CANADA - Lucas Fowler, Australian & Chynna Deese, American, murdered, Alaska Hwy, BC, Jul 2019 #2

[Inthedetails]

About the burned out vehicle pattern... so they torched the last car (RAV4 I think) close to Gilliam which is bizarre as it's telling LE where they are. Gilliam is a dead end, they wouldn't purposefully be luring LE into a trap would they? I doubt they are that smart to know that location was a dead end, so why bother to torch the car when they could let it sit undetected? Evidence maybe I guess.

It's possible they burned the car in that location because they found out they were named as suspects while they were near that location? So they ditched the car and stole another? Or are hiding nearby.

jmo

 

[Ran]

The picture I get is similar to the lives of the
Columbine killers. Young people who have a
roof over their heads but otherwise ignored or
neglected within their families. Emotional neglect and feelings of emptiness.
Young boys pretty much raising themselves.
I have a feeling this was planned as one last
exciting fantasy game. Little planning on details and just taking it a few hours at a time.
Burning their truck/camper tells me they have
no plans of surviving to need it.
They'll play cat and mouse w/ LE until the end.
This is their ultimate video game played out in real life.

I am going to respectfully disagree, or at least voice the opinion that it is too early to tell. These two are not mass killers or serial killers but crime spree killers who killed during the commission of robberies. They are in my view simply violent criminals killing as part of their robberies.

The vast majority of mass killers have long diagnosed serious to severe mental illness. Even the largest school shooting anywhere, and a school shooting since it targeted students, was in Europe, by Breivik and he was unanimously diagnosed by the first four psychiatrists as having several major mental illnesses, and as it turns out he had them from a very young age. Same with Columbine, the medical records show history of mental illness treatment of the 18 year old, and although the second one, since he was 17 when he died, has his medical records sealed by his parents, but the consensus is those records almost certainly include treatment for serious mental illness.

These two -- from what we know so far -- had perhaps a dissolute and not ideal youth, but had the kind of youth millions if not tens or hundred of millions of people have had and who managed not to murder anyone for gas money, or a car.

Smoking some grass, playing a lot of video games, poor high school grades, absentee parents are risk factors but when we say risk factors, we mean raising risk of committing violent crime from 0.5% to maybe 1%. 99% of people who have childhoods like that live their whole lives without harming anyone.

 

[enelram]

Good morning. Well, are they still on the run in another vehicle, or on foot, or holed up in someone's house ?..........The coffee is good and I need a burrito delivery.....moo

good morning cody22,
no updates overnight. IMO they were holed up
overnight for a bit of sleep before their final
shoot out today.

 

[Scoobysnack]

Good morning. Well, are they still on the run in another vehicle, or on foot, or holed up in someone's house ?..........The coffee is good and I need a burrito delivery.....moo

10:05 pm here..... just finished work, wine and an omelette for this tired gal!

 

[Inthedetails]

Good morning. Well, are they still on the run in another vehicle, or on foot, or holed up in someone's house ?..........The coffee is good and I need a burrito delivery.....moo

Great - order me something too. I've got my own coffee.

I have a feeling they will be captured today. Fingers crossed.

jmo

 

[Inthedetails]

I'd like to know that trauma counselling has been provided to the families of the alleged perpetrators... perhaps it has. I guess that's not the kind of information that would be a high priority for media to seek and report on right now. It would just be good to know that the father we've seen in an interview (when he thought his son was a missing person), isn't battling it out alone right now.

This is a very thoughtful post.

Crimes are so much more damaging than just the actual incident. The effects are wide and lasting.

Thank you for that reminder to be kind.

jmo

 

[JerseyGirl]

The brothers of a Charlotte woman (Chynna Deese) who was killed with her boyfriend in Canada are speaking out a day after police named two teenagers as prime suspects in the couple's murders.

CHARLOTTE WOMAN KILLED IN CANADA: Missing men now suspects in murders of Charlotte woman, boyfriend in Canada

 

[Mimi in London]

Back to BS’ favourite Lanius film/game.

Lanius

From this website, the character Lanius is immune to fire. And in the ‘Notable quotes’ section, this (bbm):

‘We shall see how brave you are when nailed to the walls of Hoover Dam, your body facing West so you may watch your world die’.

