Canada - Lucas Fowler, Chynna Deese, and Leonard Dyck, all murdered, Alaska Hwy, BC, Jul 2019 #21

[musicaljoke]

Heh! I just noticed from the RCMP report, McLeod's Walmart employee id card was located at the Deese Lake crime scene.

RCMP in British Columbia - Overview of Fort Nelson and Dease Lake Homicide Investigation

 

[SovereignSnake]

....or maybe they did see it coming in some form - till it was too late. There is no evidence to show it was 'assisted suicide'. The RCMP would have acknowledge if they said in one of the final videos something like "we are committing suicide, Kam will shoot me in the back of the head, then take his own life". So it's reasonable to also assume, Kam made the decision to kill Bryer. There is enough 'reasonable doubt' simply in that one act.

Unless there's indication in the final video that it was filmed just before they they killed themselves at the river's edge we may never know. Clearly Bryer didn't state Kam would shoot him in the final video or I feel the RCMP would have revealed that piece of information. My opinion is they psyched themselves up, found a fairly ideal spot where their bodies would very likely be found, made their way down the slope to the river, perhaps even that old clunky rifle jammed and they were left with only the new gun. One of them would have to go first. The reality began to set in, the hype and excitement washed away. They may have had a final discussion about what awaits them. They said their goodbyes, they were probably both crying. Bryer may have confessed he was scared and couldn't go through with it and asked Kam to shoot or execute him like a "soldier." Kam I think honored his request but may have said I can't look you in the eyes when I kill you so turn round. Bryer may have even got down on his knees considering how "ritualistic" and militant this whole thing started sounding towards the end. Honestly, I don't know what's more terrifying, having to kill your best friend and possibly the only real love of your life or the moments that followed when Kam was completely alone in the middle of nowhere thousands of miles from home and had to turn the gun on himself. Did Kam immediately shoot himself? Did he sit there in silence for a few minutes? Haunting...

 

[NJSleuth91]

They may not have known who owned those firearms. Nanaimo Cabela knew a SKS and 20 bullets were sold to KM, but they may not have provided that information to RCMP voluntarily.

Kam and Bryer were charged with Professor Dyck's murder on the 23rd. The police knew on the 24th that the same firearms were used in both murder scenes. Also from what I understand, there is some database that tracks firearm purchases so the police must have found the record of the purchase on the 12th fairly quickly.

The second degree murder charge was laid quickly only to permit a Canada wide manhunt. Had the suspects been arrested, the charges could have been changed to first degree. And there was never any rush to lay charges for the two other murders. I'm not bothered at all that time and money wasn't committed to laying charges unnecessarily.

Right but what I'm saying in general is, the police should think about whether this guarded approach of releasing almost no details got the results they wanted. This approach seems to have spawned a lot of conspiracy theories (I'm sure you guys can remember some of the weirder ones that were posted here), and angry letters to the government about the level of secrecy.

Also will say JMO on this one since it partially comes from sources that can't be discussed on here, but there is significant evidence to indicate that the police secrecy extended to not giving any more details than what we got to Kam and Bryer's family and friends, and that uncertainty for two months was very distressing to them.

I think this is more common in the United States where translation of statutes is far more liberal including premeditation only requires a short amount of preplanning. It’s different in Canada and you will find online many similar examples of 2nd degree convictions of strangers murdered involving robbery as well. I’m not defending our laws, that’s just how it is. Regardless, the maximum sentence of 2nd degree murder is 25 years before parole and 1st degree is automatic “life” prior to parole. As a life sentence is defined at max 25 years, there’s no difference with maximum 2nd degree sentencing since the death penalty is never a consideration here. It only recently that Canada has began consecutive sentencing for multiple murders, as opposed to concurrent.

Interesting, I didn't know that. Except the thing is...there was a failed murder attempt that happened on July 17th. And the police found out about it on July 21st. All of those things together really added up to premeditation, don't you think?

And if the police had mentioned that failed murder attempt during the August 7th press conference, even in vague terms, I think it would have shut down a lot of the conspiracy theories and definitely would have shut down the question about premeditation.

