Canada - Lucas Fowler, Chynna Deese, and Leonard Dyck, all murdered, Alaska Hwy, BC, Jul 2019 #14

[MistyWaters]

Then what about the dignity of BS and KM? RCMP are probably going to tell us how they died tomorrow, aren't they?

I think they will tell us. The difference is B and K are not victims so they’ve no right to privacy even if their families wanted details withheld.

 

[10ofRods]

Autopsies involve medically examining the body to determine what caused the person to die. The RCMP do not employ doctors.

So who does their autopsies/medical examinations? What is their training? Truly curious.

 

[Snoop Sister]

Bolded by me for clarity.

You have mistaken a different opinion for a personal quest to argue in the negative your point of view, or, as in this case, someone else's point of view that you have adopted as your own , as an attack.

Nothing of the sort. Merely, a different perspective, perfectly valid and with as much rational behind it as anyone else's.

Do you think Miss Deese was chosen as a repository for all the hard times Bry had been given by various women of some authority in his life, then? . Perhaps Miss Deese said, as is reasonable to suppose, perhaps she said 'no'. Triggering Bryer's standard response to no, a lack of respect and an outburst, a lethal outburst..

Perhaps that was the motivator of them both. A lifetime of what they saw as a rotten homelife, filled with big people who said no every time a little kid wanted to have something .. you know how it goes, and so off on the highway to make someone pay. ..

How convenient that they ran into an unarmed woman , right there, on the side of the road. A lucky break, you could say.

Bonjour mon ami! Some valid points and yes it is all in perception in a quest to understand the unexplainable.

 

[Trooper]

How cheap is ice to get in Port Alberni? ..

I ask, because the sudden violence, and if one can pick up on what the RCMP is saying obliquely , terrific violence of a remarkable sort, particularly in the case of Miss Deese, ( the stern advice to have a closed casket ) seems to me like the out of nowhere acts that people on ice are inclined to perform , way out of capacity to control, or... perhaps, out of their desire to control.. one or even both conditions. ..

 

[Massasauga Rattler]

question for anyone...which direction were Deese and Fowler traveling on the Alaska highway leading up to their murders? What was their previous known stop/destination before then?

thanks to whoever can answer.

 

[JudgeJudi]

An RCMP spokesperson confirmed on Sunday that the autopsies are complete.

Sgt. Paul Manaigre said RCMP have formalities to complete before they can officially identify the bodies. However, he said it's believed the bodies are those of the suspects.

More details are expected on Monday from RCMP in B.C.

"Under the Fatality Inquiries Act, there's a few procedures that need to be carried out in order for us to … say with absolute certainty that these are the two people," Manaigre said. "So we're just kind of waiting on those formalities to be done and then that information will be shared."

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/bc-fugitive-autopsies-done-1.5243304

 

[Trooper]

So who does their autopsies/medical examinations? What is their training? Truly curious.

I find it difficult to imagine anyone but a doctor , a forensic doctor ,at that, to do an autopsy?

Maybe I am in the deep end of a culture gap!

 

[missy1974]

Then what about the dignity of BS and KM? RCMP are probably going to tell us how they died tomorrow, aren't they?

I have no idea, and considering they were both wanted for murder, I'm okay if the RCMP decides they lost their right to be respected when they murdered 3 people. JMO

I personally think they are keeping quiet on victim's manner of death for a few reasons... respect for the families at this time, and because they may not have enough to connect these 2 to Chynna and Lucas and are still investigating. I don't think the RCMP will keep quiet forever about it, but it will take time.

 

[Snoop Sister]

So who does their autopsies/medical examinations? What is their training? Truly curious.

Medical examiner is a doctor. Usually having completed an anatomical and forensic pathology residency.

 

[Trooper]

Then what about the dignity of BS and KM? RCMP are probably going to tell us how they died tomorrow, aren't they?

 

[JuneBug67]

OIC
nuance

It was kind of understandable emotion, poor execution. He should have known that “Kudos boys!” wouldn’t translate well in the context. As has been noted, his judgement is uneven.

