a wild snake, the situation is very extraordinary, but the snake fell, its the first time(or second) its had this freedom in a decade.
most snake breeders keep their snakes in tupper/plastic containers, the snakes never see the lite of day, true snakes are not dogs - but as any life form they get -a little crazy with the confinment. as the professionals say extraordinary. jmo

Fixed that for you! :thumb: Bolded to show fixed area.

Yup. And not only in the apartment, but it was kept right near where the boys were sleeping. And it had escaped its enclosure before!

Where did you hear that?

 

[matou]

Wow, the guy in the interview is really disturbed about this and he said that Savoie is returning to his house so the investigation is over in his opinion. He asked LE if they are sure this isn't a murder and they said they are sure. Oh boy, I hope the autopsy covers every part of their bodies because if the results are back today, there is no way they can get back DNA swabs checking for sexual assault. JMO

 

[matou]

The snake apparently busted a different part of the ceiling that the boys were sleeping in so it didn't fall on top of them (according to reptile expert being interviewed in video posted above).

 

[matou]

Crime scene investigation is done in the opinion of the expert interviewed since Savoie is being let back into his home/store.

 

[Solitaryone]

Are rattlesnake trails really safer than California streets?



Fixed that for you! :thumb: Bolded to show fixed area.



Where did you hear that?

Ausgirl had posted an article where Bry Loyst had said the snake had escaped into the ventilation system before. And I found this:

http://www.660news.com/2013/08/07/python-believed-to-have-killed-2-boys-had-escaped-before-report/

"The python that is believed to have killed two young brothers in New Brunswick had escaped before, according to a report.

Bry Loyst, the curator of the Indian River Reptile Zoo near Peterborough, Ont., who is familiar with the snake in question, told the Toronto Sun this wasn’t the first time this python had made its way into the ventilation system, calling it an accident waiting to happen."

 

[tezi]

I heard today that the animal was being kept in the apartment not in the pet store.

Yes, it's been cited in the links a page or two back...

 

[Ausgirl]

I truly hope they charge him with manslaughter or criminal negligence at least. Because he KNEW the snake could get out. And that it was aggressive. And STILL he put it in a room adjacent to those poor kids.

All he's done is blah to the press, lying and fudging to minimise his culpability. I am betting the whole story never gets heard, but from what I can see there's a LOT more to come out, if it makes it to court. Enough sticky questions to prove Savoie simply couldn't be bothered making --sure-- that croc enclosure was python-proof. Though there's a few surrounding his actions the day the boys died I'd like to see answered, as well.

 

[matou]

Boys in snake death died from asphyxiation, RCMP say

Preliminary results from an autopsy performed on two New Brunswick boys who died after an African rock python escaped its enclosure show they died from asphyxiation, RCMP say.

The pathologist completed the autopsies on Noah and Connor Barthe on Tuesday.

"While we now have some preliminary information, investigators still have to wait for other test results to come back and for the final report," Sgt. Alain Tremblay said in a statement.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/story/2013/08/07/new-brunswick-snake-boys-vigil.html

 

[matou]

Apparently Savoie had guests over at his house until midnight or later, IIRC. He was up at 6:30 am checking on the boys, how responsible of him. JMO

 

[Solitaryone]

I truly hope they charge him with manslaughter or criminal negligence at least. Because he KNEW the snake could get out. And that it was aggressive. And STILL he put it in a room adjacent to those poor kids.

All he's done is blah to the press, lying and fudging to minimise his culpability. I am betting the whole story never gets heard, but from what I can see there's a LOT more to come out, if it makes it to court. Enough sticky questions to prove Savoie simply couldn't be bothered making --sure-- that croc enclosure was python-proof. Though there's a few surrounding his actions the day the boys died I'd like to see answered, as well.

Ausgirl, I so agree with everything you've said! I hope he is charged too, and I still have questions about what and how this happened. What happened to these precious boys is just so damn hideous, there's hardly any words. ...

And Savoie has not even publicaly apologized or in any way taken responsibility for this needless tragedy. If Savoie had been responsible to begin with, he never would have had that snake as well as any other reptiles he should NOT have had to begin with.

 

[tezi]

ausgirl, i so agree with everything you've said! I hope he is charged too, and i still have questions about what and how this happened. What happened to these precious boys is just so damn hideous, there's hardly any words. ...

And savoie has not even publicaly apologized or in any way taken responsibility for this needless tragedy. if savoie had been responsible to begin with, he never would have had that snake as well as any other reptiles he should not have had to begin with.

rbbm: Exactly!

 

[Sonya610]

Wow, the guy in the interview is really disturbed about this...

In large part because this event scares the heck out of many reptile keepers. They are afraid their own animals may be outlawed or seized.

 

[nao]

http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2002/11/24/1037697985131.html

A six-metre African rock python has eaten a boy near Durban - the first recorded "man-eating" incident for the species

November 25 2002