Jesus I read the report and i know nothing of Canada but the many places and the miles driven just wow.They were on a spree and thousand wonders only killed 3.Unbelievable

I think that's what threw many people off of the idea of it being an intentional killing spree -- the fact that the murders stopped. I'm not sure I've ever heard of another case of a killing spree where the killers stopped, instead of continuing to kill at a consistent or escalating rate until they either died or were captured.

There were a lot of things about this case that were atypical. The lack of any previous criminal history was another one.

At the time they likely didn't know for sure that this killing spree was planned so they couldn't prove that they plotted to kill Leonard versus just running into him on the side of the road, and decided to kill him right then and there.

They knew about the failed murder attempt on July 17th. That was reported on July 21st.

i got a question for those who have a better grasp of the facts:Had they already killed LD before the store video where they were just walking around and left the store.

Yes.

 

[MistyWaters]

i got a question for those who have a better grasp of the facts:Had they already killed LD before the store video where they were just walking around and left the store.

The three murders occurred in BC. The video from Meadow Lake, Sask was released when they were named suspects, after they fled from BC in LDs vehicle. .

If you only just noticed this case, this update of the police investigation is helpful.

RCMP in British Columbia - Overview of Fort Nelson and Dease Lake Homicide Investigation

 

[Chingaling]

Kam and Bryer were charged with Professor Dyck's murder on the 23rd. The police knew on the 24th that the same firearms were used in both murder scenes. Also from what I understand, there is some database that tracks firearm purchases so the police must have found the record of the purchase on the 12th fairly quickly.



Right but what I'm saying in general is, the police should think about whether this guarded approach of releasing almost no details got the results they wanted. This approach seems to have spawned a lot of conspiracy theories (I'm sure you guys can remember some of the weirder ones that were posted here), and angry letters to the government about the level of secrecy.

Also will say JMO on this one since it partially comes from sources that can't be discussed on here, but there is significant evidence to indicate that the police secrecy extended to not giving any more details than what we got to Kam and Bryer's family and friends, and that uncertainty for two months was very distressing to them.



Interesting, I didn't know that. Except the thing is...there was a failed murder attempt that happened on July 17th. And the police found out about it on July 21st. All of those things together really added up to premeditation, don't you think?

And if the police had mentioned that failed murder attempt during the August 7th press conference, even in vague terms, I think it would have shut down a lot of the conspiracy theories and definitely would have shut down the question about premeditation.



I think that's what threw many people off of the idea of it being an intentional killing spree -- the fact that the murders stopped. I'm not sure I've ever heard of another case of a killing spree where the killers stopped, instead of continuing to kill at a consistent or escalating rate until they either died or were captured.

There were a lot of things about this case that were atypical. The lack of any previous criminal history was another one.



They knew about the failed murder attempt on July 17th. That was reported on July 21st.



Yes.

Wow and so calm just walking around.Crazy

 

[Runningforthewind]

I think that's what threw many people off of the idea of it being an intentional killing spree -- the fact that the murders stopped. I'm not sure I've ever heard of another case of a killing spree where the killers stopped, instead of continuing to kill at a consistent or escalating rate until they either died or were captured.

There were a lot of things about this case that were atypical. The lack of any previous criminal history was another one.

This also makes me question that these two are psychopaths. I'm wondering if they were on some kind of substances that numbed their emotions.

 

[Runningforthewind]

Regardless, the maximum sentence of 2nd degree murder is 25 years before parole and 1st degree is automatic “life” prior to parole. As a life sentence is defined at max 25 years, there’s no difference with maximum 2nd degree sentencing since the death penalty is never a consideration here. It only recently that Canada has began consecutive sentencing for multiple murders, as opposed to concurrent.

That is partially false.
"235. (1) Every one who commits first degree murder or second degree murder is guilty of an indictable offence and shall be sentenced to imprisonment for life."

"in respect of a person who has been convicted of second degree murder, that the person be sentenced to imprisonment for life without eligibility for parole until the person has served at least ten years of the sentence or such greater number of years, not being more than twenty-five years, as has been substituted therefor pursuant to section 745.4"

Canadian Criminal Sentencing/Offences/Homicide - Wikibooks, open books for an open world

 

[MistyWaters]

Heh! I just noticed from the RCMP report, McLeod's Walmart employee id card was located at the Deese Lake crime scene.