 

[Massasauga Rattler]

I have no idea, and considering they were both wanted for murder, I'm okay if the RCMP decides they lost their right to be respected when they murdered 3 people. JMO

I personally think they are keeping quiet on victim's manner of death for a few reasons... respect for the families at this time, and because they may not have enough to connect these 2 to Chynna and Lucas and are still investigating. I don't think the RCMP will keep quiet forever about it, but it will take time.

As you said, the investigation is still ongoing, so until such time as it is done, they are only suspects/accused. I would think so long as the RCMP had a code of not announcing cause of death to protect the victims dignity, they would ensure first through their investigation that BS and KM were not in fact victim's themselves.

If they already have come to the conclusion they are guilty, then close the investigation, and share the details to the public.

 

[LoisLane]

So who does their autopsies/medical examinations? What is their training? Truly curious.

Common questions about death investigations
What are coroners?
Coroners are medical doctors with specialized death investigation training, who have been appointed to investigate sudden deaths as mandated by the Coroners Act.

What are pathologists and forensic pathologists?
Pathologists are medical doctors who are experts in disease and injury. Forensic pathologists have further training and are experts in disease and injury that result in sudden death. Pathologists and forensic pathologists are the medical doctors who perform autopsies, when required. Forensic pathologists may also be appointed as coroners to investigate cases of suspicious death.

What is a death investigation?
A death investigation is a process whereby a coroner or forensic pathologist seeks to understand how and why a person died. A coroner or forensic pathologist must answer five questions when investigating a death:

• Who (identity of the deceased)
• When (date of death)
• Where (location of death)
• How (medical cause of death)
• By what means (natural causes, accident, homicide, suicide or undetermined)

Information may be obtained from several sources including, but not limited to family, co-workers, neighbours, doctors, hospital records, police and other emergency service workers. Contact with family is vital as they often have important information that can aid the investigation.

How are police involved?
Police are usually among the first responders at a death scene. Coroners may request police assistance with investigations.

Why is a coroner called?
A coroner is called to investigate deaths that appear to be from unnatural causes or natural deaths that occur suddenly or unexpectedly. Additionally, a coroner may become involved when concerns are raised regarding the care provided to an individual prior to death.

...
Autopsy
What is an autopsy?
An autopsy, also known as a postmortem examination, is a process whereby a pathologist or forensic pathologist examines the decedent’s body to help determine cause of death. An autopsy usually includes the examination of internal organs.

Who decides whether an autopsy is needed?
The coroner, often in consultation with a forensic pathologist, will decide if an autopsy is needed.

How does a coroner address family concerns about an autopsy?
The coroner will explain the need for an autopsy and carefully assess concerns expressed by the family. However, the coroner will proceed with ordering an autopsy if he or she believes an autopsy is needed to inform the death investigation. The coroner’s decision is legal and binding.

Who performs the autopsy?
A pathologist or forensic pathologist performs the autopsy.

Common questions about death investigations | Ministry of the Solicitor General

 

[Trooper]

I have no idea, and considering they were both wanted for murder, I'm okay if the RCMP decides they lost their right to be respected when they murdered 3 people. JMO

I personally think they are keeping quiet on victim's manner of death for a few reasons... respect for the families at this time, and because they may not have enough to connect these 2 to Chynna and Lucas and are still investigating. I don't think the RCMP will keep quiet forever about it, but it will take time.

It may never be known who killed whom. One of the leading reasons why no chargers got to be laid against K and B before their death. (1), the charge of 2nd degree for Mr Dyck was sufficient to put in process all the elements of a search and seek operation and ( 2) it couldnt be known whom had exactly murdered which in the matter of Lucas and Miss Deese )

Sorting out if there was one killer, and one watcher, with two victims, as to whom was murdered first, and who was murdered second , and was there two killings by one person, or one killing by each person, ( K and B) .. it may take some time, if ever , for that to be laid down in concrete.

 

[Arizona 123]

Yes I've speculated on this as well. I even said a while ago that my husband was prescribed Adderall in his 20s (not exactly the same as Ritalin but similar effects) and had to stop taking it because he started having violent feelings and thoughts out of nowhere.

