Canada - Lucas Fowler, Chynna Deese, and Leonard Dyck, all murdered, Alaska Hwy, BC, Jul 2019 #21

[Lalalacasbah]

This is amazing:

``The officers weren’t sure exactly where the sleeping bag and backpack had been found, but Mr. Beardy remembered the spot. He powered down his jet boat as they approached the rapids, but they were still moving quickly in the fast-flowing water, giving them only split seconds to scan the shoreline.

That’s when Mr. Beardy noticed a raven jump up from the brush. “Did you see that?” he asked the officer behind him.

Mr. Beardy spun the boat around and headed toward where the raven had been. A lifelong hunter, he knew the bird could be scavenging on something.

“As soon as we got to the shore, sure enough, we saw them,” Mr. Beardy says.`

At first, they could only see one of the fugitives in the sloped thick brush, Kam McLeod. An RCMP officer scrambled out of the boat and raised his gun. Mr. McLeod was bearded, dressed in a camouflage top and black rain pants, Mr. Beardy recalls.

Mr. Schmegelsky was found about one and a half metres away, lower down on the slope. He was dressed in full camouflage.

View attachment 206633


How the RCMP found Canada’s most wanted fugitives with a raven, a Cree trapper and luck

Mr. Beardy, just unreal. I loved reading this part of the story. What are the odds?

 

[Schmoosh]

Maybe...

I just checked a photo I took last month and when I checked the properties, it shows not only the date but the time it was taken. However, there is the odd time I do turn on my date stamp for certain reasons so I guess the info is still recorded 'in the background' of my photos.

If LD never used the date stamp ever on his camera, it possibly wouldn't have a date to record. If he never set up that part of his camera when he got it, there'd be no way the camera would know that info.

The RCMP didn`t say that there was no date-time information on the videos and pictures; they only said: forensic analysis to date has been unable to determine the exact date and time for when each of the videos and still images were taken.

 

[Trooper]

How do we know that?

We can reasonably assume what Lala wrote was absolutely well within the rational range of speculation, by the stark and controlled description given in the RCMP report.

'On July 19, 2019, an autopsy was performed on Fowler and Deese. The pathologist concluded that Fowler and Deese both died of multiple gunshot wounds. It appears that the shooter(s) stood behind the victims for at least some of the shots. '


So we can safely presume that neither Miss Deese, nor Mr Fowler fell down immediately. Both of them were standing vertical to their killers for at least some of the bullets entering their bodies.

Perhaps they were tied up, together. Even tied up to something that propped them up. That they stood long enough for McLeod and Schmeg to fire multiples of shot into them while standing behind them . We know, because it was seen and remarked upon that the bodies appeared to be arranged in death, that is, post mortem. After the killing. Which may have been all the tidying up McLeod and Schmeg felt like doing, although they didn't cover the bodies, the ultimate insult.

That they fired at least some of the shots while standing behind their victims that indicated neither of the shooters went for the 'kill shot' . That is, they shot around and to the left and the right, prolonging the event for themselves.

It is probable they were still firing at them once Miss Deese and Mr Fowler had fallen and began the process of dying by multiple gunshot. It is not an unreasonable assumption.

There is not much point being offended at this outline, because this is what murder is. This was, as far as is known, the first murder/s they did, it is unreasonable to assume they knew exactly what they were doing, or what would be the effect. It was experimental, for them. They probably had a few missed shots and shots that didn't kill but maimed / disabled . They were amateurs. It was totally different to Airfire games in the woods.

<modsnip: unnecessarily graphic>

 

[LoisLane]

I just noticed that too! I wonder why it was described differently than RCMP's official list. I guess we'll never really know, and you could be right!

Well.. there are a few items listed twice so maybe the order isn’t accurate. I wonder if discrepancies will be noted and amendments issued.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

I’m exactly here too.

I just wouldn't be surprised. Might not be the case but I think it's definitely possible!

 

[LoisLane]

The RCMP didn`t say that there was no date-time information on the videos and pictures; they only said: forensic analysis to date has been unable to determine the exact date and time for when each of the videos and still images were taken.

I wonder since it was LD’s camera and if he was using it to document if he would have activated the time stamp.

When my mom takes pics her timestamp is way off by months and years so it could be something like that too or they just didn’t have it activated or pay attention to that detail. But I imagined hey would have started there posts with an intro of the date but I guess that wasn’t the case.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

The RCMP didn`t say that there was no date-time information on the videos and pictures; they only said: forensic analysis to date has been unable to determine the exact date and time for when each of the videos and still images were taken.

This is very odd to me. I've had digital cameras since they first came out way back and I'm pretty sure that when you load them on a computer, they get loaded in with date and time even if time stamp turned off (I've never been one to use it).

I will take the word "to date" in that quote to mean, they haven't completed this analysis as it HAS to be there. Maybe there's reason to delay this tidbit of info? All MOO

 

[LadyL]

wow just getting caught up
thanks everyone for the descriptions and links
thanks Trooper for your always eloquent posts

 

[Lalalacasbah]

I wonder since it was LD’s camera and if he was using it to document if he would have activated the time stamp.

When my mom takes pics her timestamp is way off by months and years so it could be something like that too or they just didn’t have it activated or pay attention to that detail. But I imagined hey would have started there posts with an intro of the date but I guess that wasn’t the case.

Oh good point about the date and time having to be set correctly/current in the first place before even using time stamp option on photos.

But as you say, LD probably had it set right. He was a prof, I could see his camera definitely being set accurately to document his trip. And agreed - if B&K were into any notoriety after the fact, they would've been bragging and had the dates right probably.

