Canada - Lucas Fowler, Chynna Deese, and Leonard Dyck, all murdered, Alaska Hwy, BC, Jul 2019 #23

[NJSleuth91]

@DarkSkink

Come to think of it, I wonder if the "burn the vehicle we're driving and steal the victim's car" thing had been their planned M.O. all along. Because Lucas and Chynna's van was broken. So maybe the original plan had been to steal it and burn their truck at that time. But since it didn't work, they had to continue using the vehicle they had. I guess that's another one of those pesky unanswerable questions (well, unless the police found Kam's fingerprints or DNA on the steering wheel, keys, etc...I wonder how thoroughly they looked for that kind of forensic evidence).

 

[DarkSkink]

No. Only Bryer's dad was told they were going to Alberta, for reasons which are still unclear. Kam's family and the rest of Bryer's family were told they were going to Whitehorse to find work. Bryer's great-uncle stated in his interview that he was told on July 11th that they were going to Whitehorse.



Yeah I don't think so given the escalation in violence, especially considering Professor Dyck was well-known to be a pacifist and likely would have tried to resolve the situation non-violently if he could. That was a rage murder. Stealing the car was secondary, IMO. Like "well, this guy's car is 20 years newer than ours and doesn't have any apparent problems, might as well ditch our truck...and let's set it on fire while we're at it...."



Why, thank you



You know...we discussed a lot about how video games factored into their actions, but I don't think anyone ever mentioned GTA before. But come to think of it, this actually makes total sense! Their actions are very similar to how people play GTA. Even hiding out in the woods, like how people go to a remote area of the game map and hide out in the woods when the cops are chasing them until their "wanted level" goes down. Also, for Gen Z and millennials, GTA is sort of a cultural touchstone for "random, senseless spree of violence."

They were never specifically described in the media as being players of GTA, but come on, of course they must have played it...even I've played it and I never play video games....

It also wouldn't be the first crime spree which was logistically inspired by GTA. I've read stories of others in the news.

The first bits weren't supposed to be there. My phone or browser doesn't like the WS alerts and it resurrects things I have deleted. I was incorrect about the Alberta angle. You are right.

The GTA angle sort of fits. If they had a suicide pact to begin with and decided to go play GTA for real until, like you said, game over, then the haphazard, random running around at least makes some sort of sense.

Had they expressed in any of their video recordings that they were playing GTA for real, it might be a reason LE is worried about copycats or starting a trend.

This is one of the reasons why that sort of evidence is supposed to be available to the general public, so that society can perhaps understand and possibly prevent this sort of thing from happening again.

 

[DarkSkink]

So, I guess we should also ban all movies that have crimes in them and fairy tales as well. Because, in the past, serial killers and others have been inspired by those things (and other things, such as news stories, especially stories about war and conflict). The stories of Zodiac, Zebra and Manson apparently inspired others.

We'd have to also get rid of true crime as a literary genre. So, literature and news would have to go. There have been serial killers for a very long time (highly associated with anonymous living in cities). I wonder what inspired Jack the Ripper...

No. Things shouldn't be banned. People find inspiration based on their individual characteristics.

We can have the debate about how perhaps if GTA was banned, that they may have found inspiration from Peter Pan to go hunt Pirates, or from Humpty Dumpty to go push people off of high ledges.

With the witness accounts of B fixating on killing from a seemingly young age, the predisposition was potentially there as is, dare I say, 'typical'?

 

[MistyWaters]

.....

Have I seen this methodology before? Yes. Virtually every player online playing GTA. Get in your vehicle, head to the gun shop, upgrade your weapon, get back in your vehicle and drive until the urge hits to go pummel or kill someone for whatever reason. If your vehicle gets too damaged, pull someone out of theirs and beat or kill them and then get in and go find something else to do. If the police come, head to the water or airports and grab a boat, plane or helicopter.

Bryer apparently expressed at one point what if a video game happened in real life.

As goofy as it sounds, it may all be that simplistic and stupid.

Thanks for the great explanation of GTA! That’s very interesting and in a purely illogical way it might explain their equally illogical behaviour,

I notice in the game, an arrest is as good as dead.

“Stars displayed on the meter indicate the current wanted level (for example, at the maximum five-star level, police helicopters and SWAT teams swarm to lethally dispatch players)”
Grand Theft Auto V - Wikipedia

 

[DarkSkink]

@DarkSkink

Come to think of it, I wonder if the "burn the vehicle we're driving and steal the victim's car" thing had been their planned M.O. all along. Because Lucas and Chynna's van was broken. So maybe the original plan had been to steal it and burn their truck at that time. But since it didn't work, they had to continue using the vehicle they had. I guess that's another one of those pesky unanswerable questions (well, unless the police found Kam's fingerprints or DNA on the steering wheel, keys, etc...I wonder how thoroughly they looked for that kind of forensic evidence).