 

[Betty P]

If they do get caught and mental illness is determined...that can change the sentencing. For example Vince Li who beheaded a 22 year male on a bus in Canada. He was in a psychiatric hospital for a few years and is now out on the streets.

Also, there was a young guy in Calgary who stabbed and killed a few people at a party...again mental health issues...how much time is he doing? He killed five people and was found not criminally responsible.

For both of the above, their behaviour was deemed to be related to psychotic episodes. So are these two having psychotic episodes?

Not saying I agree with these sentences but this can be reality in Canada.

I remember reading about this when it happened. I hope and pray for the sake of the public that he never goes off his meds again.

 

[enelram]

I am going to respectfully disagree, or at least voice the opinion that it is too early to tell. These two are not mass killers or serial killers but crime spree killers who killed during the commission of robberies. They are in my view simply violent criminals killing as part of their robberies.

The vast majority of mass killers have long diagnosed serious to severe mental illness. Even the largest school shooting anywhere, and a school shooting since it targeted students, was in Europe, by Breivik and he was unanimously diagnosed by the first four psychiatrists as having several major mental illnesses, and as it turns out he had them from a very young age. Same with Columbine, the medical records show history of mental illness treatment of the 18 year old, and although the second one, since he was 17 when he died, has his medical records sealed by his parents, but the consensus is those records almost certainly include treatment for serious mental illness.

These two -- from what we know so far -- had perhaps a dissolute and not ideal youth, but had the kind of youth millions if not tens or hundred of millions of people have had and who managed not to murder anyone for gas money, or a car.

Smoking some grass, playing a lot of video games, poor high school grades, absentee parents are risk factors but when we say risk factors, we mean raising risk of committing violent crime from 0.5% to maybe 1%. 99% of people who have childhoods like that live their whole lives without harming anyone.

Many killers live under the radar and function
somewhat in society before they go off the deep end.
I wonder also how much the family's affluence
or economic level plays into them getting
treatment earlier in their lives.
Many young "lost souls" go on in their lives
coping with alcohol or numbing drugs and may not kill others but eventually cause their own
demise albeit slowly.
The dad of BS mentioning his son's introvertedness shows he knew there was
something not quite right w/ his son.
These two young men are just choosing a
public way of letting the world know of their
psychic pain and emptiness and IMO are
choosing a way to end it.

 

[Inthedetails]

Chynna Deese's mother appeals for information about murder of her daughter and Lucas Fowler
...
Sheila said she first met Lucas over the phone.

Chynna was staying at a hostel in Croatia and mentioned she had met a few Australian men.

"She called me one day [and said] the Aussie boys want to hear you speak," Sheila recalled.

When she replied with a classic North Carolina "hey y'all," she could hear Lucas erupting with laughter in the background.

Chynna and Lucas's relationship developed, and Sheila finally met the young man in person over the Christmas holidays.

"He just fit right in. He did traditions with us. He cooked with us," she said.

"He helped me paint my entire house," British added.

"We felt like he was part of the family pretty early on. He had both grandparents' approvals if that tells you anything. He went to Christmas on both sides of the family, and everyone just loved him," he said.

Sheila knew he was a keeper when he sent her daughter a box of her favourite cheesecake cookies for Valentine's Day.

Secretly, she began fretting that the couple might decide to move to Australia together. It seemed too far and foreign for her to visit.

"I'm not an experienced traveller as they were," she said.

"But today I would love to have that option."

....
Travel fuelled the couple's love
Travel was the couple's life passion, the lens through which they discovered themselves and their love for each other.

"If their life purpose was to travel the world, they were doing an amazing job by age 24," British said.

The two self-funded all their adventures, including 13 different countries for Chynna.

She studied abroad in Europe and worked her keep on a grape farm. Lucas served as a Canadian cattle hand just prior to his death.

Chynna was industrious and enthusiastic. Sheila was proud to recognise her daughter's signature spark in a CCTV video of the couple's last petrol stop.

In the video, Chynna got out of the van to clean the windows before falling into Lucas's arms in a moment of unmistakable joy.

"She's wiping the windows. That was my daughter. She doesn't just sit in the van, she's going to get out. She's not going to go in and get a soda or something. She's going to get out and clean the windows," Sheila said.

Tears are flowing. I have a daughter this age and who has traveled, studied, and worked in Australia - all self-funded as well - and my fear is she will stay there long-term. I will now be more welcoming to that idea and perhaps plan a life of travel to see her - as I'm sure Chynna's mom would give anything to do.

