Canada - Lucas Fowler, Chynna Deese, and Leonard Dyck, all murdered, Alaska Hwy, BC, Jul 2019 #14

[scrappinkat]

Church and State
Confusing

Lol not confusing but certainly two things that should never be linked together.

 

[MassGuy]

As NJSleuth91 posted earlier, I think this article sums it up. It's in the mindset of this type of killer and is part of the overall plan. Why Spree Killers Kill Themselves

I was watching an old episode of Unsolved Mysteries the other day, that had parallels to this case (crime spree and suicide).

In that one, three heavily armed men went on a shooting spree in Colorado, shooting multiple police officers.

After they were done, they all went their separate ways.

One body was found a couple weeks later, one was found many months later, and the third was found years later.

All three had committed suicide, which was clearly part of the plan.

Here’s a link to the story about the final body finally being found.

Bones in Utah canyon ID'd as fugitive in 1998 shooting spree – The Denver Post

 

[copkid]

I would think it’s relevant if K & B had more then just a friendship.

Not relevant.

 

[Zella]

why was Kam in some ways devoted to protecting him?

SBM

I think some of that could just be rooted in Bryer's upbringing. We don't know as much about Kam's homelife, but it was apparently much less outwardly chaotic and more stable. I'm sure he felt sorry for Bryer. A lot of people did. Kam was also a little older. I think he may have been protective of him because he thought of him like a little brother, especially since he came off as such an awkward oddball with a sad homelife.

 

[otto]

Most, like 99% of hunters in the north use guns. All of my friends hunt, no one uses a bow. I have friends who are guides, they all use guns. But I can see some outfitters doing more specialized hunting with bows for tourists who come to hunt but your average hunters aren’t using bows.

We have lots of geologists, miners, surveyors who are in the remote bush regularly and most just carry bear spray. Some don’t carry anything, but they’re just crazy.

That's my point. Academics carry bear spray (guns when angry about tenure) and hunters use a crossbow. This Canada has guns thing seems exaggerated.

 

[Zella]

I was watching an old episode of Unsolved Mysteries the other day, that had parallels to this case (crime spree and suicide).

In that one, three heavily armed men went on a shooting spree in Colorado, shooting multiple police officers.

After they were done, they all went their separate ways.

One body was found a couple weeks later, one was found many months later, and the third was found years later.

All three had committed suicide, which was clearly part of the plan.

Here’s a link to the story about the final body finally being found.

Bones in Utah canyon ID'd as fugitive in 1998 shooting spree – The Denver Post

Oh my library has a book about that! Every time I see it on the shelf, I want to check it out. But I always have too much stuff out to do so. LOL

 

[Lalalacasbah]

Yes, it's the fact that ostensibly Kam didn't need Bryer--he could drive, he had a vehicle, he was more normal-acting apparently on the surface--but they still clung together like glue that made me start re-evaluating their dynamic.

One of the murder duo cases that really interests me is the Parker-Hulme case. 2 teen girls in 1950s New Zealand killed one of their mothers (the basis for the film Heavenly Creatures). The leader in that one (Hulme) is the crime novelist Anne Perry, and I was always struck by how very cold she was about Parker, given how very close they had ostensibly been. It was like once the jig was up, she had no interest in that association ever again. Parker, meanwhile, apparently was still haunted by the fall-out of their friendship, even decades later.

The In Cold Blood duo also features that. Once they were caught, the leader (Dick) was pretty over the follower (Perry). In fact, he was over Perry before they were caught. LOL And even though Perry was exasperated with him (also even before getting apprehended), he still seemed to demonstrate some lingering loyalty that wasn't really reciprocated.

Maybe out of these pairs one is a psychopath the other a sociopath? Or one is a sociopath and the other not but seeking some validation of sorts.

Maybe the one that can dispose of their friend so easily is a master manipulator and user. Interesting stuff, so ALL this build up and then a climax in the friendship and poof, done. Sounds like an addiction to one another.

 

[sprucetip]

I don't know, I just don't see it...if shootout was the goal, with their "survivalist militia" stuff, you'd think they would take some kind of defensive position and lie in wait for the police, not keep trying to get as far away from the police as possible.