 

[Kubirai]

There is in HJ but not out that far. But the witness could have gone right to the RCMP station in HJ.

He could have thought police will be skeptical, until he heard about the murdered couple, or saw road signs.


Since these killers were dumb, RCMP knew where they went, until Kam got rid of his SIM.

A video from a store in Dease Lake showed Schmegelsky and McLeod buying items ... Remnants of the items were found near the place Dyck was found, as well as a damaged SIM card belonging to McLeod

 

[FactFinder3000]

This is very odd to me. I've had digital cameras since they first came out way back and I'm pretty sure that when you load them on a computer, they get loaded in with date and time even if time stamp turned off (I've never been one to use it).

I will take the word "to date" in that quote to mean, they haven't completed this analysis as it HAS to be there. Maybe there's reason to delay this tidbit of info? All MOO

On older cameras, if the battery died or was removed, the date and time would reset to something like 1971-01-01 00:00:00 every single time. It was annoying as heck, since every time you would then have to manually set it if you wanted it to be accurate.

But that would have to be a pretty old camera. Like 20 years. Or maybe some really cheap cameras still do this?

 

[MistyWaters]

Oh good point about the date and time having to be set correctly/current in the first place before even using time stamp option on photos.

But as you say, LD probably had it set right. He was a prof, I could see his camera definitely being set accurately to document his trip. And agreed - if B&K were into any notoriety after the fact, they would've been bragging and had the dates right probably.

If it was older camera, the correct date/time has to be manually input every time the batteries are changed. If not the default date on mine was year 2004.

I’m certain we can believe the police - they were unable to determine the accurate date and time on the videos...because the date/time was incorrect, not because they didn’t know how to find it.

 

[Solaris420]

This is very odd to me. I've had digital cameras since they first came out way back and I'm pretty sure that when you load them on a computer, they get loaded in with date and time even if time stamp turned off (I've never been one to use it).

I will take the word "to date" in that quote to mean, they haven't completed this analysis as it HAS to be there. Maybe there's reason to delay this tidbit of info? All MOO

There is something called metadata that is recorded when you take a photograph, even if you have the timestamp option off. When the photograph is analysed with a computer you can read the metadata and see the date, time, and camera details among other things. I wonder if the RCMP is hiding this info on purpose?

It could be the camera was set to the wrong date, but if Leonard was on a research trip surely he would have set it correctly to document findings?

 

[Satchie]

I will take the word "to date" in that quote to mean, they haven't completed this analysis as it HAS to be there. Maybe there's reason to delay this tidbit of info? All MOO

Yes, it makes me curious. Possible the forensic expert hasn't completed the analysis. Possibly they don't want to make that public?

The date and time can be very inaccurate, but it's pretty easy for me to correct for that by simply taking a current photo and noting how far off the photo is from the known date and time. But that might not be the scientifically/forensically acceptable method. I recall the forensic expert in the Millard case did all sorts of fancy analysis on surveillance footage to correct inaccurate time and date, synchronizing to sunset, etc.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

There is something called metadata that is recorded when you take a photograph, even if you have the timestamp option off. When the photograph is analysed with a computer you can read the metadata and see the date, time, and camera details among other things. I wonder if the RCMP is hiding this info on purpose?

It could be the camera was set to the wrong date, but if Leonard was on a research trip surely he would have set it correctly to document findings?

My question as well... I'm baffled.

 

[Schmoosh]

This is very odd to me. I've had digital cameras since they first came out way back and I'm pretty sure that when you load them on a computer, they get loaded in with date and time even if time stamp turned off (I've never been one to use it).

I will take the word "to date" in that quote to mean, they haven't completed this analysis as it HAS to be there. Maybe there's reason to delay this tidbit of info? All MOO

It is there. They just said that they can`t prove it`s accurate.

 

[MistyWaters]

There is something called metadata that is recorded when you take a photograph, even if you have the timestamp option off. When the photograph is analysed with a computer you can read the metadata and see the date, time, and camera details among other things. I wonder if the RCMP is hiding this info on purpose?

I wonder if you’re comparing older camera/video recorders to modern cellphones. Cellphones do not require that we set accurate date/times because they’re connected to some sort of service provider. However older cameras are stand-alone devices and did require an accurate date/time to be manually input each and every time the chronically short-lived batteries were changed in order for metadata to accurately reveal the date/time.

 

[Schmoosh]

In case anyone is interested in the warning behaviour of Ìdentification that was referred to in the RCMP`s report where it said The RCMP Behavioural Analysis Unit (BAU) conducted a review of the videos of McLeod and Schmegelsky. BAU was concerned with a behaviour called "identification", which is considered a "warning behaviour" in the context of threat assessment., here`s a little info:

https://blog.oup.com/2012/12/warning-behavior-targeted-violence/

Perspective: Identifying Warning Behaviors of the Individual Terrorist — LEB

New psychological study finds traits common to 'active shooters' - Journalist's Resource`

"The BAU consulted with Dr. Reid Meloy, a forensic psychologist and a world leading expert in threat assessment and he agreed that the videos should not be released. His and others research has shown that those individuals who commit mass casualty attacks are often heavily inspired by previous attackers and their behaviours."

Dr. Meloy co-wrote this article: The Concept of Identification in Threat Assessment. - PubMed - NCBI , as well as the first two articles.

 

[srper2]

DBM

 

[srper2]

My question as well... I'm baffled.

Probably Mr. Beardy will need to go and show them how to find this as well! (Just joking!)