Smart.

They had no way of knowing that the van was broken down, other than the fact it was on the side of the road. It is just as likely someone pulled over for a nap.

I suppose when they bought the gas might be telling. I'll have to look at a timeline.

 

[NJSleuth91]

The GTA angle sort of fits. If they had a suicide pact to begin with and decided to go play GTA for real until, like you said, game over, then the haphazard, random running around at least makes some sort of sense.

I really think you may be onto something! This is a better explanation of why they decided to use this particular methodology than anything else I've heard or considered.

I'm actually kind of mad that I never thought of this before, LOL. Like it seems so obvious now.

Had they expressed in any of their video recordings that they were playing GTA for real, it might be a reason LE is worried about copycats or starting a trend.

<modsnip: STOP with all the insinuations / inferences of some big cover-up conspiracy by LE.>

Of course, it's also entirely possible that Kam and Bryer didn't even realize their spree killer methodology was similar to GTA, but had decided to do it that way subconsciously because, as I said, GTA is a cultural touchstone for "random, senseless spree of violence" among Gen Z and millennials.

This is one of the reasons why that sort of evidence is supposed to be available to the general public, so that society can perhaps understand and possibly prevent this sort of thing from happening again.

I support transparency in general...in my experience, secrecy only causes problems in the long run. Apparently not everyone agrees.

Smart.

They had no way of knowing that the van was broken down, other than the fact it was on the side of the road. It is just as likely someone pulled over for a nap.

I suppose when they bought the gas might be telling. I'll have to look at a timeline.

Hmm, you're right, they bought the gas can on the 15th after the murders. So perhaps that wasn't the original plan for Lucas and Chynna's murders.

However, the gas can indicates to me that clearly they had decided to burn their truck and take the victim's car the next time they killed someone. It wasn't like, their car happened to break down and they had to steal Professor Dyck's. It was a part of the plan since the 15th.

 

[poupetty77]

However, the gas can indicates to me that clearly they had decided to burn their truck and take the victim's car the next time they killed someone. It wasn't like, their car happened to break down and they had to steal Professor Dyck's. It was a part of the plan since the 15th.

SBM

(OK, I don't have a car or a driver licence so excuse me in advance if my question sound absolutely dumb)

I am clutching at straws here, but is there any chance that with a malfunctioning car and long distances to drive, they initially bought the gas can to make sure they
don't run out of gas before the next station? Is it gas you put in the car? Can you even put it from the can to the tank?

 

[DarkSkink]

SBM

(OK, I don't have a car or a driver licence so excuse me in advance if my question sound absolutely dumb)

I am clutching at straws here, but is there any chance that with a malfunctioning car and long distances to drive, they initially bought the gas can to make sure they
don't run out of gas before the next station? Is it gas you put in the car? Can you even put it from the can to the tank?

Yes. Typical gas can. There are pictures online. The gas can purchase may have been for legitimate reasons, but I'm inclined to think it was not.

 

[NJSleuth91]

Yeah considering that they attempted to murder a person a little over 24 hours later, and actually did murder a person and then set their own truck on fire two days after that, I'm going to Occam's-Razor that the gas can was purchased for nefarious purposes.

 

[LadyL]

These are obviously exceptional circumstances, and the lack of paper does not preclude one from creating a Will. Whether it is legally enforceable would be up to the courts. That is the catch.

AS's lawyer had to have some leverage to force the issue, otherwise, why would they agree to show it? Sympathy? They wouldn't show it until a lawyer got involved, so there was also a 'technically' legal reason for LE to relent.

AS's lawyer could have likely applied for a court order to see it based on the exceptional circumstances and the intention to argue the legitimacy of the Will.

itès not just a lack of paper- it has to be signed and witnessed by two people

 

[Sillybilly]

Please get back on topic, which means discussing the actual case and nothing but the case.

This thread is not for bickering or philosophizing about who's judgey and who's not,what should or should not be speculated on, etc.

 

[DarkSkink]

itès not just a lack of paper- it has to be signed and witnessed by two people

You missed the point. There are cases of non-standard Wills being accepted. There was one scratched into a tractor by a trapped farmer once if I remember the story correctly.

