Canada - Lucas Fowler, Chynna Deese, and Leonard Dyck, all murdered, Alaska Hwy, BC, Jul 2019 #22

[CanadianSleuther]

I don't really believe deception and disguise were paramount for these two.

I agree. I think they added the electrical tape to look cool. Some thought that Bryer bought a cowboy had in an attempt to disguise but I think in both cases, it was an impulsive decision. Maybe even a way to make the stolen vehicle their own in a twisted way.

 

[SovereignSnake]

I do know they found one of the plates for the RAV not far from where they burned it. I believe someone reported they found it in or by Sundance Creek specifically. I think they took the plates off before they burned it as yet another trivial attempt to make a car untraceable or least slow down the search or simply to be trolls. I always wondered why they didn't just park it in that old log camp or whatever that big open area is on the map and cover it in brush. Then again, as we discussed weeks ago, that may have not been an option if they slid off the road or just ran out of gas. Boy, they really didn't do their homework on some of this stuff, like the VIN Number for example. But to be fair, I don't think most of this was planned nor did they care. More just go with the flow, see what happens. I don't think they transferred plates though. I'm also unsure if the investigators removed Kam's plates or he did it himself and threw them off a bridge. I noticed the first letter on the Dodge's font plate was "L" and it's difficult to make out in the Fairview photo but it looks like the first letter in the RAV's back plate is "P."

"Police believe the murder suspects were unloading weight as they ran through the woods. As more evidence linked to the pair was discovered, including the license plate of the SUV belonging to Mr. Dyck, a previously announced scale-back of the manhunt never really happened."

How the RCMP found Canada’s most wanted fugitives with a raven, a Cree trapper and luck

 

[LadyL]

I'm Canadian too!

I mean gun control, gun regulation, and just plain guns used by people for killing people are a big deal...

oh I think you meant they are a big deal ... not a huge issue in the sense of a problem?

 

[SovereignSnake]

I will also add, the electrical tape racing stripes has been another lingering oddity for me. On one hand I do think Kam and Bryer actually believed it would make them less distinguishable, yet why not buy spray paint? On the other, I wonder if they respected having such a nice vehicle, they must keep up the appearance or they feared a trashy spray paint job would make them stick out even more so? I must admit, they did do a pretty meticulous job with the tape judging by the Fairview photo. The Meadow Lake one is blurry but you can still see the tape.

 

[tabitha111]

oh I think you meant they are a big deal ... not a huge issue in the sense of a problem?

You know what's funny/interesting is that I follow the RCMP now because of this case, both on twitter and facebook and am truly interested in whats up in Canada! Almost every day there is a photo of a cache of guns they have come across or a gun mentioned in a crime...there are a lot more gun cases up there than you might think.


RCMP Manitoba‏Verified account @rcmpmb Oct 7
Flin Flon #rcmpmb were conducting an investigation on Hwy 10, 15km from Flin Flon on Sept 29 @ 10:30pm, when a truck sped passed them. Officers stopped the truck & further investigation led to a large seizure of drugs, guns, weapons & cash. Two arrested. http://rcmp-grc.ca/60275

 

[sandbar]

oh I think you meant they are a big deal ... not a huge issue in the sense of a problem?

I think guns are a problem.

I think the origin of the gun that was assembled is an issue, and I think RCMP is still trying to track down where it came from.

✌

 

[NJSleuth91]

I do know they found one of the plates for the RAV not far from where they burned it. I believe someone reported they found it in or by Sundance Creek specifically. I think they took the plates off before they burned it as yet another trivial attempt to make a car untraceable or least slow down the search or simply to be trolls. I always wondered why they didn't just park it in that old log camp or whatever that big open area is on the map and cover it in brush. Then again, as we discussed weeks ago, that may have not been an option if they slid off the road or just ran out of gas. Boy, they really didn't do their homework on some of this stuff, like the VIN Number for example. But to be fair, I don't think most of this was planned nor did they care. More just go with the flow, see what happens. I don't think they transferred plates though. I'm also unsure if the investigators removed Kam's plates or he did it himself and threw them off a bridge. I noticed the first letter on the Dodge's font plate was "L" and it's difficult to make out in the Fairview photo but it looks like the first letter in the RAV's back plate is "P."

