Canada - Lucas Fowler, Chynna Deese, and Leonard Dyck, all murdered, Alaska Hwy, BC, Jul 2019 #14

[NJSleuth91]

SBM

I've wondered about their conversations, too.

I'm envisioning a weird stew of random small talk, inside jokes, practical logistical discussions, panicky freak-outs, and creepy murdery stuff, as well as random silences since they both apparently were a bit quiet. (I'm an introvert and like that my fellow introverted friends don't talk constantly and we can sit in silence and not be awkward. Based on what I've heard of these two, I could see that being true, too.)

MOO

That's a really good picture of what I was imagining, too. So basically like two dorky teenagers on a road trip, but with the addition of murder.

I'm an introvert and my husband is even more of an introvert, but when we're together we talk constantly and almost never have any long silences. I know in one interview their friend said Bryer was really loud-spoken among his friends, but really quiet in general, so I could see that being true of them.

 

[Zella]

I'm reanalyzing the surveillance video from Meadow Lake of these two now that we know they're deceased & most likely by suicide, and I'm now seeing it somewhat different than I had before. I'm getting a forboding expression on Kam's face. Before I thought he looked bored or like he was trying to act casual. Now in the wake of these new relevations, I get a defeated, downcast and empty impression. I don't see it as much in Bryer, to me he always looked more.. upbeat? Or something like that, in the video.

SBM

I know it's hard to read much into a short clip with no other video footage to determine their baseline body language and expressions, but I always thought Kam looked grimly determined--when that footage was first posted, I didn't recognize his face at first because of how different it was from the smiley pictures I'd seen before--and Bryer seemed to be off in his own little world, with a healthy dose of nervous fidgeting. Bryer's facial expression actually looked less creepy to me in that footage than he did in his normal pictures.

 

[Gina20]

I thought the act of suicide was a crime in Canada too, just not one that often sees a person charged.

Assisted suicide did get approved a while ago and the numbers of people choosing that route are surprisingly high.

No, aiding a suicide is a crime. "Mary Kills People" is a TV series on that subject.

Mental illness is not one of the allowable reasons for a medically-assisted death, nor is dementia.

For non-Canadians, medical assistance in dying is strictly regulated. In the TV series mentioned, the protagonist is a medical doctor who aids people in dying outside of the rules.

 

[JuneBug67]

Speaking of guns, don't real hunters of elk and other beautiful animals use a crossbow? Without getting into any discussion about legalities of crossbows and other details, my only point is that all this hunting talk gives the impression that everyone in Canada is packing and the only people who don't know this are the rest of the world. That is not true, and real hunters use a crossbow.

LOL. No, not everybody is packing. . BUT. We are 7th in the world of 230 countries assessed for rates of civilian gun ownership. 7th. In the entire world. 2017 estimates suggest that there are almost 13,000,000 firearms in the country. That is not 1000 weirdo hunters who are bucking the crossbow trend who each have 13,000 guns a piece.

Estimated number of civilian guns per capita by country - Wikipedia

I’m sure you’re reflecting the realities of your experience, but it’s just not accurate for the country taken as a whole. The reason a whole lot of us can feel like guns just aren’t a thing here is that outside of hunting, rural life and hobbyists they’re just not part of the mass culture. Unless we’re involved in one of the above pursuits or circumstances, we’re just not thinking about guns. If I want to double flip off that guy in the Walmart parking lot over the parking spot he stole, I’m not worried that he’s going to pull a .45 out of his console. Guns here are just tools, like toasters. There’s no lobby and there’s no meaningful bleeding into concepts like rights and freedoms or fundamental definitions of independence and self-sufficiency. There are however, collectively, a lot of guns around.

 

[Zella]

That's a really good picture of what I was imagining, too. So basically like two dorky teenagers on a road trip, but with the addition of murder.

I'm an introvert and my husband is even more of an introvert, but when we're together we talk constantly and almost never have any long silences. I know in one interview their friend said Bryer was really loud-spoken among his friends, but really quiet in general, so I could see that being true of them.

I can be a real chatter box myself but after awhile I get exhausted from interacting with anybody, regardless of how much I like them, and need some decompression time.

I actually know shy extroverts, too, which seems weird on the surface, but isn't since it's more a measurement of whether someone is energized or drained by interaction.

I could see Kam and Bryer being very talkative with each other but then kind of lapsing into some random silences, so they could just both recharge.

 

[otto]

I’m just curious if there is a protocol for the air and ground search. Like if searchers used a loudspeaker to attempt communication. The goal in a standoff or when someone is barricaded is to bring them out alive so how is that done? I get this was a much larger area and all that but it was contained somewhat. Just curious, not trying to stir it up.