Tears are flowing. This young couple definitely captured my heart - it was so easy to smile when looking at them or reading about them. They loved life.

jmo

jmo

 

[Inthedetails]

So it seems BS was/is sort of a lost soul, dropped out of HS, tried working w/ his dad,
then living w/ his grandmother, working at
Walmart, still playing imaginary games, few friends.
What do we know of KM's life? Have his parents or family spoken yet?
I get the feeling these 2 are modern day latch-
key boys. Just surviving but no real home life
w/ attentive, loving family in their lives on a regular basis. So they fill their lives w/ video
games, fantasy games out in the woods. They
seem a little old for this. Possibly emotionallyimmature?
Maybe they feel they don't have much of a life to lose? Hopeless, boring lives.
moo

You've hit on a question that continually intrigues (and frustrates) me in cases like this (and school shootings, etc. which have the same vibe to me as this, even if logistics are different).

Compare the two perps to the young couple they killed. Two of them loved life, found ways to travel the world through making money to do so, had a contagious spark. It's not as if it were handed to them - they paid for their travels, worked, and drove a broken-down van and smiled while doing it. They found a great partner in each other while each were doing what they loved. No one did that for them - they did it.

Then there are the other two, who couldn't do something similar. Instead of loving life, they destroy it. Why go that direction when they had opportunity to also thrive and go for whatever positive thing that interested them? One had a job at Walmart - why not have the drive to stick out that job to earn money to leave the area, if that was their desire. Why didn't things work out for them? At what point did that break to the dark side happen? Age 18, 15, 11, when?

jmo

 

[Ran]

I'll just put a bit of a prediction I'll put out there... this is in follow up to the post I made about shared psychotic disorder (folie à deux), and posts others have made about the joined at the hip bond these two have. My guess is that will all change once they are caught (if that happens, as opposed to this ending in their own deaths). Once they are separated, their separate families are in communication with them, they have separate psychiatrists, and different lawyers... I'm guessing either one would gladly throw the other under the bus. That turn around in attitude won't happen immediately, but it won't take too long.

That's my opinion only... but it's based on every almost every high profile "partners in crime" case I've ever followed. I feel it may even be a more pronounced turn around if I do happen to be right about a shared psychosis factor, because when you come back down to earth after something like that... then *THUD*

Respectfully there are literally thousands of every day violent crimes including murders committed by pairs of young men. This is a pedestrian and common phenomena and doesn't require psychosis, or any other major mental illness. When I moved to Baltimore for grad school, a pair of young men knifed a guy to death opposite my apartment while stealing his bike. If you look at any major North American city police twitter feed you will see lots of basic predatory violent crimes committed by pairs. Think about it this way: is a pair of bachelor young adult lions who maraud into a pride of lions "crazy" or "insane" or mentally ill? No.

Human males at 18/19-years-old are at peak testosterone, meaning peak aggression, often peak physical strength, peak social autonomy (no longer legally controllable by parents or schools) and we know from the science do not have their consequence assessment and self control brain areas fully developed. That is why they make great killers in the military. This is part of an evolution driven set of characteristics of hominids going back millions of years.

All men experience this, most of us mediate or control it due to socialization, family, ethics or failing that fear of legal repercussions. Some small percentage act out. You just need a bit of reduced empathy, reduced impulse control.

This is almost always well below anything "psychotic" (a severe mental illness not being able to tell reality from delusions) and total breaks from perceptions of reality.

 

[Justpa$$]

Twitter

Photo of scene showing only one van door open

 

[Ran]

You've hit on a question that continually intrigues (and frustrates) me in cases like this (and school shootings, etc. which have the same vibe to me as this, even if logistics are different).

This has nothing like the vibe of school shootings. From what we know so far is it is fully in the model of of basic predatory crime of robbery with
violence that occurs thousand of times a week and can invovle robbery where violence is threatened, or where victim is beaten, stabbed, shot resulting in injury or death.

The vast majority of school shooters have been clinically insane or had severe mental illness

 

[Inthedetails]

This has nothing like the vibe of school shootings. From what we know so far is it is fully in the model of of basic predatory crime of robbery with
violence that occurs thousand of times a week and can invovle robbery where violence is threatened, or where victim is beaten, stabbed, shot resulting in injury or death.

