Canada - Connor, 6, & Noah Barthe, 4, killed by python, Campbellton, NB, 5 Aug 2013

[Hamsterdance]

I started researching how these pythons kill their prey, and what I gathered so far confirmed what I already knew. They contrict around the body, squeezing tighter as their prey takes a breath so they can't get more air. That would leave crush marks on the body, possibly even broken ribs IMO. It wouldn't make sense for the snake to coil around not one, but 2 necks at the same time (reports only mention strangulation).

I'm ticked that I lost alot of my open links because my computer keeps shutting down on me and wouldn't let me reopen the tabs. Some of the images showed these African pythons coiled around goats and other large prey- coiled around the body. I also think that it would take a bit of time, and that death wouldn't be instantaneous. If the noise of a snake 'crashing' through the ceiling wasn't enough to wake anyone up, you'd think that at least one of the boys would've been able to squeek out a bit of a scream to alert at least the other boy in the apartment. If death really was strangulation or suffocation (for 2 at once, suffocation with pillow or something would be quieter), that is something a human could do before another child woke up from another room.

Also, it is *extremely* rare for them to kill humans, I recall that the last reported death was a 3 year old child in 1999...another link I lost and will try to find so I can read further.

Still waiting for that autopsy. I hope they are also checking for any snake DNA to prove it was on them (even though that alone wouldn't prove it killed them), and also any signs of sexual assault or anything in their system that may have 'helped' them stay asleep (just in case). I also hope they check this guys computer for anything out of the ordinary. May as well not leave any stone unturned, and do a full proper investigation.

Still have my suspicions and wonder if the snake was killed prematurely.

 

[Hamsterdance]

Ok, I found this link:

It seems reporters tend to use the word strangle in relation to these sitations:
http://www.tampabay.com/news/public...thon-that-strangled-2-year-old-sumter/1015026

But at least in this article it further explains that it wrapped around the child. Also, the reaction of the parents who discovered the situation is a far more realistically emotional reaction.




Warning - gross alert...O/T Side note- further in the link it has a link to an image of a python that exploded after swallowing a crocodile!!

 

[Sonya610]

How does a snake could climb into air shaft, which is probably near the ceiling. I have see snakes on trees, but even those trees are nowhere like climbing a wall to the ceiling. Also, if the snake fell down, it would make a noise and cause a commotion. :waitasec:

Snakes, even the smaller terrestrial ones that aren't known for climbing are actually very good at it.

If the animal was in a large cage with shelves and such it would be quite possible.

 

[wfgodot]

First post on this blog discusses other big snake-related deaths:

http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/forums/snakes/205532-deaths-constrictors.html

 

[Hamsterdance]

Regarding the 1999 incident. Here is an article related to the original article I was viewing:
http://www.igorilla.com/gorilla/animal/1999/python_illinois.html

It also mentions that the boys body "was found Sunday in the family's home with compression marks around his chest and bite marks on his neck and ears"

In both situations (including my post above), compression marks on the body and bite marks near the head are mentioned.

 

[matou]

So it's clear:

African rock python involved in killing of young New Brunswick brothers was being kept in apartment, not the pet store below

During a Tuesday afternoon press conference in Campbellton, N.B., RCMP said they could not give a cause of death for the brothers before autopsies were completed.

The RCMP says it is too early to say if charges will be laid, but they are treating the apartment as a “crime scene.”

The snake apparently slithered through a small hole in the ceiling of its glass cage that connected to the ventilation shaft, police said. When it crawled over the living room where the boys were sleeping in, the ventilation shaft collapsed.

Oh, and that wasn't noisy. Shafts are made of metal, no?

http://news.nationalpost.com/2013/0...runswick-brothers-may-be-illegal-in-province/

 

[matou]

R.e. Gitana's queery about the boys sleeping and not opening their eyes:

Still in shock, he said he was baffled how the snake could have made its way through such a narrow pipe and said he discovered the children dead on Monday morning when he woke up to check on them.

“They were sleeping; they didn’t even open their eyes or nothing,” he said.

How does he know?

http://news.nationalpost.com/2013/0...runswick-brothers-may-be-illegal-in-province/

 

[HMSHood]

Snakes, even the smaller terrestrial ones that aren't known for climbing are actually very good at it.

If the animal was in a large cage with shelves and such it would be quite possible.

I figure the smaller ones would. The bigger ones could do it, but would be more difficult.

 

[gitana1]

Regarding the 1999 incident. Here is an article related to the original article I was viewing:
http://www.igorilla.com/gorilla/animal/1999/python_illinois.html

It also mentions that the boys body "was found Sunday in the family's home with compression marks around his chest and bite marks on his neck and ears"

In both situations (including my post above), compression marks on the body and bite marks near the head are mentioned.

Well, we don't know if there were compression marks or bite marks in the boys or not. Once that's determined I think we will have our answer. I presume the police know this by now.