RCMP used 4500 man hours to search 11,000 square kilometres and did not find them. It would be pointless to shout through a bullhorn through that aerial search.

 

[otto]

Other members may not realize that hundguns fall under restricted firearms and require more than a simple PAL to aquire. Most people are also not aware that when restricted firearms are sold into Canada, a single round is fired (as proven by the target pack with the firearm) and that round is on record so ballistics can be traced to the gun fairly quickly.

Restricted firearms regulations are stringent and can't be given, sold or traded without the next person also having a restricted firearms permit. In the case of restricted firearms, one still needs a PAL to get their restricted permit and to purchase ammo.

Some Canadians are unsure about licence .... license.

 

[modernpenny]

Its really to bad we have so little info on Kam, but his family is definitely staying quiet.

It's too bad because with AS and his whole victim mentality "every one out to get him" its not totally crazy to think that he would have complained to Bryer on the unfairness of his life, his "hex" (Bryers Mom) and that Bryer also took a mental page out of that book. Kids are little sponges soaking up their environment, teenagers are easily influenced.

I cannot stand when divorced parents bad mouth their ex SO to their children. Its poor, and really screws kids up. Let kids come to their own natural decisions as they grow. It's also possible his mom bad mouthed his father.

It's easy to assess Bryer definitely would have gotten a dose of that every time he saw AS and possibly plays into the rift between him and his mother (living with his Grandma).

I do not think it's far fetched to think the guns could have been acquired by stealing from Kams family gun collection (if there is one). My Dad has guns and he definitely does not check them frequently. They are locked up in a huge metal gun safe, which my brother has access to (he also owns guns and has his PAL) but if my brother was to steal any and go MIA, my Dad likely would not notice unless he had reason to suspect they were gone. A lot of people have guns that are seldom used (family heirlooms from Grandpa or for that random once every few years hunting trip).

Something I noticed in school, was when there was a kid who was odd/aggressive/a little dark most of the teachers didnt have a lot of compassion. Often they would treat these kids with disdain because they too were weirded out by them. If the adults around you are reacting to you just like every one else, are you really getting the support or help you need? In my elementary school time I can recall one teacher who gave a damn, and the rest often just punished or isolated the troubled kid further.

So theres many likely "straws that broke the camel's back" in their upbringing, from peer exclusion, dysfunctional homes, no one stepping in at critical times.

But Chynnas sister really hit the nail on the head. You can choose to let dysfunction and trauma rule your life, or acknowledge it and break the cycle. We can blame their upbringings, but even in the case of Bryers parents, they likely did the best they did with what they had, and for AS even if he refused to move on from his own trauma and hardship, it did not mean Bryer had to follow suit.

There is always a choice!

MOO

 

[Kiantra]

I threw out the idea a couple of days ago, more of a question, was Kam gay? Just curious.

Doesn’t matter even if he was. To me it’s irrelevant.

 

[sandbar]

LOL. No, not everybody is packing. . BUT. We are 7th in the world of 230 countries assessed for rates of civilian gun ownership. 7th. In the entire world. 2017 estimates suggest that there are almost 13,000,000 firearms in the country. That is not 1000 weirdo hunters who are bucking the crossbow trend who each have 13,000 guns a piece.

Estimated number of civilian guns per capita by country - Wikipedia

I’m sure you’re reflecting the realities of your experience, but it’s just not accurate for the country taken as a whole. The reason a whole lot of us can feel like guns just aren’t a thing here is that outside of hunting, rural life and hobbyists they’re just not part of the mass culture. Unless we’re involved in one of the above pursuits or circumstances, we’re just not thinking about guns. If I want to double flip off that guy in the Walmart parking lot over the parking spot he stole, I’m not worried that he’s going to pull a .45 out of his console. Guns here are just tools, like toasters. There’s no lobby and there’s no meaningful bleeding into concepts like rights and freedoms or fundamental definitions of independence and self-sufficiency. There are however, collectively, a lot of guns around.

Awesome post.

 

[Kiantra]

I think suicide was in the plan right from the beginning.

Not sure I agree. Yes f so, why wait? Why not do it sooner?

 

[Zella]

At the beginning, they were alive and the speculation ranged from coded ADHD to gay to Nazis to incels to I don't know. At that point, it was fair to stop the wild speculation.

Now that they are dead, and by the sounds of it, one was a bit taken with the other, I think it should be fair game to question whether Kam was gay and Bryer exploited that.

Did RCMP say anything about their clothing on the shore of the Nelson River?

I think until the mods officially declare the sexual orientation/preferences of the suspects as an allowed topic, it is better to steer clear to avoid having the thread shut down again.