"Police believe the murder suspects were unloading weight as they ran through the woods. As more evidence linked to the pair was discovered, including the license plate of the SUV belonging to Mr. Dyck, a previously announced scale-back of the manhunt never really happened."

How the RCMP found Canada’s most wanted fugitives with a raven, a Cree trapper and luck

I will also add, the electrical tape racing stripes has been another lingering oddity for me. On one hand I do think Kam and Bryer actually believed it would make them less distinguishable, yet why not buy spray paint? On the other, I wonder if they respected having such a nice vehicle, they must keep up the appearance or they feared a trashy spray paint job would make them stick out even more so? I must admit, they did do a pretty meticulous job with the tape judging by the Fairview photo. The Meadow Lake one is blurry but you can still see the tape.

Somehow I missed the part when I read that article about Professor Dyck's license plate (singular...did they only remove one of the plates?) being dumped nearby. Did they really bring it into the woods with them, of all things? Did they really think the police wouldn't find it, or that removing it would make the car untraceable? Kam also brought his wallet with him and dumped it near the river. Like...why? These guys did so many things that made zero logical sense.

Like the racing stripe thing is so monumentally stupid as a method of disguise, and yet also a completely esoteric thing to think of doing. I would never even have considered that anyone would even come up with that idea. It's like something one of the characters on It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia would come up with.

 

[sandbar]

Like...why? These guys did so many things that made zero logical sense.

I think their logic was that they did (or didn't do) whatever they thought made sense (or didn't) at the time. I think that was also the extent of their planning. They made a plan and stuck to it until they needed another plan.

 

[NJSleuth91]

I think their logic was that they did (or didn't do) whatever they thought made sense (or didn't) at the time. I think that was also the extent of their planning. They made a plan and stuck to it until they needed another plan.

I guess...it's just that I don't think their decision-making process made sense to anyone on the planet besides them.

Even when it came to notoriety. They wanted to do this for notoriety but they didn't leverage social media for that purpose at all, as almost all mass killers do. But then, even weirder than that, Professor Dyck just so happened to have a camera which they stole and that's what they recorded the videos on. So if Professor Dyck hadn't had a camera, would they just not have recorded anything at all? The recordings seemed to be an important part of this for them, and yet it seemed like they didn't even plan to record videos at first. And, plus, did they really think the police would make their videos public?

 

[Jan424]

Somehow I missed the part when I read that article about Professor Dyck's license plate (singular...did they only remove one of the plates?) being dumped nearby. Did they really bring it into the woods with them, of all things? Did they really think the police wouldn't find it, or that removing it would make the car untraceable? Kam also brought his wallet with him and dumped it near the river. Like...why? These guys did so many things that made zero logical sense.

Like the racing stripe thing is so monumentally stupid as a method of disguise, and yet also a completely esoteric thing to think of doing. I would never even have considered that anyone would even come up with that idea. It's like something one of the characters on It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia would come up with.

Didn’t Kam leave his wallet in the backpack along with clothing and more bullets? I’ve been wondering about that since the pack was found on August 1st.... if, when he dumped it, he knew he wouldn’t need any of it anymore. So maybe that might narrow down date of death to last few days of July perhaps? I don’t know, just thinking aloud.

 

[NJSleuth91]

Didn’t Kam leave his wallet in the backpack along with clothing and more bullets? I’ve been wondering about that since the pack was found on August 1st.... if, when he dumped it, he knew he wouldn’t need any of it anymore. So maybe that might narrow down date of death to last few days of July perhaps? I don’t know, just thinking aloud.

Yes. But why bring it into the wilderness in the first place? It's not like he would need his wallet in general.

I really have no idea of when they died. I originally thought they probably didn't last more than a few days. But the fact that their remains were instantly recognizable when they were found, makes me wonder if they lasted up until a couple of days before they were found. That statement a couple of days before they were found when the police said they were confident they were no longer a threat, also makes me think the police heard the gunshots.

 

[poupetty77]

Yes. But why bring it into the wilderness in the first place? It's not like he would need his wallet in general.