It's possible.



Yeah someone on here told me about that, but I'm not sure of the source.



Yeah but like...there can only be so much to discuss about where to go and all that, and they were on this murder thing for like over a week. Did they have normal conversations on the way there too? Like small talk about random topics? They probably did, right? And it would be bizarre if they did, but also bizarre if they didn't and were just in silence or talking about murdery stuff the whole time, right? Clearly I have thought way too much about this.

I doubt they strayed far from the ‘murdery’ stuff. I bet they couldn’t stop talking about it, how they did it, how awesome they are, what’s their next move, where to eat next, who to kill next, probably listening on the radio for any mention of themselves.

Though the stopping of killing IF they still had ammo is perplexing. But that happens in mass shootings too, where the shooter is just done at a certain point. Maybe they hit that point?

 

[MistyWaters]

The brother of an American tourist who was murdered alongside her Australian boyfriend says he still has no idea why the pair were targeted.

Stetson Deese told Today his sister Chynna and her partner Lucas Fowler's deaths were all the more difficult to comprehend because they had done nothing wrong.

'It's kind of hard to digest what happened to such nice people,' he said.

'We do not know why and more and more may be discovered but I don't think we're ever going to truly know why. It's discomforting because anybody, even some of the worst people in the world, if they met Chynna, the last thing they would want to do was kill her.

Brother learns teenage serial killers who murdered Chynna Deese and Lucas Fowler committed suicide | Daily Mail Online

I’m so sorry for the families grief and suffering and the fact they get no answers and no justice.

I’m so sorry for the pain the three families are suffering as well. These past weeks during the manhunt must’ve been agonizing for them as well, not knowing what the outcome would be or even if it would reach an end.

Suspects in B.C. killings died from self-inflicted gunshot wounds, autopsies reveal
“Ms. Deese’s mother said Monday that the latest developments do not bring her family any peace. In responding to a Globe and Mail request for an interview, she pointed to a Facebook posting.

“There is no closure, but an open wound greater than humanly possible to heal or comprehend,” Sheila Deese wrote on the social-media site.

“I have had a hard time referencing ‘the boys’ and saying their names. How do two people have the same agenda? The same destructive mind?"

Ms. Deese said her family and friends were divided on whether finding the pair alive and committing them to trial would have been a better outcome.

“I believed if they looked my beautiful girl in the face and ended her life, why would looking in my eyes have any impact or foster remorse?”

 

[sprucetip]

I’m just curious if there is a protocol for the air and ground search. Like if searchers used a loudspeaker to attempt communication. The goal in a standoff or when someone is barricaded is to bring them out alive so how is that done? I get this was a much larger area and all that but it was contained somewhat. Just curious, not trying to stir it up.

Doubt it, they had no idea where they were. Shouting into a megaphone randomly into the woods is kind of useless if your suspects are not close by. I could see them doing that if they thought they were in a building or something.

 

[NJSleuth91]

It only matters in the context of the question : who was the leader?

Many speculate Bryer is the leader of the two, and I question why? He's more of an awkward dork than Kam. Cam could pull off charming. Why is the dorkier of the two more of a leader, and why was Kam in some ways devoted to protecting him?

Spoiler alert: two people can have that strong of a bond even if it's totally platonic. Also, just because you have a non-platonic bond with someone, doesn't mean it will be stronger automatically.

People only think Bryer was the leader because of his history of disturbing behavior and the camo. The evidence indicates Kam was the leader. He did all the driving. He was walking in front in the store and looked really focused while Bryer looked more nervous. The guy who helped them out of the mud also said while Kam was operating the car to get it out of the mud, Bryer was standing 100 feet away freaking out.

I was watching an old episode of Unsolved Mysteries the other day, that had parallels to this case (crime spree and suicide).

WTF.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

Morbid thought - not all suicides are successful immediately if someone messes up. I'm curious the type of guns used and where the entry wounds were.

 

[Zella]

Maybe out of these pairs one is a psychopath the other a sociopath? Or one is a sociopath and the other not but seeking some validation of sorts.