I still have never heard exactly what was found on the shore. I hope that information is released eventually. It seems like whatever it was made LE suspect Kam and Bryer weren't a threat anymore, which always struck me as an interesting conclusion.

 

[LoisLane]

If LE know someone is holed up in a small area, they use megaphones to ask them to surrender.

In wide area searches, there is no such protocol. Obviously they won't go around strafing the forest or dropping tear gas.

I just wonder if there was a time frame where searchers may have had the opportunity to communicate with them.
Police presence would be obvious with planes overhead and foot patrols etc. So when the boat was recovered and then the other items would LE have changed their approach as they got closer. Trying to bring them out safely.

I also wonder if gunshots were heard and that’s what lead LE to the boat and final search perimeter.

 

[copkid]

Isn't it still possible to get any type of gun on the street (black market) in Canada? I ask because a long arm type weapon is more challenging to commit suicide with? It's possible that they shot each other at the same time. I don't know if that's a logical thing for them to have done, but anything is possible.

A bit of info on black market guns

https://www.cbc.ca/news/national-gun-trafficking-straw-buying-smuggling-firearms-1.5126228

 

[MistyWaters]

I’m just curious if there is a protocol for the air and ground search. Like if searchers used a loudspeaker to attempt communication. The goal in a standoff or when someone is barricaded is to bring them out alive so how is that done? I get this was a much larger area and all that but it was contained somewhat. Just curious, not trying to stir it up.

ERT (Emergency Response Team) was on site. Had the suspects been located or contained, the team’s objective would’ve been to attempt to negotiate a peaceful arrest.

Melissa Tait (@meltait) on Twitter
Aug 7
After the remains were aboard, RCMP ERT members in plain clothes who had been part of the search teams crossed the tarmac to board the same planes for Winnipeg. #canadamanhunt

Emergency Response Team - Royal Canadian Mounted Police
“The mandate of the Emergency Response Team is to assist in the successful resolution of dangerous situations, thereby enhancing public safety and security. This is accomplished through teamwork, professionalism, advanced training and tactics.”

 

[1987]

Did I misunderstand, or were there clothing on the shore 9km from the car, and 1km from their bodies?

Did they run buck naked into the thick Manitoba brush?

as the game rust was explained to me clothing is optional...maybe they were playing the game in real life in their minds....maybe they covered their bodies in mud for a layer of insect protection.

 

[Zella]

I just wonder if there was a time frame where searchers may have had the opportunity to communicate with them.
Police presence would be obvious with planes overhead and foot patrols etc. So when the boat was recovered and then the other items would LE have changed their approach as they got closer. Trying to bring them out safely.

I also wonder if gunshots were heard and that’s what lead LE to the boat and final search perimeter.

Since they had apparently been dead at least a few days before they were found, I think it is unlikely the RCMP heard gunshots that led them there. At the risk of being gross, I have wondered since the bodies were found if the search teams smelled the suspects' decomposing corpses after finding the campsite or dropsite where the stuff was.

 

[Gina20]

LOL. No, not everybody is packing. . BUT. We are 7th in the world of 230 countries assessed for rates of civilian gun ownership. 7th. In the entire world. 2017 estimates suggest that there are almost 13,000,000 firearms in the country. That is not 1000 weirdo hunters who are bucking the crossbow trend who each have 13,000 guns a piece.

Estimated number of civilian guns per capita by country - Wikipedia

I’m sure you’re reflecting the realities of your experience, but it’s just not accurate for the country taken as a whole. The reason a whole lot of us can feel like guns just aren’t a thing here is that outside of hunting, rural life and hobbyists they’re just not part of the mass culture. Unless we’re involved in one of the above pursuits or circumstances, we’re just not thinking about guns. If I want to double flip off that guy in the Walmart parking lot over the parking spot he stole, I’m not worried that he’s going to pull a .45 out of his console. Guns here are just tools, like toasters. There’s no lobby and there’s no meaningful bleeding into concepts like rights and freedoms or fundamental definitions of independence and self-sufficiency. There are however, collectively, a lot of guns around.

People who get into road-rage fights here tend to resolve it with their fists. And it's still something that makes the news. However, one of our federal politicians is a quadriplegic because of road-rage shooting in 1991.

 

[LadyL]

Wow! I did miss that. I'm going to have to google. I saw that they had played airsoft games and gone on camping trips. I didn't know they lived in the bush for months or years at a time. Amazing.

\

[bbm]

I lost the original post that stated that (I know you were just responding to another member who stated it) but I'm pretty sure it's not true.

 

[otto]

I thought the act of suicide was a crime in Canada too, just not one that often sees a person charged.

Assisted suicide did get approved a while ago and the numbers of people choosing that route are surprisingly high.

Church and State
Confusing