I really have no idea of when they died. I originally thought they probably didn't last more than a few days. But the fact that their remains were instantly recognizable when they were found, makes me wonder if they lasted up until a couple of days before they were found. That statement a couple of days before they were found when the police said they were confident they were no longer a threat, also makes me think the police heard the gunshots.

But that doesn't make sense (how many times can we write that?) because they would have walked 8 km, gone down the slope and got stuck there for weeks before killing themselves.

Or stayed in the bush for two weeks, then gone down the slope and got stuck and killed themselves?

But they said they wanted to kill again. So the timing would be to hide for two weeks in the bush, go down the slope, film the videos, realise they were stuck, film more videos and then kill themselves?

Or they didn't mean what they say in the video and never planned to go kill again, but why stay 2 weeks so close to their car?

 

[cartman]

Wasn’t there a certain point when RCMP declared they were scaling back their search when they really weren’t? I seem to recall reading they did that after finding some of their belongings. But it’s all blurring together for me, really wish I had kept dated notes!

 

[Runningforthewind]

Or they didn't mean what they say in the video and never planned to go kill again

I believe they weren't in their right mind.

 

[NJSleuth91]

But that doesn't make sense (how many times can we write that?) because they would have walked 8 km, gone down the slope and got stuck there for weeks before killing themselves.

Or stayed in the bush for two weeks, then gone down the slope and got stuck and killed themselves?

But they said they wanted to kill again. So the timing would be to hide for two weeks in the bush, go down the slope, film the videos, realise they were stuck, film more videos and then kill themselves?

Or they didn't mean what they say in the video and never planned to go kill again, but why stay 2 weeks so close to their car?

I really don't know. I don't think they actually planned to go back and kill more people though. First of all that would not be feasible considering even if they got out of the woods, they would be dozens of miles from the nearest civilization. Second of all, if they actually did want to try to kill more people, all they had to do was lure the Mounties to their location (not difficult to do since the Mounties were specifically looking for them) and engage them in a shootout. My feeling is they said that to be dramatic but were in "suicide mode" and planning to kill themselves at that point. Although who knows.

But yeah I hope the autopsy report comes out with a more exact date of death. Because I always felt like they only lived 3-5 days. Considering how close they were to their original location, I feel like the police would have found them sooner if they had lived for a while. But the fact that their remains were apparently not that decomposed by the description given in that article, indicates that maybe it was longer than that.

Wasn’t there a certain point when RCMP declared they were scaling back their search when they really weren’t? I seem to recall reading they did that after finding some of their belongings. But it’s all blurring together for me, really wish I had kept dated notes!

Yes on July 29th after they found hundreds of bullets scattered around.

How the RCMP found Canada’s most wanted fugitives with a raven, a Cree trapper and luck

 

[Jan424]

But then, even weirder than that, Professor Dyck just so happened to have a camera which they stole and that's what they recorded the videos on. So if Professor Dyck hadn't had a camera, would they just not have recorded anything at all? The recordings seemed to be an important part of this for them, and yet it seemed like they didn't even plan to record videos at first. And, plus, did they really think the police would make their videos public?

I thought about that too! If the Professor didn’t have his camera, a lot more questions may never have been answered. It’s like they got the idea to tape some of their escapades only when they found that camera.

 

[cartman]

We know they found Kam’s damaged SIM card. IIRC it was reported he hadn’t used his phone since the 17th, Bryer’s last usage was the 12th.
But did they find the phones? I wonder if they used the cameras on their phones...

 

[Jan424]

Yes. But why bring it into the wilderness in the first place? It's not like he would need his wallet in general.

I really have no idea of when they died. I originally thought they probably didn't last more than a few days. But the fact that their remains were instantly recognizable when they were found, makes me wonder if they lasted up until a couple of days before they were found. That statement a couple of days before they were found when the police said they were confident they were no longer a threat, also makes me think the police heard the gunshots.

Possibly he just kept the wallet in the backpack along with everything else. When you say wilderness, I’m not sure if you mean the entire trip or just the bush. If just the bush, then either he just kept his stuff in one place and left it all there to be found or he wanted LE to know whose pack that was... like another “up yours”. Of course, LE would know anyway I’m sure.
I’m curious to the date of death.... they instantly recognized Kam’s beard... I’m not sure what happens to facial hair in the decomp process (awful to even think about). IMO

 

[NJSleuth91]

I thought about that too! If the Professor didn’t have his camera, a lot more questions may never have been answered. It’s like they got the idea to tape some of their escapades only when they found that camera.