AS's lawyer could have likely argued in court AS was entitled to see the video in its entirety, based on the fact it contained a Will, and that they intended to have the Will declared as valid based on the extenuating circumstances.

I'm not saying that is what happened. I'm saying when proposed with that scenario, LE might have to tread a bit more carefully with their withholding stance. They could have threatened to take the story to the press, but I think it was in the press before he hired a lawyer. They relented when the lawyer got involved, so there was likely a legal argument that was made.

Whether the Will is valid or not doesn't matter. If you petition the court to declare it valid, you'll likely gain access to it.

 

[LadyL]

You missed the point. There are cases of non-standard Wills being accepted. There was one scratched into a tractor by a trapped farmer once if I remember the story correctly.

AS's lawyer could have likely argued in court AS was entitled to see the video in its entirety, based on the fact it contained a Will, and that they intended to have the Will declared as valid based on the extenuating circumstances.

I'm not saying that is what happened. I'm saying when proposed with that scenario, LE might have to tread a bit more carefully with their withholding stance. They could have threatened to take the story to the press, but I think it was in the press before he hired a lawyer. They relented when the lawyer got involved, so there was likely a legal argument that was made.

Whether the Will is valid or not doesn't matter. If you petition the court to declare it valid, you'll likely gain access to it.

I didnèt miss the point - I ignored it because I doubt itès validity. I would like to see examples of this occurring in Canada - I googled and could not find any.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

Showing remorse at that point would be like admitting it was dumb, admitting they screwed up, and looking weak for all to see.

SBM - it would also show defeat and the two of them were soldiers against everyone else. United front until the end.

 

[LoisLane]

You missed the point. There are cases of non-standard Wills being accepted. There was one scratched into a tractor by a trapped farmer once if I remember the story correctly.

AS's lawyer could have likely argued in court AS was entitled to see the video in its entirety, based on the fact it contained a Will, and that they intended to have the Will declared as valid based on the extenuating circumstances.

I'm not saying that is what happened. I'm saying when proposed with that scenario, LE might have to tread a bit more carefully with their withholding stance. They could have threatened to take the story to the press, but I think it was in the press before he hired a lawyer. They relented when the lawyer got involved, so there was likely a legal argument that was made.

Whether the Will is valid or not doesn't matter. If you petition the court to declare it valid, you'll likely gain access to it.

FWIW: https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/schmegelsky-mcleod-murders-video-1.5272080
“Leamon said she doesn't know if McLeod's family have also seen any portion of the video but she said that the battle to get access to the video — like every other part of the case — presented a set of unusual questions.

"Some of those questions have to do with the Wills and Estates Act and what constitutes a will in the province of British Columbia, and whether or not a holographic [video] will could be considered to be a valid will," she said.

Many of those questions are unsettled, but Leamon said by arriving at an agreement with RCMP, Al Schmegelsky was able to avoid litigation.”

 

[MistyWaters]

I didnèt miss the point - I ignored it because I doubt itès validity. I would like to see examples of this occurring in Canada - I googled and could not find any.

I agree and I think the RCMP’s delay in showing AS the 30 second video clip had more to do with his lawyer ensuring he participated in grief counselling prior to what he was about to hear.

It’s not about flicking a switch to the last images of a dead son without ensuring a parent is able to mentally deal with whatever was on the video and just because AS demanded to see it doesn’t mean nobody was concerned over any potential consequences.

 

[DarkSkink]

FWIW: https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/schmegelsky-mcleod-murders-video-1.5272080
“Leamon said she doesn't know if McLeod's family have also seen any portion of the video but she said that the battle to get access to the video — like every other part of the case — presented a set of unusual questions.

"Some of those questions have to do with the Wills and Estates Act and what constitutes a will in the province of British Columbia, and whether or not a holographic [video] will could be considered to be a valid will," she said.

Many of those questions are unsettled, but Leamon said by arriving at an agreement with RCMP, Al Schmegelsky was able to avoid litigation.”

Would you believe I was not aware of any of that?

Thanks for digging that up.

 

[LoisLane]

Would you believe I was not aware of any of that?

Thanks for digging that up.

Nope.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

They didn't need to kill because of a car's problem if they wanted to go home. They could have had the car repaired and go home. Or ask for help to one of their parents. They had (seemingly) gotten away with the first murders, I don't think the car problems justified Leonard Dyck's murder

Especially since the violence escalated as well.

 

[LadyL]

One thing Ièm curious about is what position Mr. Dyckès body was found in.