 

[wfgodot]

Canadian police confirm at a press conference that the apartment is being treated as a "crime scene" by investigators

Most info matches that in matou's nationalpost.com article above: http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/python-death-killer-snake-kept-2132313

Also: Why Would a Python Strangle Two Kids? (news.discovery.com)

 

[Sonya610]

It also mentions that the boys body "was found Sunday in the family's home with compression marks around his chest and bite marks on his neck and ears"

In both situations (including my post above), compression marks on the body and bite marks near the head are mentioned.

Bite marks around the head means the snake probably tried to swallow the kid. Often times human shoulders prevent that from happening, they can't get their mouth around the shoulders because they aren't tapered like most other prey animals.

 

[Tink]

Most info matches that in matou's nationalpost.com article above: http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/python-death-killer-snake-kept-2132313

Also: Why Would a Python Strangle Two Kids? (news.discovery.com)

I think the expert from Montreal quoted in the second article says what I think - the story is "improbable."

I have been reading past cases and there have been children constricted by pythons - but never two at a time.

I also think the comment by the snake's owner that the two boys "never even opened their eyes" is very odd. When didn't they open their eyes? How did he know?

Tink

 

[matou]

RCMP Major Crime Unit working with Reptile expert from Moncton NB in the case. CBCNEWS

 

[morrow68]

I would think that a snake crashing through a ceiling would awaken most people. I wouldn't know, but it seems like it would be very loud. Such a strange and tragic story, though

 

[matou]

Maritime Reptile Zoo Curator Mike MacDonald said the snake was in excellent condition when he handled it six weeks ago, but it was known for being aggressive.

He said they were cautious when entering its enclosure.

"It is very protective. It’s very defensive. It’s not one that's regularly around people," he said. "It was extremely nervous with people."

"It's extremely rare. It's rare that they would kill one person let alone two people at one time."

On Tuesday, RCMP Sgt. Alain Tremblay said that the snake was actually held in a glass enclosure on the second floor. It is believed it escaped through the top of its cage into the ventilation system above. The snake eventually came through the ceiling and down into the living room, where the brothers were sleeping.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-...06/ns-snake-kids-attack-defensive-expert.html

 

[Solitaryone]

Most info matches that in matou's nationalpost.com article above: http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/python-death-killer-snake-kept-2132313

Also: Why Would a Python Strangle Two Kids? (news.discovery.com)

From this link:

http://news.discovery.com/animals/pets/why-would-python-strangle-kids-130806.htm

"Owner Jean-Claude Savoie, who kept the nearly 15-foot-long snake as a personal pet, said that the snake escaped through a ventilation system, fell into the living room from the ceiling, and then apparently strangled the two boys to death. The boys were the children of a friend, and were said to be sleeping over at Savoie's apartment near the shop."

"David Rodrigue, director of Montreal's Ecomuseum Zoo, said that pythons usually only go into strangulation mode when they are stimulated by hunger and prey odor. He said that the situation with the boys was highly improbable."

So, this snake was Jean-Claude Savoie's personal pet. I think we're going to hear much more very soon. I'm not buying Savoie's story!

 

[Solitaryone]

Pythons can be quite clever.

Stuff of nightmares: The giant snake that can open doors. (Daily Mail, with video)

Caveat: video of Julius the albino Burmese python opening a door may not be for everyone.

Had to quote this! This is just so scary! Why would anyone have these reptiles as pets? These reptiles are not meant to be pets! This video just gives me the creeps big time!

 

[Dewey2Me1MoThyme]

I'm sure it's possible, but I find it hard to believe the snake would kill both boys at or about the same time. A snake doesn't store food away for winter like a squirrel stashes nuts. just saying ................

 

[matou]

RCMP Sgt. Alain Tremblay confirmed Tuesday that an African rock python was euthanized by a veterinarian. An autopsy on the snake will confirm what happened, police said.

“[When] we have all the elements before us to provide the prosecutor with all evidence we gather is going to take time,” Tremblay said at a Tuesday afternoon press conference in Campbellton, N.B. “We are not there yet.”

He said the boys were found on a mattress on the floor of the apartment’s living room and did not give details on the condition they were found in.

http://news.nationalpost.com/2013/0...runswick-brothers-may-be-illegal-in-province/

 

[matou]

He said Jean-Claude Savoie took all the children shopping, where they loaded up their carts with treats and both families went to Savoie’s farm.

“There they played with llamas, and goats and horses, they played with dogs and cats in the hay loft,” Rose said. “They went for a ride with Jean-Claude on his tractor and he even let them steer. They had a super day.”

Connor was to turn seven later this month and was going to enter Grade 2 in the fall. Noah, 4 and a half, was going to start kindergarten.

Rose said after a long day at the farm, the two families went to Savoie’s apartment, where they stayed until about 12 a.m.. The boys stayed for a sleepover.

Maybe the snake smelled the goats and llamas on the boys?

http://news.nationalpost.com/2013/0...runswick-brothers-may-be-illegal-in-province/