RCMP in British Columbia - Overview of Fort Nelson and Dease Lake Homicide Investigation

Yes, also Ks SIM card. The six crime scenes refers to locations where evidence was collected. There’s a map on your link.

“Remnants of these items were recovered in two separate areas near the Dease Lake crime scene on July 22 and July 23, 2019. Furthermore, a damaged SIM card belonging to McLeod and his Walmart employee id card was located along with these remnants. Six scenes were identified over a 50 kilometer radius.”

 

[NJSleuth91]

Heh! I just noticed from the RCMP report, McLeod's Walmart employee id card was located at the Deese Lake crime scene.

RCMP in British Columbia - Overview of Fort Nelson and Dease Lake Homicide Investigation

I feel like that was sending a message. "Yesterday I was just another cog in the Walmart machine, now I'm a notorious killer on the run!"

This also makes me question that these two are psychopaths. I'm wondering if they were on some kind of substances that numbed their emotions.

I still wouldn't be surprised if they were on something, but clearly something was seriously wrong with them beyond that. I don't think we will ever know exactly why they stopped killing instead of continuing on.

Over the past couple of weeks I was thinking more and more that they were psychologically similar to the Columbine shooters, and I still see that -- right down to the delusions of grandeur and desire for notoriety. Basically a mixture of psychopathy/sociopathy, depression (ie. committing suicide), feeling wronged by and angry at the world, and some weird folie a deux type of thing.

Anyway from what I've read, spree killers usually kill out of rage. If their victims are random that indicates rage against the world/society in general.

Thrill killers usually kill for power: "Those identified as thrill killers are typically young males, but other profile characteristics may vary, according to Jack Levin, director of the Brudnick Center on Conflict and Violence at Northeastern University. The major common denominator with those who commit thrill killings is that they usually feel inadequate and are driven by a need to feel powerful. "To a certain extent, they [thrill killers] may make their victims suffer so that they can feel good," said Levin. "Sadism is fairly common in thrill killings. The killer might torture, degrade, or rape his victim before he takes his or her life.""

That sounds completely spot on with all of the discussion we've had of their backgrounds and factors that might have led them to choose to be violent.

I imagine some events must have happened leading up to this that pushed them to a "point of no return." Even if they had violent fantasies and lack of empathy before this, they were able to be pro-social for 19 years. At some point they lost their desire to do that. I wonder if we will ever know what happened.

 

[MistyWaters]

That is partially false.
"235. (1) Every one who commits first degree murder or second degree murder is guilty of an indictable offence and shall be sentenced to imprisonment for life."

"in respect of a person who has been convicted of second degree murder, that the person be sentenced to imprisonment for life without eligibility for parole until the person has served at least ten years of the sentence or such greater number of years, not being more than twenty-five years, as has been substituted therefor pursuant to section 745.4"

Canadian Criminal Sentencing/Offences/Homicide - Wikibooks, open books for an open world

What’s partially false? Your quote mentions maximum sentencing for 2nd degree murder is 25 years without parole, which was my point.

 

[Jan424]

Honestly, I don't know what's more terrifying, having to kill your best friend and possibly the only real love of your life or the moments that followed when Kam was completely alone in the middle of nowhere thousands of miles from home and had to turn the gun on himself. Did Kam immediately shoot himself? Did he sit there in silence for a few minutes? Haunting...

SBM
Haunting is indeed the perfect word to describe that scene.

 

[sandbar]

Did Kam immediately shoot himself? Did he sit there in silence

...or, did he take a selfie?

 

[Chingaling]

I wonder which on shot LD since only shot once
by one gun?

 

[NJSleuth91]

And don't ya just love how they say they are not going to release cause of death and then go on to say that he was beaten about the head with bruising and burns and then killed by gunshot.WTH is up with that

I also thought it was weird that they didn't release cause of death on August 7th if they were going to release it in the report anyway.

 

[SovereignSnake]

"But before Manitoba, after they killed Deese and Fowler and before killing Dyck, the two did in fact cross the border into the Yukon on July 15, stopping at a gas station. According to police, Schmegelsky had hunted with his father in the area a number of times."