The vast majority of school shooters have been clinically insane or had severe mental illness

In your opinion, this crime doesn't have the vibe of school shootings. I think it does, in my opinion.

We'll know more later, of course.

jmyopinion

 

[enelram]

You've hit on a question that continually intrigues (and frustrates) me in cases like this (and school shootings, etc. which have the same vibe to me as this, even if logistics are different).

Compare the two perps to the young couple they killed. Two of them loved life, found ways to travel the world through making money to do so, had a contagious spark. It's not as if it were handed to them - they paid for their travels, worked, and drove a broken-down van and smiled while doing it. They found a great partner in each other while each were doing what they loved. No one did that for them - they did it.

Then there are the other two, who couldn't do something similar. Instead of loving life, they destroy it. Why go that direction when they had opportunity to also thrive and go for whatever positive thing that interested them? One had a job at Walmart - why not have the drive to stick out that job to earn money to leave the area, if that was their desire. Why didn't things work out for them? At what point did that break to the dark side happen? Age 18, 15, 11, when?

jmo

Your thoughts and questions mirror what many of us also continue to wonder about.

Let me share a different but similar analogy.
My family and I have raised all kinds of animals our whole life. Something we've noticed is that animals orphaned at a young
age and are unable to be reared and taught by their natural parents grow up to be very different in many ways from their counterparts
reared in their natural family by bio parents.

I've had kittens raised by a Collie dog. Do you think this kitten is going to be a 'normal' kitten
when mature?
I've had baby horses raised by humans with a bottle and they invariably grow up to be strange, undisciplined, difficult to train horses.

IMO these young people who, in effect, raise themselves like the olden days term, latch-key
kids, grow up w/ little guidance from attentive
parents. that the role parents are supposed to play in their children's lives. Teach them so
much of how and why to live a decent, law abiding, civilized life with good values, good
planning for the future, making and maintaining good relationships, etc.
there's just so much that attentive parents teach children that ones who literally raise themselves as psychological orphans do not get.
To me that's the difference in young people who choose the wrong paths. The orphans.

 

[Ran]

Could be ritual or liking the "blow em up" style of too many movies/video games. These guys seem detached from reality, probably a big game to them. Loving the attention. It does seem quiet, where are they?

How do these guys seem detached from reality? Where is the evidence they want attention or have any narcissistic personality disorder or psychosis (total breaks from reality??

So far everything points to basic thuggery. This entire episodes so far looks just like thousands of crimes of violence for basic robbery, which often include killing victims that occurs thousands of times throughout the world.

You can bet that the past 30 days there have been scores of carjackings, some ending in murder in Baltimore, Chicago, Tijuana, Caracas, LA, Detroit etc .

so far what we have is an attempted car jacking and a successful carjacking -- it is sad they are common, but they are common, most commonly by pairs of young men, and in a certain proportion victims are harmed or killed.

 

[Deleted member 248860]

If you look at any major North American city police twitter feed you will see lots of basic predatory violent crimes committed by pairs.

You are extrapolating from the US to Canada. Gun violence of this kind is extremely rare in Canada, a country with a much lower murder rate than in the US to begin with.

That’s said, it is possible that this started as a robbery and that one or both of them decided to kill the “witnesses”. That is decidedly abnormal behaviour for two people from a place like Port Alberni, which is not exactly Chicago. It also doesn’t explain the older man who was killed, burned out vehicles, etc.

 

[Inthedetails]

How do these guys seem detached from reality? Where is the evidence they want attention or have any narcissistic personality disorder or psychosis (total breaks from reality??

So far everything points to basic thuggery. This entire episodes so far looks just like thousands of crimes of violence for basic robbery, which often include killing victims that occurs thousands of times throughout the world.

You can bet that the past 30 days there have been scores of carjackings, some ending in murder in Baltimore, Chicago, Tijuana, Caracas, LA, Detroit etc .

so far what we have is an attempted car jacking and a successful carjacking -- it is sad they are common, but they are common, most commonly by pairs of young men, and in a certain proportion victims are harmed or killed.

Most carjackings seem like they are for a purpose - because the carjacker needed a vehicle in that moment.

These two perps had a vehicle.

I don't think these crimes are everyday crimes. Just my opinion.