Exactly...I don't know what to make of that.

We know they found Kam’s damaged SIM card. IIRC it was reported he hadn’t used his phone since the 17th, Bryer’s last usage was the 12th.
But did they find the phones? I wonder if they used the cameras on their phones...

The police said they don't know what happened to their phones, so I assume they didn't find the charred remains of their phones at any of the burn sites. They probably dumped them somewhere on the 17th, like in the garbage or something, and they were never found.

I find it interesting that apparently Bryer didn't talk to his family members after the murders (he last talked to his dad on the 12th and his grandma on either the 13th or 14th) whereas Kam did. I don't know what that means if anything.

Possibly he just kept the wallet in the backpack along with everything else. When you say wilderness, I’m not sure if you mean the entire trip or just the bush. If just the bush, then either he just kept his stuff in one place and left it all there to be found or he wanted LE to know whose pack that was... like another “up yours”. Of course, LE would know anyway I’m sure.
I’m curious to the date of death.... they instantly recognized Kam’s beard... I’m not sure what happens to facial hair in the decomp process (awful to even think about). IMO

It could have been an "up yours," same with leaving the Walmart ID near Professor Dyck's murder scene...although I'm sure the police could figure it out anyway.

Despite years of following unidentified persons cases, I also am not sure what happens to facial hair during decomposition. But I find it odd that there was much of anything of them left given the amount of insects in the area.

 

[SovereignSnake]

Somehow I missed the part when I read that article about Professor Dyck's license plate (singular...did they only remove one of the plates?) being dumped nearby. Did they really bring it into the woods with them, of all things? Did they really think the police wouldn't find it, or that removing it would make the car untraceable? Kam also brought his wallet with him and dumped it near the river. Like...why? These guys did so many things that made zero logical sense.

Like the racing stripe thing is so monumentally stupid as a method of disguise, and yet also a completely esoteric thing to think of doing. I would never even have considered that anyone would even come up with that idea. It's like something one of the characters on It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia would come up with.

Agree 100% also +1 for the Always Sunny reference! Anyway, I was wondering that too, if the reporter meant plate and forgot the "s?" But again, why bring them at all, unless they really did think removing plates was all you had to do and either didn't understand what a VIN was or thought perhaps they would get lucky and the RAV would burn hot enough to melt it and make the VIN unrecognizable? They did use gasoline again I'm assuming? Is that even possible to melt a VIN? Anyway, that was another good point. I have to say though, as ridiculous as the racing stripes were it did have a ring of artistic creative genius to it. @Jan424 you took the words right out off my keyboard about why Kam left his driver's license. I've been trying to use those dates to help narrow down the time of death. I think Kam may have forgotten he even had his wallet in his backpack or it was in the back pocket of a pair of jeans in his backpack. Perhaps even it was getting too heavy to lug all that heavy ammo and he just dumped the whole pack not realizing it was also in their along with his clothes. When I read about the little trail of items they were leaving behind, the first thing that came to mind was they may have been losing their mental acuity from hypothermia, dehydration and starvation. It sounds like they got rained on for days. Hypothermia definitely would have affected their reasoning and decision making which were already pretty terrible. Alternatively, yes, he may have concluded he no longer needed any of it; ammo, wallet, clothes.. Off to the river's edge we go. The dates that stick out the most for me are: July 28th (The evening they heard gunshots, then again that was York Landing correct?) and July 31st. @NJSleuth91 do you remember what day they said they were considered no longer a threat? Was that the 29th? I'm still leaning on the 31st but the 28th-29th resonates as well. My coworker is still firm on it being the 3rd/4th of August. Interesting, I always found that window of death they gave as so vague and open for interpretation. Almost like there was some embarrassment and regret it took so long to find them. "...may have lived for few a days...but had been dead for several..." One more quick aside that stood out, for all that driving, Kam never got pulled over for speeding and never hit a deer or a moose.