Obviously the reporter meant; "McLeod had hunted with his father in the area..." I suspected Kam had somewhat of a hunting background, but again, I wonder how extensive it was? Was this a yearly tradition he and his Dad did together? Was it something Kam grew out of as he got older? I hunted with my Dad and my brothers from age 12 to 25 and I've never been out with them since. Personally, they were wonderful times but I simply outgrew it. This also got me thinking, Kam's family did indeed have guns. So why did Kam choose to buy his own rather than take one of his Dad's? Did Kam not want anything to come back on the family should he and Bryer get into any trouble? Or did Kam have no access to his Dad's guns? I find that somewhat hard to believe. Surely his Dad could have bought him a gun when he got his gun license? Pardon the projection, but that was what my Dad did when I got my permit at age 12. Same went for my twin brother and younger brother. It must have been Kam wanted nothing to happen to his parents should it all come crashing down.

 

[NJSleuth91]

Clearly Bryer didn't state Kam would shoot him in the final video or I feel the RCMP would have revealed that piece of information.

SBM

I'm pretty sure it was their plan all along and they said in the videos that's what they were going to do.

From the report: "Based on the autopsy findings, the firearms lab report, analysis of the scene and the content of the videos it is believed that McLeod shot Schmegelsky before shooting himself in a suicide pact."

I think Bryer probably had this very specific fantasy for a long time of Kam being the one to kill him. It's really the ultimate expression of their codependency, isn't it?

 

[NJSleuth91]

So why did Kam choose to buy his own rather than take one of his Dad's? Did Kam not want anything to come back on the family should he and Bryer get into any trouble? Or did Kam have no access to his Dad's guns? I find that somewhat hard to believe. Surely his Dad could have bought him a gun when he got his gun license? Pardon the projection, but that was what my Dad did when I got my permit at age 12 same went for my twin brother. It must have been Kam wanted nothing to happen to his parents should it all come crashing down.

Given their other interests and the "militia" thing, I think they wanted to use that specific type/manufacturer of gun for symbolic reasons.

 

[SovereignSnake]

Given their other interests and the "militia" thing, I think they wanted to use that specific type/manufacturer of gun for symbolic reasons.

@NJSleuth91 that's an excellent point! This whole thing sounded so ritualistic and militant, especially in the final days. I didn't take into consideration the SKS is a Russian Rifle so this makes total sense.

 

[MistyWaters]

I also thought it was weird that they didn't release cause of death on August 7th if they were going to release it in the report anyway.

Now we know his family didn’t even realize LD was the third murder victim until they contacted police on July 23rd based on the drawing. What a horrible and traumatic shock it must’ve been for them to learn it was him.

On August 8th, his sister described his murder “violently and in cold blood”.
Family of B.C. murder victim remembers Leonard Dyck as ‘gentle soul,’ family man

But still for some reason speculation of his possible accidental death seemed to persist in MSM comment sections and on SM in defense if the potential innocence of B&K. Even though by then the suspects were described as “armed and dangerous” and had been charged in LDs murder, 2nd degree which includes the element of Intent to Kill (as opposed to manslaughter). Had LD been outrightly beaten to death, would’ve that made any difference as opposed to murder caused by one single bullet? No, I don’t think so and so releasing his exact cause of death was less important without mention of other types of cruel violence that was involved as he was not shot once, execution style.

In Canada the family does have say in how much information is released. I’m certain if a family member of any one of us were murdered and we noticed the gravity of his or her violent murder being downplayed and minimized, we’d certainly agree to the release of additional information to set the record straight.

Family of B.C. murder victim remembers Leonard Dyck as ‘gentle soul,’ family man

 

[FactFinder3000]

https://www.peacearchnews.com/news/...ix-facts-about-b-c-s-triple-homicide-manhunt/

FALSE REPORTING! The above source claims:

"On July 20, as police started processing the crime scene near Dease Lake, the coroner confirmed that Dyck’s body had been moved from an unknown location."

That never happened. He died of a gunshot wound and the spent casing was found at the scene.