Maybe the one that can dispose of their friend so easily is a master manipulator and user. Interesting stuff, so ALL this build up and then a climax in the friendship and poof, done. Sounds like an addiction to one another.

Yes, my understanding is it is usually a more charming but manipulative leader and the follower tends to be an awkward dysfunctional type with anger and depression issues. Though I question how clear-cut that dynamic was with Kam and Bryer (besides Bryer seeming to definitely be awkward and dysfunctional with anger and probably depression, considering his earlier suicidal threats), I think in both the In Cold Blood and Parker-Hulme cases, those characterizations are pretty true.

In regard to the latter, one of the creepiest things I've ever watched was an interview with Anne Perry (Hulme) when she finally talked about the murder. She was so matter-of-fact and like ice. I think the novelist Ian Rankin was interviewing her. They were sitting in a car, and he looked so disturbed that I almost thought he was ready to bail out the door to get away from her!

 

[sprucetip]

As if getting mauled by bears wasn't enough of a threat already, let's drop food where we think the suspects are hiding. There's a great humanitarian idea!

Haha. Not just bears but POLAR bears! I’d take a regular ol’ grizzly or black bear over a freakin polar bear any day. They’re not going to run away startled if they hear you, they’ll come hunting.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

Doubt it, they had no idea where they were. Shouting into a megaphone randomly into the woods is kind of useless if your suspects are not close by. I could see them doing that if they thought they were in a building or something.

I read in one of the articles somewhere, police had camoflage snipers on standby while going through the search area so I imagine they had to be extremely careful.

 

[MistyWaters]

Food drops? So many questions about this, the least of which is they’d have have no idea where to drop food so the suspects can find it. How would the suspects know about food drops?

Not that it matters, because lack of food didn’t kill them.

I was imaging a food drop used in conjunction to a snare pit but no, that would definitely not happen in Canada. That fleeting thought probably came from watching an old Tarzan movie.

 

[mtnstream]

I agree, I think it only became a plan of last resort after it was obvious their escape plan failed. By that point they really had only two other alternatives - to attract attention of LE in some way and voluntarily turn themselves in or get eaten raw by sandflies and die a slow, painful death.

I agree. It's possible they really thought they could make it down the river to Lake Ontario, steal another boat, or find a hunting cabin to hide away for awhile. The suicide was always a final option.

 

[scrappinkat]

That's my point. Academics carry bear spray (guns when angry about tenure) and hunters use a crossbow. This Canada has guns thing seems exaggerated.

Something to know

• 3,000. Estimate of guns bought and sold in Canada every day. (Roughly 1/3 new guns and 2/3 used guns.)

Perhaps you can find a link or something to support your opinion about hunters use a crossbow?

 

[ktm44]

Indeed olive! It would be interesting to know what items they purchased while Walmart employees (I'm guessing there is an employee discount?). Maybe they purchased things to trade for guns/ammo, on the street?

Early on when they went from missing, to suspects, Port Alberni MSM had interviews and quotes from people in the community. Walmart had told their employees to not talk to media at that time. I wonder why Walmart did that.

I worked at Walmart for a brief time and employees get a 10% discount card with their first pay stub after they have been employed for 90 days.

It is actually standard Walmart policy to refer any questions regarding past of present employees or any questions by the media to the store manager. The reason for referring questions to the manager is simply because it is illegal to disclose any employee information and having the media hanging out asking employees questions interferes with the day to day operations of a business.

The employee privacy policy is so strict that when one of the store managers died, employees learned of it through local obituaries, not internally.

 

[Zella]

I worked at Walmart for a brief time and employees get a 10% discount card with their first pay stub after they have been employed for 90 days.

It is actually standard Walmart policy to refer any questions regarding past of present employees or any questions by the media to the store manager. The reason for referring questions to the manager is simply because it is illegal to disclose any employee information and having the media hanging out asking employees questions interferes with the day to day operations of a business.

The employee privacy policy is so strict that when one of the store managers died, employees learned of it through local obituaries, not internally.

This is very interesting--thank you! Sounds like these 2 wouldn't have even stayed enough to qualify for the employee discount.