I feel like we could probably bet money on that drugs were involved. It just seems to make sense. First of all they usually are in these types of cases. Substance use can mean the difference between violent thoughts and violent acts, holding your tongue or starting something, joking about doing something really stupid like armed robbery and actually going and doing it, etc. I think when Bryer's friend told him "don't go out and kill somebody," and he said "I would never do that," he actually did mean it. Up until that point he was all talk when it came to violence. But drugs could be the missing piece that lowered their inhibitions just enough to push them over the edge into doing something terrible.

Also, two troubled oddball teenagers with a known history of substance use, out on their own for the first time, in the middle of nowhere where cops are unlikely to be around...are we really going to think that they stayed sober? Kam single-handedly driving halfway across the continent in three days...snorting Ritalin would certainly help with that. Their totally baffling and nonsensical decisions too. To paraphrase one of those "Meth: Not Even Once" ads, "Burning your car next to a murder scene to cover up the murder isn't normal...but on amphetamines it is." I'd bet El Chapo's entire fortune that they weren't sober.

I've long wondered about this aspect, which is why I said, a while back, I hope the toxicology report is released at some point. Perhaps illegal drugs, or even prescribed drugs misused (like, snorting them) or even a rare bad reaction to prescribed meds taken as directed, can cause some truly bizarre behavior, paranoia, violence, psychotic behavior, etc.

There are many things about this case that just do not make sense to me (burning their truck, heading for very long dead-end road, burning the RAV4 instead of ditching it in thick cover, etc, etc.) that could be explained by drugs. Could.

What I wrote above is only a guess, and I am absolutely not trying to absolve anyone of any guilt whatsoever, just trying to figure out the cause.

 

[grannygates]

i’m not clear whether the autopsies are being done in BC or Manitoba, but i found on HealthLink BCs website that a pathologist does the autopsy.


Autopsy

 

[Snoop Sister]

I think y’all are forgetting AS is a victim and we don’t sleuth victims on WS. Specifically but not limited to discussion about AS’s past criminal history etc,

 

[Lalalacasbah]

Yes I've speculated on this as well. I even said a while ago that my husband was prescribed Adderall in his 20s (not exactly the same as Ritalin but similar effects) and had to stop taking it because he started having violent feelings and thoughts out of nowhere.

I feel like we could probably bet money on that drugs were involved. It just seems to make sense. First of all they usually are in these types of cases. Substance use can mean the difference between violent thoughts and violent acts, holding your tongue or starting something, joking about doing something really stupid like armed robbery and actually going and doing it, etc. I think when Bryer's friend told him "don't go out and kill somebody," and he said "I would never do that," he actually did mean it. Up until that point he was all talk when it came to violence. But drugs could be the missing piece that lowered their inhibitions just enough to push them over the edge into doing something terrible.

Also, two troubled oddball teenagers with a known history of substance use, out on their own for the first time, in the middle of nowhere where cops are unlikely to be around...are we really going to think that they stayed sober? Kam single-handedly driving halfway across the continent in three days...snorting Ritalin would certainly help with that. Their totally baffling and nonsensical decisions too. To paraphrase one of those "Meth: Not Even Once" ads, "Burning your car next to a murder scene to cover up the murder isn't normal...but on amphetamines it is." I'd bet El Chapo's entire fortune that they weren't sober.

I think a cocktail of no sleep, Ritalin snorting, deep rooted disturbing and/or emotional problems and a history of maybe resenting society/the world makes sense to me too. Them asking about alcohol on the reservation too although that could've been a distraction but who knows.

 

[MNT]

I've dipped out of these threads for a bit so pardon me if I'm posting something that's already been posted. This is an Australian press story about an item found with the two suspects:

The Royal Canadian Mounted Police will make an announcement on the case on Tuesday (AEST).

The RCMP were tight-lipped about what the announcement will be, but autopsies are believed to have been completed on Schmegelsky and McLeod and an item of interest was found near their bodies.​

https://www.smh.com.au/world/north-...ada-could-soon-be-solved-20190812-p52g6g.html

Non-paywall alternative: Canada murder mystery could soon be solved - Shepparton News

 

[JuneBug67]

i’m not clear whether the autopsies are being done in BC or Manitoba, but i found on BCs website that a pathologist does the autopsy.


Autopsy

It’s clear...they were done in Manitoba.